uneblinstu's post game chatter: vol 6, ed 6: UAB

[Norm Peterson]

Well, here's the first problem.  More than 8 players got double-figure minutes.  I mean Kansas never does that.  Why should we?  Do we have more talented players than Kansas?

[ladyhusker]

I swear this isn't me trying to bash a player, but I'm legitimately curious. For all that Petteway CAN bring to the table, in terms of points and rebounds, he does seem to cost us a lot too. It seemed as though we played our best ball while he was on the bench in the first half, in foul trouble. We seemed to share the ball better, and not force as much, and went on some runs because we were playing well defensively. When we started spinning the wheels, it seemed like a lot of lazy defense and forced shots, something we complain about from him (and the ESPN3 guys, as much as they bugged me, seemed to comment a lot about too). Someone who knows more about this stuff than I do -- would it be accurate to draw some connections between Terran and our bad team play? Or was it more just UAB adjusting and us not being able to respond? Or we got smacked one too many times and we're too inexperienced to know how to keep our composure? Or were we tired and just bored of playing defense? Or some combination?

 

If it IS the case that he's a sizable factor in what's ailing our team in the second half, I wonder if he's an addition-by-subtraction case, where he's the kind of guy you wouldn't want to play in some three-on-three street ball, but when it comes to playing quality TEAM basketball, which is sort of a requirement for us to have any sort of success in the B1G (especially when we do actually have some legit scoring weapons), we're better off limiting his minutes until he can develop more as a team-first guy. Just a question, sort of tying back to the team-chemistry concerns some had last week. (This is why I'm not a coach, though...just an observer and office-chair critic.)

[49r]

okay, Norm wins the thread!

 

[hhcmatt]

Well, here's the first problem.  More than 8 players got double-figure minutes.  I mean Kansas never does that.  Why should we?  Do we have more talented players than Kansas?

 

I know that's a bit tongue-in-cheek but foul trouble = bench play.

[Cazzie22]

The "zone" that was played today was pitiful.  

 

This team has only played 3 games together since Biggs and Gallegos missed the first two.  Miles is still searching for a combo that will function as a unit.  UMass torched New Mexico late, so maybe we played better than we give ourselves credit.

 

People, I'm trying to find positives here!!!!

[tcp]

this is just not the year to be either young or vertically challenged in NCAA hoops, and we happen to be both.

[Norm Peterson]

I swear this isn't me trying to bash a player, but I'm legitimately curious. For all that Petteway CAN bring to the table, in terms of points and rebounds, he does seem to cost us a lot too. It seemed as though we played our best ball while he was on the bench in the first half, in foul trouble. We seemed to share the ball better, and not force as much, and went on some runs because we were playing well defensively. When we started spinning the wheels, it seemed like a lot of lazy defense and forced shots, something we complain about from him (and the ESPN3 guys, as much as they bugged me, seemed to comment a lot about too). Someone who knows more about this stuff than I do -- would it be accurate to draw some connections between Terran and our bad team play? Or was it more just UAB adjusting and us not being able to respond? Or we got smacked one too many times and we're too inexperienced to know how to keep our composure? Or were we tired and just bored of playing defense? Or some combination?

 

If it IS the case that he's a sizable factor in what's ailing our team in the second half, I wonder if he's an addition-by-subtraction case, where he's the kind of guy you wouldn't want to play in some three-on-three street ball, but when it comes to playing quality TEAM basketball, which is sort of a requirement for us to have any sort of success in the B1G (especially when we do actually have some legit scoring weapons), we're better off limiting his minutes until he can develop more as a team-first guy. Just a question, sort of tying back to the team-chemistry concerns some had last week. (This is why I'm not a coach, though...just an observer and office-chair critic.)

Whoa.  Ladyhusker.  Ahhh, I can't argue with you.  Can't.  Except I think you meant "subtraction-by-addition" instead of "addition-by-subtraction" which usually means you're better without someone.  And I think you were trying to say we're worse with someone.

 

I'll be honest, I didn't get a chance to watch the game today.  But this hits very close to some other things people have said on here before today.  One of the posters in NUdiehard's thread about "Chemistry" suggested that it's not just about players wanting their shots and having people settle into their roles but maybe more a question about some people having poisonous attitudes, and I worry that there's some merit to that concern.

 

In one of the earlier post-game threads, I said I was going to be calling Petteway out for selfish play.

 

Last night, I was musing to myself the following question:

 

Would Terran Petteway rather score 30 points in a losing effort or score 3 points in a winning effort?

 

And I worry how he would answer that question if he was being totally honest.

[Norm Peterson]

ladyhusker, nevermind that addition by subtraction thing.  I think you said what you meant.  I misread it and thought you were working from the other direction.  In other words, you're saying would it be addition-by-subtraction if he sat during times when we need to be good.  And, yeah, that's a good point.  We might just be.

 

I can't remember the last time I felt a Husker player was being so blatantly a ball hog.  I gotta wonder if his teammates feel the same way.

[ladyhusker]

I suppose I should balance this, too...on the plus side, this wouldn't really have been an issue before, when we didn't have so many scoring options that someone taking the team on his back would be a potentially bad thing. I suppose that's something we can be thankful for. There were years we needed someone to take tons of shots in order to have a chance. Now we have lots of weapons, and the trick is learning to use them all. Cool problem to have, I guess.

 

The defense is still kind of perplexing though, but we were probably also kind of spoiled by lots of years' worth of defensive Runzas. We probably wouldn't earn a ton of those this year, but I also don't think we're generally as bad as the last two days have been. Maybe all the whistling yesterday spooked us more than we realize (when defense = foul = points for them), I don't know. But with non-Valentine reffing I think/hope/pray we'll get something back there. If nothing else, play more Benny and/or just let Peltz go punch people (if it's going to be a foul, make it a REAL foul and not just looking sideways at the guy).

[The_Vault]

Never seen a defense as bad as ours. How the hell do you let up layups or foul every possession? Walt is also very soft and Tai has been a little disappointing thus far. Tai almost looks out of shape and slow

[jimmykc]

If we lose on Sunday it looks like the sky-is-falling crowd will be showing up here just as I predicted before the tournament started. Sort of appears that Petteway is being branded (prematurely) as the new Standhardinger. Maybe we need kidney to return and show him some love now.

[tcp]

I don't even remotely get the Petteway venom. The guy's been hands down the best player for us in the tourney, and it hasn't been especially close.

And we're upset by that?

I'm confused.

[NUdiehard]

My two cents before I let this one go and move on to the next:

 

1.  Fahro - Of all the things in this game, it is the Fahro situation that bothers me the most.  And yes, since we happened to play UAB today, and since yes, Fahro played quite well, and since yes, he is 6'10" 250 lbs, and since yes, we all know that we are in desperate need of size, then now seems the best time to vent on this one issue.  After today, I will do my best (can't make any 100% promises though) to put it behind me and move on. Many people want to completely trivialize the Fahro situation.  To me, that is difficult to grasp.  The "decision" to cut Fahro was not just one of many "decisions" coaches make in individual games throughout the year--ie, to play zone, run sets, press or not press.  The decision to cut Fahro did not affect just one game, it affected two full seasons of games.  That is over 60 games!    And we will never know just how much it affected us, but it could be very significant.  If this teams gets its stuff in order this season, it could even possibly be the difference between NCAA tourney this year and sitting at home.  Is that stretching it? Maybe.  But having his size and skill available would do wonders for this team, not to mention add much needed depth and experience.  He also would have been very nice to have last year when we were patching together a team of walk-ons and student managers.  Making the correct "decisions" on things like this can make or brake a coach in the long run.  It is why they get paid the big bucks.   Now, we all know this is just a blip on the radar for Miles career here b/c he is here to build a program and will have a long time to do it--as he absolutely should.  I am NOT trying to say this decision should have any bearing at all on his standing here, so please don't flip out and go all crazy about this.  Just saying that it is frustrating that Miles had this kid signed and delivered and took the active step of cutting him for nothing.  He got nothing in return.  That scholarship went to no one.  We could have had Fahro for two years and lost absolutely nothing to do so.  That is a major blunder, and it could be the difference in a 6 point UMASS loss, heck even UAB, if we have Fahro and they don't, could be a different outcome, and so on, game after game, after game.   And please, for those want to say that Fahro "disappeared" or "robbed the bookstore", good grief.  Miles must have "found" him soon enough to tell him his schools was being pulled.  And as for the bookstore incident, c'mon.  Petteway cold punched an opponent at TTU, but that was not a problem.  Biggs had a DUI, but that wasn't a problem.  Let's not just make up excuses for this one.  Just call it what  it was, a huge blunder.  Doesn't mean anyone is calling for his head or wants him to be fired or anything. 

 

OK, now that I've got that out of my system, on to today's game. 

 

2.  Why did Smith only play 11 minutes?

 

3. Why is it that our starting lineup seems to struggle so much, both at the beginning of the games and the beginning of the 2nd half?  Miles is definitely going to have to look at whether that truly is the "best" lineup?

 

4.  Miles is a strict "man-to-man" guy.  I doubt they had practiced much zone before yesterday' game.  I remember having this same "discussion" about Doc who rarely practiced zone even after he said he was going to try it more.  Not sure why some coaches are so stubborn in their ways.  Zone has its place, but it has to be practiced before it can be effective in games.

 

5.  Serg - I know I am not going to be popular on this one.  But I just don't understand why he couldn't just get a few minutes there in the 2nd half.  How could it have been any worse?  Put him under the basket and tell him to put his hands up and see what happens.  Why does he absolutely refuse to play Serg?  Same could be said about yesterday when virtually everyone had fouled out and yet no Serg. If Serg comes in and absolutely stinks up the joint, then take him out and we move on. 

 

6.  Tai - I was REALLY high on Tai after the first two games, but I have been disappointed in him the last 2 games.  He simply must be more of a factor.  He also needs to start hitting his outside shot.  By the 2nd half, UAB was not even guarding him on the perimeter.  Tai is afraid to take the jump shot and when he does, he misses.  Not good.  He is young, so hopefully it is just a confidence thing that he can get worked out. 

 

7.  On a similar note, UAB packed the paint in the 2nd half.  Dared us to shoot from the outside.  The man guarding Shields played at least 5 feet off him when Shields was outside the arc.  You could see Shields debating whether he should shoot it or not.  If he can't or won't hit the 3 point shot, every team will play him that way from here on out.

 

8.  On a similar note, but reverse, why doesn't NU pack the paint on the defensive end against teams like UMASS and UAB?  As LK1 has repeatedly pointed out, there is no need to be all over most of the guys when they are 25 feet from the basket.  Lay off them, pack the paint and make them hit the jumper.  Under they hit it repeatedly, stay in the paint and quit ball-hawking so far out.  THis will also reduce all those stupid fouls 25 feet from the basket.

 

9.   As everyone has mentioned, we need to learn to play defense without fouling.  UAB only had 6 fouls in the first half, so apparently it can be done. 

 

10.  No, the sky is not falling.  But, the bummer about these early losses is that it takes a lot of momentum out of the season so early.  Sure, all of us diehards will continue to attend/follow every single game just like we have done year after year after year.  But what about those 7,000 "new" season ticket holders?  Are they going to attend every game now, or are they going to give up? And even if they do attend, will they have the same energy?  The same excitement?  The same hope?  It is hard to "get up" for every game when it seems like NCAA hopes are dashed already in November (and I would say that is true even for the diehards).  Personally, I would rather lose late in the year if I had to choose.  At least I could "live the dream" (even if it is an allusion) until February.  Now, it is almost back to "well, we have everyone back next year, so let's see if we can improve."

 

OK, I've said my piece.  Now all the sunshine pumpers can jump all over me and say I am just negative nancy and sky if falling guy and all that.  

[royalfan]

I don't even remotely get the Petteway venom. The guy's been hands down the best player for us in the tourney, and it hasn't been especially close.

And we're upset by that?

I'm confused.

Me too.  He was a huge positive IMO.  He needs to help us generate toughness on defense though.  That aspect needs to be led by him also if he is indeed our team leader. 

[Husker4theSpurs]

Some thoughts:

- all of these teams down here look so much better than our team ... we needed our expectations tempered. And these aren't even great teams. We are young and inexperienced and still feeling our way.

- Petteway really forced things early but it also seems the tougher the shot the more likely he is to make it. I don't think he's a ball hog or selfish really ... He was put in the position to force a lot today as we seemed to do a lot of standing around on offense with 5 men outside the three point line.

- appears Biggs is a bit in the doghouse due to defensive play (or one particular play today). We played really well with him in the game in the first half. Benny was continually put in instead of Biggs in second half. Biggs still appears to have a crappy attitude.

- Shields is pressing a bit.

- we seemed to have a tough time getting into our offense and wound up standing around a lot.

- we have a ton of work to do on defense. Rebounding will need work too but obviously you will be out rebounded when the opponent doesn't miss as there's no defensive rebound to be had.

Trying to keep the faith.

- oh ... And Fahro is a douche ... He flexed a few times after plays and took this game personally. We just yawned and asked "what's that guy's name again?"

[hhcmatt]

OK, I've said my piece.  Now all the sunshine pumpers can jump all over me and say I am just negative nancy and sky if falling guy and all that.

You made a lot of points...some of them I agreed with and some i disagreed.

No reason to end it like this

[NUdiehard]

Dimes, you are right, that probably wasn't the best way to end it.  I regret that phrase. 

 

We are all frustrated.  I find this board a bit therapeutic in that I can vent a bit to others who are also fanatical about our team and then move on.  But sometimes it seems like others take a little "venting" as being a "hater" and a "want to fire the coach" guy, etc.  Heck, Norm has already accused me of being a Creighton fan in disquise, so maybe I was just trying to preempt that a bit. 

[hhcmatt]

Dimes, you are right, that probably wasn't the best way to end it.  I regret that phrase. 

 

We are all frustrated.  I find this board a bit therapeutic in that I can vent a bit to others who are also fanatical about our team and then move on.  But sometimes it seems like others take a little "venting" as being a "hater" and a "want to fire the coach" guy, etc.  Heck, Norm has already accused me of being a Creighton fan in disquise, so maybe I was just trying to preempt that a bit. 

 

Yeah, we all get carried away..I know I do at times.  It's all good.

[ladyhusker]

You know, after thinking more, we harp on Terran (obviously myself included), but he's not the only black hole on offense. Tai and Deverell aren't much for passing either. I think Terran's habit is a little more pronounced because he's in the game more, generally speaking. But I do think those other two have a little of that same bug and those attitudes feed off each other and exacerbate it. But he's not alone in it. We need to correct it as a team, not just as an individual...because depending on who hit a few shots first, we could have been having this same conversation about either of those two also.

Yeah, we all get carried away..I know I do at times.  It's all good.

I'll say this -- while it is JUST a game (and believe me, I've got as much invested in it as anyone), maybe it's a crappy attitude on my part but it's a little, dare I say, refreshing to see so much emotion and hyperbolic expression and conversation had...about basketball. I know it's stating the obvious, because this is, of course, a basketball message board. But even though we may disagree (vehemently at times), we are still having a conversation, mostly civil, about hoops, which is something I know I don't get much of in my everyday life outside of the season (and during the season, it's usually talking to casual or non-fans who ask generic questions that require little in-depth thought or knowledge to answer..."how's the season going?""how's recruiting?""do you like the new coach?") and even when we get carried away, I'm still encouraged by the fact that it's because people care so much about a basketball team. In such a football-centric state, it's a nice change of pace.

So agree or disagree, hyperbole or straight facts, sunshine pumper or negative nancy, I'm just glad that we're still having a conversation.

[NUdiehard]

Yeah, we all get carried away..I know I do at times.  It's all good.

I'll say this -- while it is JUST a game (and believe me, I've got as much invested in it as anyone), maybe it's a crappy attitude on my part but it's a little, dare I say, refreshing to see so much emotion and hyperbolic expression and conversation had...about basketball. I know it's stating the obvious, because this is, of course, a basketball message board. But even though we may disagree (vehemently at times), we are still having a conversation, mostly civil, about hoops, which is something I know I don't get much of in my everyday life outside of the season (and during the season, it's usually talking to casual or non-fans who ask generic questions that require little in-depth thought or knowledge to answer..."how's the season going?""how's recruiting?""do you like the new coach?") and even when we get carried away, I'm still encouraged by the fact that it's because people care so much about a basketball team. In such a football-centric state, it's a nice change of pace.

So agree or disagree, hyperbole or straight facts, sunshine pumper or negative nancy, I'm just glad that we're still having a conversation.

 

 

Ladyhusker, first, I would like to say welcome to the board.  I just gave you my first ever "exalt" button of "up arrow" or whatever its called for your post above.  It is refreshing to see there are others on this board who actually get it and what the purpose of this board is and should be.   I have heard Tim Miles himself say he is happy when others are critiquing or even criticizing him b/c that means they are at least talking about the team and the program.  There are sooooo few fans who know anything of any substance about NU basketball.  We all want the same thing, and that is for NU BB to be successful.  If can't come here and be honest and put it all on the line, then what is the point? 

[hhcmatt]

 

2.  Why did Smith only play 11 minutes?

  

 

I blame ESPN3 because I missed this throughout the game.

Anyone have any insight on this?  I don't think he had foul trouble most of the game.  Was it the turnover at the end of the half?

[nuhusker7]

What I've noticed with Terran is not the fact that he is taking so many shots, it's when he is taking the shots. I don't have a problem with him taking the majority of the teams shots, as I believe he is the best scorer on the team. My problem is that he just gets the ball and shoots, I'm not trying to sound like Doc over here, but with our defense struggling the way it is we really don't want Terran to be shooting ten seconds into the shot clock on every possession. Work around he offense a little bit and one that will make scoring easier for him in general when other players touch the ball, and two we won't be having to try to recover to play defense

[Huskerpapa]

I will repeat, we will be okay.  Part of growing is the lumps one can take along the way.  These last two games, we were beat up.  But there continues to be glimpses of a positive program growth.  We may not enjoy the ride, but I think we will like the destination.

[Silverbacked1]

Happiest guy on the team who is reading this board is Benny.

For now he can play knowing that SOME have forgot about him needing to transfer.

I kid, I kid.

[cozrulz]

Might as well get Vooch some minutes to see if he can help.  Get him ready for Big 10 play.