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    uneblinstu’s postgame chatter: vol 11; ed 18 - Michigan State


    uneblinstu
    • #6 Michigan St. 70 - Nebraska 64

      Cold shooting Huskers see their 20 game home streak snapped by a stingy Spartan squad

      DxJ_fATU8AAOmkb.jpg

       

    That was a tough one. Didn’t play well on offense. Also, MSU is the real deal. I’ll have more thoughts later. 

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    10 minutes ago, 49r said:

     

    But when should it stop?

     

    If the rule is that the clock stops when a basket is made when the clock reads 0:59.9 and after, then if the ball goes through the hoop at 1:00.0 it should keep running.

     

    If we were Michigan State fans debating it, we would be satisfied that the clock ran exactly according to the rules and it is fine.  Just because a rule didn't work in our favor on one (pretty rare) occasion doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad rule.

     

    I personally don't see any reason for us to complain.  Like I said before if we really wanted to stop the clock we needed to call the time out.

    The same issue arises in college football in the final quarter if a player runs out of bounds at 2:01 or 2:00, which requires that the officials restart the clock when the ball is ready for play. Had the player run out at 1:59, then the offense gets the full 40 seconds to run a play before the clock starts again. That's why the NFL's two-minute warning, which seems like just a commercial break opportunity, actually has some utility.

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    3 minutes ago, 49r said:

     

    Yes I presumed that would be the argument.  But that adds a layer of complexity I guess.

    Yeah, I don't know how to program scoreboard timers either, but I assume someone does.

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    56 minutes ago, 49r said:

     

    But when should it stop?

     

    If the rule is that the clock stops when a basket is made when the clock reads 0:59.9 and after, then if the ball goes through the hoop at 1:00.0 it should keep running.

     

    If we were Michigan State fans debating it, we would be satisfied that the clock ran exactly according to the rules and it is fine.  Just because a rule didn't work in our favor on one (pretty rare) occasion doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad rule.

     

    I personally don't see any reason for us to complain.  Like I said before if we really wanted to stop the clock we needed to call the time out.

    I could give a shit who it favored or not.  I don't think it is a bad rule because it didn't go our way.  It is a bad rule because it is a bad rule.  If the intent is to stop the clock under a minute on a made basket, then stop the clock under a minute after a made basket.  Doesn't seem all that complicated.  

    Edited by royalfan

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    Was at the game and wanted to sleep it off and give my thoughts in the AM

     

    -Shots that usually fall at home didn't tonight. A lot of rim outs. 

    -cassius Winston couldn't be stopped. He was going 100 MPH all night. Tom Allen got switched on him and I thought he did a decent job. 

    -nana run late was huge. Could build confidence in him to play more small ball 4. 

    -that was the first time in a long time I can say we belonged on the same court as MSU. 

    -this win would've been nice for confidence purposes, but it's not the end of the world. Rutgers on Monday, should run them over. Then OSU/Wisconsin at home too close the month to put us at 16 wins. 

     

    Overall, we hung around with a final 4 contender for 37 minutes. I'm not mad. Miles had these guys ready. Shots just didn't fall 

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    22 minutes ago, royalfan said:

    I could give a shit who it favored or not.  I don't think it is a bad rule because it didn't go our way.  It is a bad rule because it is a bad rule.  If the intent is to stop the clock under a minute on a made basket, then stop the clock under a minute after a made basket.  Doesn't seem all that complicated.  

     

    Fair enough.

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    8 minutes ago, thrasher31 said:

    -that was the first time in a long time I can say we belonged on the same court as MSU. 

     

    This is an important takeaway for me.  Our wins against them previously seemed more fluky than anything.  Last night even though we couldn't get over the hump, it felt like two pretty evenly matched opponents.  This is the type of game we'll need to figure out how to win to make it to the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament.

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    when we beat MSU in the past, we were just hotter and their teams had off nights. Last night, both teams played hard and well and it was still a respectable game. 

     

    NU looked like a legit Sweet 16 candidate. Sadly, they played a legit Final Four candidate playing one of their better games (and I've seen MSU much worse several times this year). 

     

     

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    Tough team Michigan State. I really felt like we hung in there and felt like we belonged attitude wise, so I don't feel bad there. We just had A LOT of shots rattle in and out early and that just seemed to roll on forward through the game. We didn't seem to adjust to the lack of whistles early and wound up throwing a lot of stuff up at the hoop hoping for a foul call.

    Our lack of depth is GRAVELY concerning. We fought our butt off on D to stay in the game and it leaves a real lack of late energy to put into a late run. Give MSU credit as they defended well. I know where the computer rankings put us, etc. but we are gonna be one drained team down the stretch if this type of rotation continues. We are going to get the benefit of the doubt this year given our SOS but we still have to put up a solid record. Will be an interesting stretch coming up.

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    24 minutes ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

    Tough team Michigan State. I really felt like we hung in there and felt like we belonged attitude wise, so I don't feel bad there. We just had A LOT of shots rattle in and out early and that just seemed to roll on forward through the game. We didn't seem to adjust to the lack of whistles early and wound up throwing a lot of stuff up at the hoop hoping for a foul call.

    Our lack of depth is GRAVELY concerning. We fought our butt off on D to stay in the game and it leaves a real lack of late energy to put into a late run. Give MSU credit as they defended well. I know where the computer rankings put us, etc. but we are gonna be one drained team down the stretch if this type of rotation continues. We are going to get the benefit of the doubt this year given our SOS but we still have to put up a solid record. Will be an interesting stretch coming up.

    There is some good news regarding our depth.  First is Tanner; he has shown he can provide a solid 10 to 15 minutes per game.  Nana has been ill.  His contributions since the start of the new year has been pretty much non-existence...until last night.  He looks healthy, and if so, he will be able to contribute 10 to 18 minutes per outing.  In fact, on certain nights, he may somewhat be a scoring machine.  Lastly, Amir is slowly but surely coming back into form.  When he totally back (likely within the next two weeks) he will bring his pre-mono game with him.  He will not contribute much from a scoring perspective, but all other facets of the game, he will contribute.  Right???

     

    rose colored glasses GIF by The Maury Show

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    I think the whole short bench/fatigue thing is blown way out of proportion.

     

    These are 18-22 year old athletes at their physical peak, some of you are making them sound like overweight middle aged men.

     

    You might be thinking "but they were gassed by the end of the game last night".  Well, no shit Sherlock, of course they were.  They were giving 110% effort for 40 minutes last night.  But in case you hadn't noticed Michigan State were just as gassed at the end of the game.  That was a heavyweight title fight out there. Guys are going to get fatigued.

     

    But they'll get some rest and be ready to go in a couple days.  If fatigue is a cumulative thing, I've got a secret for you.  It's cumulative for everyone else in the country too.  Getting 3 or 4 minutes a night out of the 8th and 9th guy on your bench isn't going to somehow magically make fatigue go away.  And not getting those handful of minutes isn't all of a sudden going to kill anyone, let alone world-class athletes.

     

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    43 minutes ago, 49r said:

    I think the whole short bench/fatigue thing is blown way out of proportion.

     

    These are 18-22 year old athletes at their physical peak, some of you are making them sound like overweight middle aged men.

     

    You might be thinking "but they were gassed by the end of the game last night".  Well, no shit Sherlock, of course they were.  They were giving 110% effort for 40 minutes last night.  But in case you hadn't noticed Michigan State were just as gassed at the end of the game.  That was a heavyweight title fight out there. Guys are going to get fatigued.

     

    But they'll get some rest and be ready to go in a couple days.  If fatigue is a cumulative thing, I've got a secret for you.  It's cumulative for everyone else in the country too.  Getting 3 or 4 minutes a night out of the 8th and 9th guy on your bench isn't going to somehow magically make fatigue go away.  And not getting those handful of minutes isn't all of a sudden going to kill anyone, let alone world-class athletes.

     

    Worth the read regarding tired legs/fatigue issues:

     

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5969183/

     

    The conclusion to this article, reads in part:

     

    "Implementing an athlete monitoring program that includes workload and fatigue monitoring and management in basketball may assist practitioners and sport coaches to prescribe appropriate workloads that optimize training adaptations, decrease accumulated fatigue and allow athletes to perform at their highest level." 

     

    It is my understanding that UNL is on the leading edge of this type of practice with our Athletic Performance Laboratory.  This UNL Department leverages CB3’s brain-imaging equipment and the performance lab’s sophisticated motion-tracking sensors, creating a more complete picture of what influences behavior and performance.  Perhaps our players and staff leveraged our technology in order to drive performance and cardio-vascular excellence.  Then again, I may have no clue what I am talking about.

     

    http://cb3.unl.edu/athletics-research-partnership/

    Edited by Huskerpapa

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    What’s the difference between college players averaging 38 minutes a game twice a week, and NBA players averaging 38 min a game three times a week? NBA has one or two commercial breaks a quarter, right? College has four between halves. I’m not trying to lead one way or the other here but the college players re younger and get more breaks-I do think fatigue is worth watching but I do not understand this hype that NU will have nothing left come tournament time. 

     

    And further of pount, I’d expect some (not sure how many) games from now until Purdue will allow for Thor, Brady, and the walkons to get minutes to an extent.  

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    20 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

    Worth the read regarding tired legs/fatigue issues:

     

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5969183/

     

    So, my take away from that is basically cumulative fatigue throughout a season is hard to quantify and little is known about the efficacy of management techniques.  

     

    However it is believed if managed properly, through proper training regimen, fatigue may be mitigated and made kind of a non-factor.  Am I way off on that?  Also, like I said before, if it's an issue for us then it is certainly going to be an issue for everyone else who plays about a 7 or 8 man rotation.  Which is pretty much everyone by this point in the season.

     

    Also, keep in mind that we have one of the oldest teams in the nation.  Presumably they will be better suited to handle the rigors of a full college season just due to experience.

    Edited by 49r

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    2 minutes ago, 49r said:

    However it is believed if managed properly, through proper training regimen, fatigue may be mitigated and made kind of a non-factor.  Am I way off on that?

    Spot on, that was my take-away as well.  We have a performance lab that is cutting edge.  I assume if we have leveraged it properly, our playing time and limited bench and so forth, is being managed.

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    23 hours ago, jimmykc said:

    Watching on tv it looked like we had the pumped up crowd we needed. However, enough people must have started leaving before our last little gasp that Raftery mentioned the game wasn't out of reach yet. Was there much of the mass exodus of previous years, or was he just overanalyzing? 

     

    I thought so. Watching people leave/crowds negative energy was disheartening. Maybe because it wasn’t the regular crowd in my section (who were silent). A lot of people were leaving, enough so to prompt some guy in the next section to angrily yell ‘GO BEAT THE TRAFFIC’ which was great. 

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    11 hours ago, 49r said:

    I think the whole short bench/fatigue thing is blown way out of proportion.

     

    These are 18-22 year old athletes at their physical peak, some of you are making them sound like overweight middle aged men.

     

    You might be thinking "but they were gassed by the end of the game last night".  Well, no shit Sherlock, of course they were.  They were giving 110% effort for 40 minutes last night.  But in case you hadn't noticed Michigan State were just as gassed at the end of the game.  That was a heavyweight title fight out there. Guys are going to get fatigued.

     

    But they'll get some rest and be ready to go in a couple days.  If fatigue is a cumulative thing, I've got a secret for you.  It's cumulative for everyone else in the country too.  Getting 3 or 4 minutes a night out of the 8th and 9th guy on your bench isn't going to somehow magically make fatigue go away.  And not getting those handful of minutes isn't all of a sudden going to kill anyone, let alone world-class athletes.

     

     

    Why doesn't every team in the country not full of superstars just go 6 deep all year then?

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    41 minutes ago, LNKtrnsplnt said:
    23 hours ago, jimmykc said:

    Watching on tv it looked like we had the pumped up crowd we needed. However, enough people must have started leaving before our last little gasp that Raftery mentioned the game wasn't out of reach yet. Was there much of the mass exodus of previous years, or was he just overanalyzing? 

     

    I thought so. Watching people leave/crowds negative energy was disheartening. Maybe because it wasn’t the regular crowd in my section (who were silent). A lot of people were leaving, enough so to prompt some guy in the next section to angrily yell ‘GO BEAT THE TRAFFIC’ which was great. 

     

    If you take the "don't hate the player, hate the game" mindset, it makes you wonder why the administration hasn't developed a way to direct the flow of spectator traffic within the arena.

     

    You can't force people to stay, but you can certainly force them to leave a different way off camera.

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    1 hour ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

     

    Why doesn't every team in the country not full of superstars just go 6 deep all year then?

     

    Because not every team in the country has a starting 5 like ours.  Most all teams don’t.

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    17 hours ago, jayschool said:

    I guess the answer is that if a basket is made in the second half at 1:06, 1:05, 1:04, 1:03, 1:02, 1:01 or even 1:00, that it ticks down to 59.9 and stops unless the ball has been inbounded before then, but doesn't require a whistle to stop play. The clock resumes when the ball is touched in bounds. In that case last night, MSU could have screwed around all they wanted until the ref started his count, and it wouldn't have cost Nebraska nearly 10 seconds of game time.

     

    jayschool always has the answer.

     

    Ok, not ALWAYS always, but ... you get what I mean.

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    16 hours ago, 49r said:

    I think the whole short bench/fatigue thing is blown way out of proportion.

     

    These are 18-22 year old athletes at their physical peak, some of you are making them sound like overweight middle aged men.

     

    You might be thinking "but they were gassed by the end of the game last night".  Well, no shit Sherlock, of course they were.  They were giving 110% effort for 40 minutes last night.  But in case you hadn't noticed Michigan State were just as gassed at the end of the game.  That was a heavyweight title fight out there. Guys are going to get fatigued.

     

    But they'll get some rest and be ready to go in a couple days.  If fatigue is a cumulative thing, I've got a secret for you.  It's cumulative for everyone else in the country too.  Getting 3 or 4 minutes a night out of the 8th and 9th guy on your bench isn't going to somehow magically make fatigue go away.  And not getting those handful of minutes isn't all of a sudden going to kill anyone, let alone world-class athletes.

     

    This 100 Percent!!

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    Do not recall which postgame interview it was with Miles on the Husker Radio Network but the subject of the team being tired came up. And Miles said something that Brandon Ubel told him. Ubel said they are college kids they have plenty of energy. Or something along those lines.

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    If you look at the KenPom bench minutes stats we are 348th in the country so yes we are playing the starters a lot.

    However, we're not playing a West Virginia/Illinois up and down sort of style of ball. Our tempo is 285th in the country.

     

    The team that is 349th in the country in bench minutes is St. Johns which plays at a faster pace that we do.

    The team this is 350th is Michigan and I would think there would be consensus here that John Beilein knows what he's doing.

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    2 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

    If you look at the KenPom bench minutes stats we are 348th in the country so yes we are playing the starters a lot.

    However, we're not playing a West Virginia/Illinois up and down sort of style of ball. Our tempo is 285th in the country.

     

    The team that is 349th in the country in bench minutes is St. Johns which plays at a faster pace that we do.

    The team this is 350th is Michigan and I would think there would be consensus here that John Beilein knows what he's doing.

     

    That’s pretty good info. Good research, Matt. 

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