bobcat402 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 I'll pump the sunshine bus, im not worried about the state of the program, as Norm's poll indicated(i voted a year away, with legit big) with the talent we have coming in next year, a year of molding for our current freshman, and the additions of gil, and hopefully a center i think we will be ok. Roby looks and sounds like the steal of the decade so far, something tells me Horne could be a close second. Quote
HuskerCager Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 I think Lee hit the nail on the head. IMO, the talent level is marginally better than the Doc years. And I'm beginning to think we took a small step backward this year. If the two teams below played 10 games, who would win the most? To be fair, we've only seen the first group (all but one) play as freshman only. So if there is a step backward, part of it is driven by experience.2015-16 newcomers 2014-15 attritionAndrew White III Terran Pettaway Glynn Watson Tarin SmithEd Morrow David RiversMichael Jacobsen Moses AbrahamJack McVeigh Leslee Smith Evelyn Bakari Walt Pitchford Quote
hhcmatt Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 IMO, the talent level is marginally better than the Doc years. Watson didn’t let Miles’ wrath distract him on offense. He showed crossover dribbles, seeing-eye passes and start-and-stop moves not seen from a Husker point guard since Tyronn Lue in the late 1990s. I don't necessarily have a problem with Lee raking us over the coals on some stuff and he's absolutely right when he says you need at least one NBA-type guy to be competitive. However, "marginally better than the Doc years" recruiting-wise is comical. Doc was quick-fixing it with JUCOs and beating out Utah State for guys....we're program building beating out other peer schools for players. We just need to keep on the upward trend and put together a roster that is a complete team. bobcat402, Silverbacked1, Red Don and 1 other 4 Quote
HuskerCager Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 IMO, the talent level is marginally better than the Doc years. Watson didn’t let Miles’ wrath distract him on offense. He showed crossover dribbles, seeing-eye passes and start-and-stop moves not seen from a Husker point guard since Tyronn Lue in the late 1990s. I don't necessarily have a problem with Lee raking us over the coals on some stuff and he's absolutely right when he says you need at least one NBA-type guy to be competitive. However, "marginally better than the Doc years" recruiting-wise is comical. Doc was quick-fixing it with JUCOs and beating out Utah State for guys....we're program building beating out other peer schools for players. We just need to keep on the upward trend and put together a roster that is a complete team. #1, Lee didn't rake anyone - including Miles - over the coals. He just made an insightful observation that the talent level isn't all it's cracked up to be. #2, either you or I are correct on Miles' talent level versus Doc. Miles record through his first 108 games is 54-54. Doc's record through that same number of games was 61-47. Yikes - if Miles has really surrounded himself with much better talent than Doc, then he must be a horrible coach. Look, I'm not bashing Miles - just read what I posted yesterday. I do think, though, that people are reading too much into the "Top 100" status of some of these players. They are good, but not off-the-charts good, compared to what we had yesterday. Quote
hhcmatt Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 #2, either you or I or correct on Mile's talent level versus Doc. Miles record through his first 108 games here is 54-54. Doc's record through that same number of games was 61-47. Yikes, if Miles has really surrounded himself with much better talent than Doc, then he must be a horrible coach. Doc was/is a better coach...coaching wasn't his problem here. Him racking up non-con creampuff wins while never finishing above .500 in conference was more of the problem. Yeah, we have further to go but I wouldn't call the difference between being laughably outmatched to being outmatched marginal. Quote
HuskerCager Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 I do agree with you, Dimes, that Doc's over-reliance on JUCOs wasn't going to get the program over the hump. TM has been more disciplined in staying away from those players (almost to a fault) than any coach we've had in a long time. Let's just hope that we can get find muscle inside sooner than later. Quote
hskr4life Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Tim Miles First 3 Recruiting Classes Doc Sadler Nick Fuller Alonzo Edwards Tai Webster Brandon Richardson Nathan Hawkins Cookie Miller Leslee Smith Alex Chapman Steve Harley Shang Ping Ade Dagundero Toney McCray Rishawn Norwood Jacob Hammond Eshaunte Jones Tarin Smith Christopher Neimann Ed Marrow Christian Standhardinger Glynn Watson Rayes Gallegos Michael Jacobson Brandon Ubel Bakari Evelyn Adrian Coleman Jack McVeigh Quincy Hankins Lance Jeter Myles Holley 1. Check out that attrition in the first three years under Doc. Records do not explain recruiting due to a number of factors. Take those three recruiting classes for Doc and put them in the Big 10 with the schedule we had under Miles. 2. I would say the first year recruiting classes would be about even. Maybe a little lean towards Doc (but there were so many more recruits who also didn't pan out. The 2nd year recruiting classes certainly were better for Miles though Smith is no longer here. In the long run, Miles 3rd year of signees should be better than Docs. I would say Marrow, Watson, McVeigh better than their positions opposite them. Jacobson I would say would be about where Ubel was when he finished. Evelyn is no worse than a Myles Holley. 3. I know star rankings do not mean squat, but high school expert wise, people were much higher on Miles first three classes than Docs. Remember, this is only Miles 3rd year and he is recruiting guys like this. It wasn't until Doc's last year that he got Shavon, Benny, ect. Remember also that Miles got Sergej (big man that just didn't pan out) and Biggs (Lot of potential, but a teammate problem) out of that class as well. Silverbacked1 1 Quote
bball23 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 I was going to avoid posting in this thread, but wanted to chime in. I think almost all of you have good points, positive and negative. Here is why I trust Miles. 1) He has given this team a pulse. Look, I understand that the new arena is nice, the new area around the arena is nice, but you still have to get butts in the seats. Even on a "bad night" over 10,000 people are showing up. At the Devaney, that would be a season high most years. 2) The talent is better. I still think this group has a lot of talent on the court. And it shows on some nights (vs Miami, vs Cincy, vs Rhode Island). 3) Miles is a promoter to the program, and I think this will continue to lead to good recruits. Even next week we are getting that ATM transfer to at least come here. I just don't know if other coaches of ours in the past would even get them on campus. I know the Samford loss just irks people to no end (myself included). But at the same time, I see how good we can play (see above). We live in such a "football State" that people tend to over-react certain wins, and over-react certain losses. The bottom line is we play 32 games. We will have some nights where we look really good. We will have some nights we look really bad. Look at this year alone. Wisconsin two bad losses at home Minnesota two bad losses at home GTown back to back bad home losses I mean, you can really go on and on. That's basketball. Some nights the shots don't fall, some nights they do. Now, I will say that the Samford game was more than just missing shots. I felt that for the Samford game, that was the first game where I didn't see or feel any flow to that game. Offensive or defensive. At the same time, had we not gone 0-8 on FT's to start the game, we are up 8-12 points at half and that game may be completely different. You could see last games guys were pressing as it got later and later into the game. Shots weren't falling and guys looked timid shooting them. That happens. These next 3 games for NU will I think tell us a lot about this year. We need to go at WORST 2-1, and would LOVE 3-0. Will be very interested to see how these next 3 go. bobcat402, Silverbacked1 and jaimes2000 3 Quote
hskr4life Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 and how quickly people forget that we lost to Maryland Baltimore County during Doc's tenure as well.... Quote
Norm Peterson Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 and how quickly people forget that we lost to Maryland Baltimore County during Doc's tenure as well.... We were playing 5 on 8 that game, so ... Quote
Bugeaters1 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 But Miles makes to much money to lose to these teams so say some. Silverbacked1 and hhcmatt 1 1 Quote
soxnskers Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 and how quickly people forget that we lost to Maryland Baltimore County during Doc's tenure as well.... We were playing 5 on 8 that game, so ... We play 5 on 8 most games it feels like lately...but maybe that's just my feeling on that matter. Bugeaters1 1 Quote
Norm Peterson Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Tim Miles First 3 Recruiting Classes Doc Sadler Nick Fuller Alonzo Edwards Tai Webster Brandon Richardson Nathan Hawkins Cookie Miller Leslee Smith Alex Chapman Steve Harley Shang Ping Ade Dagundero Toney McCray Rishawn Norwood Jacob Hammond Eshaunte Jones Tarin Smith Christopher Neimann Ed Marrow Christian Standhardinger Glynn Watson Rayes Gallegos Michael Jacobson Brandon Ubel Bakari Evelyn Adrian Coleman Jack McVeigh Quincy Hankins Lance Jeter Myles Holley Your charts aren't quite right. You're missing a couple on Doc's side. He brought in Sek Henry when he started, and he signed Jorge Brian Diaz the same fall that he brought in Christopher Niemann. Remember the snafu with admissions on Jorge? He had to redshirt a year. So he and Ubel were freshmen at the same time. You also didn't get Sergej Vucetic or Deverell Biggs on the Miles side. Ryan Anderson and Sek Henry were to Doc kind of what Benny Parker and Shavon Shields were to Miles. Edited: Actually, Ryan was analogous to Benny and Shavon. Sek was more analogous to Sergej and Deverell. hhcmatt 1 Quote
huskerbaseball13 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 But Miles makes to much money to lose to these teams so say some. This is correct. If we are going to get where we need to be...losing to teams like Incarnate Word and Samford are major killers. It didn't hurt us last year because we won 13 games...it likely won't hurt us this year because it's unlikely we will be dancing. But, in the next few years where expecations will be raised by most(not you)....we need to win the cupcake games. I would venture to guess Coach Miles agrees with that. Bugeaters1 1 Quote
swmckewon Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Just a bit of journalistic hyperbole, Lee. Samford has an equally talented team? UNO has three players who could start at NU? I suppose Lee is theoretically correct, but then I could write a column for the OWH, but I am not. UNO has one starter, maybe two that could start for NU, hyperbole is OWH strong suit. Thurman, Patterson and White could, in theory, all start, though Thurman plays Shields' position, in a sense. That may not be true a few years, but it is right this minute. And Hollins would play some minutes, too. Remember, Hollins and Thurman were part of the greatest HS team in state history. None of them ended up at Nebraska. Quote
hskr4life Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Tim Miles First 3 Recruiting Classes Doc Sadler Nick Fuller Alonzo Edwards Tai Webster Brandon Richardson Nathan Hawkins Cookie Miller Leslee Smith Alex Chapman Steve Harley Shang Ping Ade Dagundero Toney McCray Rishawn Norwood Jacob Hammond Eshaunte Jones Tarin Smith Christopher Neimann Ed Marrow Christian Standhardinger Glynn Watson Rayes Gallegos Michael Jacobson Brandon Ubel Bakari Evelyn Adrian Coleman Jack McVeigh Quincy Hankins Lance Jeter Myles Holley Your charts aren't quite right. You're missing a couple on Doc's side. He brought in Sek Henry when he started, and he signed Jorge Brian Diaz the same fall that he brought in Christopher Niemann. Remember the snafu with admissions on Jorge? He had to redshirt a year. So he and Ubel were freshmen at the same time. You also didn't get Sergej Vucetic or Deverell Biggs on the Miles side. Ryan Anderson and Sek Henry were to Doc kind of what Benny Parker and Shavon Shields were to Miles. Edited: Actually, Ryan was analogous to Benny and Shavon. Sek was more analogous to Sergej and Deverell. I accounted for Sergej and Biggs in my comments. I also started with each coaches first full year of recruiting class. Hence no Shavon or Benny for Miles Quote
Norm Peterson Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Just a bit of journalistic hyperbole, Lee. Samford has an equally talented team? UNO has three players who could start at NU? I suppose Lee is theoretically correct, but then I could write a column for the OWH, but I am not. UNO has one starter, maybe two that could start for NU, hyperbole is OWH strong suit. Thurman, Patterson and White could, in theory, all start, though Thurman plays Shields' position, in a sense. That may not be true a few years, but it is right this minute. And Hollins would play some minutes, too. Remember, Hollins and Thurman were part of the greatest HS team in state history. None of them ended up at Nebraska. Or Creighton. Or anywhere else good. TheKamdyMan 1 Quote
hhcmatt Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Just a bit of journalistic hyperbole, Lee. Samford has an equally talented team? UNO has three players who could start at NU? I suppose Lee is theoretically correct, but then I could write a column for the OWH, but I am not. UNO has one starter, maybe two that could start for NU, hyperbole is OWH strong suit. Thurman, Patterson and White could, in theory, all start, though Thurman plays Shields' position, in a sense. That may not be true a few years, but it is right this minute. And Hollins would play some minutes, too. Remember, Hollins and Thurman were part of the greatest HS team in state history. None of them ended up at Nebraska. Or Creighton. Or anywhere else good. Which player from Omaha Central is going to be playing in the NBA? In the context of Lee's story, trading those guys for players currently on our roster is akin to shuffling chairs on the Titanic. Red Don and HB 2 Quote
huskerbaseball13 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Just a bit of journalistic hyperbole, Lee. Samford has an equally talented team? UNO has three players who could start at NU? I suppose Lee is theoretically correct, but then I could write a column for the OWH, but I am not. UNO has one starter, maybe two that could start for NU, hyperbole is OWH strong suit. Thurman, Patterson and White could, in theory, all start, though Thurman plays Shields' position, in a sense. That may not be true a few years, but it is right this minute. And Hollins would play some minutes, too. Remember, Hollins and Thurman were part of the greatest HS team in state history. None of them ended up at Nebraska. Or Creighton. Or anywhere else good. Which player from Omaha Central is going to be playing in the NBA? In the context of Lee's story, trading those guys for players currently on our roster is akin to shuffling chairs on the Titanic. That...and guys like Thurman or Hollins does not cure any of our ills. Unless they grow 5-8 inches thru their college career..and only one is above the Mendoza line from deep....barely. bobcat402 1 Quote
Fullbacksympathy Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 I think the idea that this program could be turned around quickly is an absurdity. Miles reminds me a lot of Danny Nee--excellent recruiter with a little to be desired on the in-game coaching end. That said, he is a young coach with a winning past, and I'm thrilled we have him. We can say that next year he'll have all of his players, sure, but I think he needs the opportunity to develop those players. If you look at his recruiting turnaround, we have freshman at positions 1-4 that are an upgrade over virtually any recruit we've had at each of those positions since Nee. That's pretty incredible. Give him some time to recruit a true center (which may happen before 2nd semester from the looks of things). Then we'll have the most talented 1-5 roster we've had, maybe ever. Give him three years to coach the players that he handpicked for his system. I think Miles spoiled us early with an insane year, but I think what we're seeing now is a more realistic march toward success. There are going to be lumps because Miles is a young coach and inexperienced at the major conference level, but the body of work--particularly on the recruiting end--is still quite positive in my mind. I think you are pretty much dead on for the most part with this post...outside of Miles being a young coach. Miles will and deserves a chance to develop the young recruits he has brought in...but, with the talent upgrade it's fair to expect better results eventually...right? Losing to Samford is a punch in the gut and surprising but the fact that this team looks good some nights and bad some nights is not so surprising. I said before the season our record will probably not be great....and that appears to be the case again, but we should see some improvement in play going forward as the freshman get more acclimated to college basketball. Miles really needs to hit some home runs on down the stretch on the recruiting trail and land a big man that will help right away and another shooter. Yes, with the talent upgrade it's fair to expect better results, but not when they're all true freshmen. Erick Strickland and Eric Piatkowski were phenomenal recruits who came off the bench as freshmen sparks. They became dominant players eventually, but not right away. You have to allow one great recruiting class to grow and create a reloading concept. Right now, we have a ton of young talent, but because we lack quality upperclassmen outside of Shields and White, there isn't any position to reload. Just look at our freshmen now and the recruits coming in. Now think about our current freshmen as seniors and our incoming recruiting class as juniors followed by similarly quality sophomores and freshmen. It's an entirely different planet than we're on now. ShortDust, 49r, jaimes2000 and 1 other 4 Quote
Fullbacksympathy Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Just a bit of journalistic hyperbole, Lee. Samford has an equally talented team? UNO has three players who could start at NU? I suppose Lee is theoretically correct, but then I could write a column for the OWH, but I am not. Agreed. That's one of the worst articles I've read in a long time. Absolute garbage. Miles has done an A + job recruiting. The jury is out on coaching/development, not the talent. Quote
Hooper Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Just a bit of journalistic hyperbole, Lee. Samford has an equally talented team? UNO has three players who could start at NU? I suppose Lee is theoretically correct, but then I could write a column for the OWH, but I am not. Agreed. That's one of the worst articles I've read in a long time. Absolute garbage. Miles has done an A + job recruiting. The jury is out on coaching/development, not the talent. You can't, in my view, give him an A+ rating when he's come up short on scholarship numbers for the past two years and two recent opponents -- Abilene Christian and Samford -- both had better big men than we did. Miles has stepped up the recruiting big-time vs. what Doc and Barry were doing, but A+ worthy it is not. huskerbaseball13, hhcmatt and jaimes2000 3 Quote
Silverbacked1 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Just a bit of journalistic hyperbole, Lee. Samford has an equally talented team? UNO has three players who could start at NU? I suppose Lee is theoretically correct, but then I could write a column for the OWH, but I am not.UNO has one starter, maybe two that could start for NU, hyperbole is OWH strong suit. Thurman, Patterson and White could, in theory, all start, though Thurman plays Shields' position, in a sense. That may not be true a few years, but it is right this minute. And Hollins would play some minutes, too. Remember, Hollins and Thurman were part of the greatest HS team in state history. None of them ended up at Nebraska. I don't remember either of those guys on that Howells team from the 70's jdostal 1 Quote
hhcmatt Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Just a bit of journalistic hyperbole, Lee. Samford has an equally talented team? UNO has three players who could start at NU? I suppose Lee is theoretically correct, but then I could write a column for the OWH, but I am not. UNO has one starter, maybe two that could start for NU, hyperbole is OWH strong suit. "It’s a problem when the second-year coach at Samford has at least equal talent as Nebraska." What? Does that mean that Texas Southern has talent equal to Michigan State because they beat them at home last year? Fullbacksympathy and ShortDust 2 Quote
Silverbacked1 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Posted December 22, 2015 Just a bit of journalistic hyperbole, Lee. Samford has an equally talented team? UNO has three players who could start at NU? I suppose Lee is theoretically correct, but then I could write a column for the OWH, but I am not.UNO has one starter, maybe two that could start for NU, hyperbole is OWH strong suit. Thurman, Patterson and White could, in theory, all start, though Thurman plays Shields' position, in a sense. That may not be true a few years, but it is right this minute. And Hollins would play some minutes, too. Remember, Hollins and Thurman were part of the greatest HS team in state history. None of them ended up at Nebraska. I'll ask, how many of our guys would start for UNO? Just something I would like to hear what you would think. Bugeaters1 1 Quote
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