Should severely slumping sophomore Shavon Shields sit?

[throwback]

In the LJS preview today, it said he has played with the knee injury for 2 games, so I guess that means he may have injured it vs Iowa or at practice before the Ohio St game. So that wouldn't explain some of the issues during the latter part of the non-conf season. 

 

I thought they said on the post game that he played 37 minutes today, and he seemed to rebound pretty well and wasn't afraid to mix it up inside, so he didn't appear to be favoring the knee. He just isn't scoring & is struggling from the FT line. Got to be more of a confidence thing.

[Huskerpapa]

Simple answer, we need Shavon.  Let him play through the slump, we will be benefit in the long run.

[Miles ahead of the rest]

Someone explain to me how this kid went 12-12 from the line against FGCU? Because since that game, he has been well below average every single game from the stripe it seems like

[colhusker]

Shields is slumping worse on the basketball floor than my sex life in college.

[PimpMario]

I actually logged on to make a thread entitled "bench shields."

We need to do something to get him going. If his knee is banged up then maybe he needs some rest.

[swmckewon]

Yeah, the same peeps who had their panties in a wad over Standhardinger not playing would have had their knickers equally twisted if Doc had let him play through struggles while not giving those minutes to someone else.

I dunno about that. 

 

One in his whole career at Nebraska, Dinger played more than 30 minutes. He went 25/8/3. 

 

Doc didn't want to orient his team around Dinger. He wanted to orient it around Jeter. As nice of a player as Jeter was, that won Nebraska exactly zero NCAA or NIT games. 

[49r]

 

Yeah, the same peeps who had their panties in a wad over Standhardinger not playing would have had their knickers equally twisted if Doc had let him play through struggles while not giving those minutes to someone else.

I dunno about that. 

 

One in his whole career at Nebraska, Dinger played more than 30 minutes. He went 25/8/3. 

 

Doc didn't want to orient his team around Dinger. He wanted to orient it around Jeter. As nice of a player as Jeter was, that won Nebraska exactly zero NCAA or NIT games. 

 

 

Point is, he's "damned if you don't damned if you do".  The head coach will ALWAYS be second guessed.  Especially in the middle of 5 game losing streaks.

[huskerbaseball13]

 

 

Yeah, the same peeps who had their panties in a wad over Standhardinger not playing would have had their knickers equally twisted if Doc had let him play through struggles while not giving those minutes to someone else.

I dunno about that. 

 

One in his whole career at Nebraska, Dinger played more than 30 minutes. He went 25/8/3. 

 

Doc didn't want to orient his team around Dinger. He wanted to orient it around Jeter. As nice of a player as Jeter was, that won Nebraska exactly zero NCAA or NIT games. 

 

 

Point is, he's "damned if you don't damned if you do".  The head coach will ALWAYS be second guessed.  Especially in the middle of 5 game losing streaks.

 

 

I think Sam's point is Standhardinger was never really given a chance.  If Doc gave Dinger the minutes he should have and Diner produced I doubt anybody would be bitching about his playing time.  And you're correct...the end result always comes back to winning.  And despite some posters infatuation with him Doc didn't win.....it's far too early to say one way or the other if Miles will win here. If we were playing well this issue probably wouldnt be discussed.  But we arent...and Rivers is sitting on the bench all the while we have to watch Shields struggle each and every single game to the tune of shooting a whooping 25% from the field.  Whats the harm in giving Rivers a shot at some of those minutes?  It may be exactly what Shields needs.  At this point I think it would be wise for Miles to exhaust every option.  And yes, Miles knows way more about basketball than me and he knows his team far better than I...but I also recognize this guy is not Coach K and he is not untouchable.  There are going to be things he does that are probably incorrect or wrong.  Giving Shields 37 minutes right now is probably one of those things....he wants to talk about Rivers production...ID LOVE to hear his thoughts on Shields stats the past few weeks.  If Rivers comes back and struggles...Shields will be there to eat up those minutes again.   

[Dean Smith]

 

Yeah, the same peeps who had their panties in a wad over Standhardinger not playing would have had their knickers equally twisted if Doc had let him play through struggles while not giving those minutes to someone else.

I dunno about that. 

 

One in his whole career at Nebraska, Dinger played more than 30 minutes. He went 25/8/3. 

 

Doc didn't want to orient his team around Dinger. He wanted to orient it around Jeter. As nice of a player as Jeter was, that won Nebraska exactly zero NCAA or NIT games. 

 

I watched those teams. I don't remember them being oriented around Jeter. And there were real reasons why he didn't not want to put to much dependence on Dinger. Simply put he could not be counted on.

 

Shields brings so much more to the table than just scoring. Even with the drop in point production he would be the last of the starters I would sit. Yes, I agree he needs to attack more on his drives and miss fewer layups. Do not attack the rim, but attack the nose of the shot blocker. Going through the nose of the defender is the best way to finish or draw the foul. Fix that and he goes back to being our best player. I still think at this point he is still our most valuable player. (yes even though Pettaway scores way more points at this time)

[PimpMario]

I don't see how anyone can argue that Shields shouldn't sit at the very least to start the game.  I don't think anyone is saying he shouldn't get more than 10 minutes a game.  

 

But if you don't start Shields it sends a message to him.

[49r]

I don't see how anyone can argue that Shields shouldn't sit at the very least to start the game.  I don't think anyone is saying he shouldn't get more than 10 minutes a game.  

 

But if you don't start Shields it sends a message to him.

 

Is it the right message?  And what is the message, anyway?

[huskerbaseball13]

I don't see how anyone can argue that Shields shouldn't sit at the very least to start the game. I don't think anyone is saying he shouldn't get more than 10 minutes a game.

But if you don't start Shields it sends a message to him.

Is it the right message? And what is the message, anyway?

Maybe it's the same message being sent to Rivers? Maybe it was coach speak but per Miles..Rivers is on the bench because of his production. Right now, I would love to hear Miles thoughts on Shields production...can't hide 25% from the field. And if his lackluster play is due to being unhealthy then he most certainly shouldn't be playing 37 minutes.

[uneblinstu]

Sitting someone on the bench isn't a magical solution.  Also, it seems like he's still contributing defensively. He's the teams second leading rebounder and scorer, believe it or not.  He's not as efficient of a scorer as Biggs is, perhaps, but he's still finding other ways to help the team. Showing you're still confident in a guy who has shown he's got the ability to play at this level can be just as powerful of a message as sitting the guy on the bench.

[PimpMario]

Sitting someone on the bench isn't a magical solution.  Also, it seems like he's still contributing defensively. He's the teams second leading rebounder and scorer, believe it or not.  He's not as efficient of a scorer as Biggs is, perhaps, but he's still finding other ways to help the team. Showing you're still confident in a guy who has shown he's got the ability to play at this level can be just as powerful of a message as sitting the guy on the bench.

 

It isn't a magical solution.  But doing nothing is clearly not working.

 

And at the end of the day this "slump" may not end this year or the rest of his career.

 

But sitting him is a pretty simple and often employed motivational/minute distribution strategy that every coach should employe from time to time.

 

You have to eventually try something.

[uneblinstu]

It seems like a pretty bit assumption to me to think that nothing's being done to work on his struggles.  Unless you've got more access than the rest of us, I'm going to operate under the premise that they're not doing nothing. Miles has already shown he doesn't use the same tactics for every player. Frankly, I haven't seen much from any one else to suggest that they're going to give us more than what we're getting from Shields, who, I'll note again, is the second leading scorer and rebounder on the team. It's not like we've got a lot of guys behind him that might be viable options.

[PimpMario]

It seems like a pretty bit assumption to me to think that nothing's being done to work on his struggles.  Unless you've got more access than the rest of us, I'm going to operate under the premise that they're not doing nothing. Miles has already shown he doesn't use the same tactics for every player. Frankly, I haven't seen much from any one else to suggest that they're going to give us more than what we're getting from Shields, who, I'll note again, is the second leading scorer and rebounder on the team. It's not like we've got a lot of guys behind him that might be viable options.

 

What?  After the Michigan game they asked him about Shields and he said that Shields will be fine.  They pressed him on if anything was being done and he said something like "Shields will work through his slump."  Miles called it a slump.

[huskerbaseball13]

It seems like a pretty bit assumption to me to think that nothing's being done to work on his struggles. Unless you've got more access than the rest of us, I'm going to operate under the premise that they're not doing nothing. Miles has already shown he doesn't use the same tactics for every player. Frankly, I haven't seen much from any one else to suggest that they're going to give us more than what we're getting from Shields, who, I'll note again, is the second leading scorer and rebounder on the team. It's not like we've got a lot of guys behind him that might be viable options.

And that stat may sum up why we are the team we are. Shields is shooting a meager 31% from the field against teams with a pulse. It's nice to know he can bring it against the likes of teams like te Citadel but more importantly it would be nice if he played well against solid opponents. Let's hope Miles and company finish solid on the recruiting season.

[uneblinstu]

 

It seems like a pretty bit assumption to me to think that nothing's being done to work on his struggles.  Unless you've got more access than the rest of us, I'm going to operate under the premise that they're not doing nothing. Miles has already shown he doesn't use the same tactics for every player. Frankly, I haven't seen much from any one else to suggest that they're going to give us more than what we're getting from Shields, who, I'll note again, is the second leading scorer and rebounder on the team. It's not like we've got a lot of guys behind him that might be viable options.

 

What?  After the Michigan game they asked him about Shields and he said that Shields will be fine.  They pressed him on if anything was being done and he said something like "Shields will work through his slump."  Miles called it a slump.

 

So, that means we have a better option? Miles isn't going to tell us everything.  He doesn't need to, either.  "Work through his slump" could mean any number of things.

[PimpMario]

I think you may be thinking that I am arguing that Shields should play less.  I am not.  He could come off the bench and play 35 minutes.  If a bench player is on fire you don't take him out of the game.

 

Simply that sitting him could help in 2 ways:

 

1. It might be a motivational ploy to get him going.  Show some toughness on both ends of the floor.

 

2. The second way that no one explicitly stated but I have consider is sometimes a change of role can really help you.  Coming off the bench might help in several ways.  Maybe it is less stressful and won't try as hard.  Maybe the change in routine helps.  Maybe coming in with different subs and/or a new combination of players makes something click.  Maybe it will give him some urgency.

[throwback]

Shavon isn't showing toughness now? The nine rebounds he pulled down while wrestling with Hammons Sunday say differently, including the elbow he took in the head from Hammons but stayed in the game. Not to mention gutting it out with a knee problem. 

 

Yes he's struggling to score right now. But he does so many other things for the team that sitting him would send the exact wrong message. It would look more like a panicky move by the coaches.

 

This thread is making my head hurt. 

[PimpMario]

Shavon isn't showing toughness now? The nine rebounds he pulled down while wrestling with Hammons Sunday say differently, including the elbow he took in the head from Hammons but stayed in the game. Not to mention gutting it out with a knee problem. 

 

Good point.

 

How do we win?

[hskr4life]

 

Shavon isn't showing toughness now? The nine rebounds he pulled down while wrestling with Hammons Sunday say differently, including the elbow he took in the head from Hammons but stayed in the game. Not to mention gutting it out with a knee problem. 

 

Good point.

 

How do we win?

 

 

If your thinking Shavon is the reason we are without a W in conference play, you are off a bit.  The losses we have are due to team errors.  Does Shavon have every turnover, every bad shot, and every missed freethrow?  The losses fall on the team, and not just one individual player.  Sure sitting someone may lead to a win, but if your saying Shavon sitting will give us an automatic win or something to that effect you are mistaken.

[hhcmatt]

If Shields is hurt to the point where sitting a game will help him heal up, then he should do so.  It doesn't seem like that is the case though.

 

Shavon had two rough games against Iowa and Cincinnati.  He's responded by shooting less. Isn't that what was being requested of Petteway earlier?

Against FGCU he elevated easily for a dunk. Against Purdue with a similar chance he settled for a layup and it was blocked.  He's not hobbled but he's probably not 100%.  Miles is still having him guard some of the better players on the other team.

 

Shavon is one of our more talented players.

He seems to be doing what Miles is asking of him which is why he plays 30+ minutes when he's not in foul trouble.

Bring him off the bench? Is it bad joke day because I have one.

 

Knock Knock.

Who's there?

Lettuce.

Lettuce who?

Lettuce not play one of the best players and best team players on the team because he's had some rough games.

[NUdiehard]

Shavon isn't showing toughness now? The nine rebounds he pulled down while wrestling with Hammons Sunday say differently, including the elbow he took in the head from Hammons but stayed in the game. Not to mention gutting it out with a knee problem. 

 

Yes he's struggling to score right now. But he does so many other things for the team that sitting him would send the exact wrong message. It would look more like a panicky move by the coaches.

 

This thread is making my head hurt. 

+1000

 

This thread is giving me a splitting headache!  The very notion of benching Shavon for "motivational" purposes is beyond preposterous IMO.  You cannot lump all players and all individuals into one big lump.   Just b/c benching certain players may work in certain situations does not mean it is a one size fits all.  By all accounts, Shavon is a class-act person, teammate and player.  He is a guy that is highly motivated in everything he does.  He doesn't need some drill sergeant yelling in his face or threatening punishment to get him going on anything in life.  He is  a 4.0 student in the classroom.  He is a student of the game.  There was a recent article by Walt in which Walt describes how he used to just watch game file through one time.  He then contrasted that with Shavon and Terran, who both are meticulous in watching film, pausing, rewinding, re-watching, etc.  By all accounts, Shavon has always been a leader, both verbally and by example.  By  all accounts, he and Terran are the hardest workers on the team, in practice, in the weight room, after practice, before practice, etc.  Does anyone really believe that benching him will somehow make him practice harder or work harder or "get it" more than he already does now? 

 

Oh, and who are we going to put in instead of Shavon?  Rivers?  Is anyone seriously making this argument?  Miles is essentially down to a 7 man rotation with Biggs and Smith coming off the bench.  Parker is the 8th guy, but it seems clear to me that he is just in there to give certain guys a breather.  

 

OK, I need to stop b/c I am getting a migraine just discussing this.

[PimpMario]

 

 

Shavon isn't showing toughness now? The nine rebounds he pulled down while wrestling with Hammons Sunday say differently, including the elbow he took in the head from Hammons but stayed in the game. Not to mention gutting it out with a knee problem. 

 

Good point.

 

How do we win?

 

 

If your thinking Shavon is the reason we are without a W in conference play, you are off a bit.  The losses we have are due to team errors.  Does Shavon have every turnover, every bad shot, and every missed freethrow?  The losses fall on the team, and not just one individual player.  Sure sitting someone may lead to a win, but if your saying Shavon sitting will give us an automatic win or something to that effect you are mistaken.

 

 

I am not at all.

 

But we are fans and after 5 losses in a row we are going to start to question what is happening.  

 

We just want some hope to hold on to.  

 

So I was simply saying what should we try to change to win because we are 0-fer 5.