uneblinstu's postgame chatter : vol 17; ed 31- Iowa

[CornHoopsters]

Haven't posted here in quite some time. What are your thoughts on losing Josiah Allick's leadership and close relationship to a few "leaders" on this team in mid-Feb to pro ball in New Zealand? He was pretty vocal as a player. Seems to be the approximate timing of the collapse of the season. Hopefully it's nothing. For this staff's sake I sure hope losing a GA doesn't make THAT much of a difference.

Edited 3 hours ago by CornHoopsters

[Nebrasketball1979]

18 minutes ago, CornHoopsters said:

Haven't posted here in quite some time. What are your thoughts on losing Josiah Allick's leadership and close relationship to a few "leaders" on this team in mid-Feb to pro ball in New Zealand? He was pretty vocal as a player. Seems to be the approximate timing of the collapse of the season. Hopefully it's nothing. For this staff's sake I sure hope losing a GA makes THAT much of a difference.

We lost six games in a row before that, won 4 in a row around that time and then collapsed to end the year.  I don't think Josiah is the common thread.

 

However, I do think a leadership void amongst the players was an issue.  

Edited 3 hours ago by Nebrasketball1979

[CanadianHusker]

To all of you who faithfully posted through all of the good and the bad this season (I couldn’t do it)…

 

And to @hhcmatt and all of you that make this board so great…

 

Thanks! GBR! And here’s to a win or 2 in the Big Dance next year!!! 

[millerhusker]

11 hours ago, basketballjones said:

I’m not gonna lie - I have absolutely no idea what you’re saying here. Can you clarify?

I will try. Of the teams with the best offenses in college basketball, there are teams that run most of their stuff through one high usage player as the primary decision maker and creator (Auburn, Duke, Purdue, Bama, Gonzaga, Oklahoma, BYU, Ohio St, Louisville, Illinois, UNC). There are also great offenses that don't have a single super high usage player or primary decision maker (Houston, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Missouri, etc)  Of the great offenses who have a more ball dominant primary decision maker, none of those teams have a player of Brice's archetype in that role. A smooth, three level scorer but one whose game isn't to consistently create looks for teammates. All of the high usage players on these teams are either floor general PGs who can get into the teeth of the defense and create (Braden Smith, RJ Davis, Jeremiah Fears, Mark Sears, Egor Demin, Bruce Thornton, Chucky, Jacucionis, Nembhard) or versatile 4s/5s who not only can lead their team in scoring but also have great vision and a high assist rate (Cooper Flagg, Johnni Broome, Danny Wolf, Rienk Mast last year). 

 

Brice is right up there with the best three level wing scorers in college basketball. There a handful that will be drafted in the first round this year. Kon Knueppel, Will Riley, Tre Johnson, Liam McNeeley and Jaxson Robinson.

Knueppel, Riley, McNeeley and Robinson are stars in their role. They might all have future NBA all-star potential, but they're lower usage role players at the college level. You'd rather not have these guys running PNRs and trying to create for others. You do want to find them and have them hunting shots within the offense. And if things break down in a possession, you can give them the ball and have them get their own shot. 

Tre Johnson at Texas plays the same exact role as Brice this year. Although there is talent around Johnson, they chose to run everything through a ball dominant wing scorer who doesn't create for others and their offense is hard to watch because of it. They put up outrageous numbers early against about 8 mid-major opponents. Outside of that, they've basically been Nebraska, but worse. Johnson will be a top 5 pick this year, but Texas would be better off if they didn't run everything through him. If they played him more off the ball and looked to get him shots within the flow of the offense. He'd still be a top 5 talent.

Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper will both be top 3 picks. Rutgers was absolutely atrocious when Dylan Harper was off the court and everything revolved around Ace Bailey. But had a pretty good offense when Harper was on the court and Bailey wasn't. There are a whole lot of other examples of high volume wing scorers on poor offensive teams (which is why I don't believe Abdi Bashir would be a good fit).

 

So, to answer HB's original question, no Brice wasn't a role player for this team, but it's not crazy at all to say it's what he would/should be on a successful offense at the college level. Like last year. We didn't have a choice this year, because of the way the roster was built. And Brice did an incredibly admirable job of playing the role he had to play. 

Might sound like a diss to Brice, but it's really not. If anything it's a knock on the coaching staff. But if Mast were healthy and/or we got one of the several point guards we were after, this wouldn't be a conversation right now. 

[HuscurAdam]

17 hours ago, AGHANSEN said:

Folks, enough of the nonsense fire Hoiberg stuff. 
The fact that we were in NCAA tournament discussions the last week of the season is a miracle with how flawed this roster was. Outside of Brice and Juwan, the rest of the guys would make up an average A10 conference team. We lost 9 games that came down to the final minute/ OT, so we were right there we just didn’t have enough talent to close out games.  Berke got hurt at the worst possible time and we got screwed in a few games. Yes, you can blame Fred for the lack of talent on the roster, but overall the transfers simply didn’t play up to expectations. Is that a coaching issue or the players just not holding up the end of their bargain ? I’m not sure. 
 

Fred just needs to get some talent and athleticism from portal with Rienk and we might be alright. 
 

 

I could not disagree with this statement more! Without Brice and Juwan, this roster would not be remotely competitive in the A10. The fact that Fred coached *this* roster to within a couple of baskets or missed calls from the NCAA tournament is nothing short of a miracle. 

[hhcmatt]

8 hours ago, busticket said:

I would be fine with it if they decided to make a change.  Fred has been given ample time to right the ship and while better than his horrific start, it feels like we have hit a big wall.  
 

Making a change would at least show that we are serious about being competitive.  And as you said, NIL makes it different than it used to be.  I suspect NIL dollars would be more available as people invested in the program will be excited for the change.  Watching these late season collapses is rough on the fans.  And the defense just isn’t working.  If we don’t do something I fear apathy will set in.  And with that it will be harder to get NIL.

 

Given we've spent over $50 million in buying out coaches in the last 20 years, we're certainly no stranger to buyouts. At this particular moment, I think the buyout for Fred is about $12.5 million.  On March 31, that number is $10 million. 

 

 

https://nebraska.edu/-/media/projects/unca/docs/transparency/contracts/fred-hoiberg-contract-of-employment.pdf

 

We extended the guy last season and while the end of this season has been a serious of gut punches, it is at least a season that will end in post-season play.  Cannot see the University eating this much money for a relatively popular coach who's had 3 decent seasons in a row, as disappointing as those 3 seasons have ended. Can certainly acknowledge this is a low bar.

 

Beyond having the university buyout a coach, you can always have a donor buyout a contract like when someone wrote a check to get rid of Archie Miller at Indiana. I guess my question is that if people think that we're not getting enough NIL money put in towards basketball then who exactly is going to write a check to get rid of very popular head coach Fred Hoiberg?

 

Unless Fred needs to close it down due to health issues, he's easily back for year 7.

[HB]

4 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Given we've spent over $50 million in buying out coaches in the last 20 years, we're certainly no stranger to buyouts. At this particular moment, I think the buyout for Fred is about $12.5 million.  On March 31, that number is $10 million. 

 

 

https://nebraska.edu/-/media/projects/unca/docs/transparency/contracts/fred-hoiberg-contract-of-employment.pdf

 

We extended the guy last season and while the end of this season has been a serious of gut punches, it is at least a season that will end in post-season play.  Cannot see the University eating this much money for a relatively popular coach who's had 3 decent seasons in a row, as disappointing as those 3 seasons have ended. Can certainly acknowledge this is a low bar.

 

Beyond having the university buyout a coach, you can always have a donor buyout a contract like when someone wrote a check to get rid of Archie Miller at Indiana. I guess my question is that if people think that we're not getting enough NIL money put in towards basketball then who exactly is going to write a check to get rid of very popular head coach Fred Hoiberg?

 

Unless Fred needs to close it down due to health issues, he's easily back for year 7.

 

Most if not all of the donors who would write such a check like Fred, and  most know him personally.  However, if we suck next year, it all becomes more obvious. 

[hskr4life]

Just now, HB said:

 

Most if not all of the donors who would write such a check like Fred, and  most know him personally.  However, if we suck next year, it all becomes more obvious. 

 

Personally believe that Fred is a good enough guy where if we suck next year, it'll probably be mutual. I also think that Fred is a good enough coach that it doesn't have to be this way. Portal will be HUGE for us this spring.

[busticket]

Many buyouts are driven by having a booster willing to write the check.  I have no idea if there is “that guy” that passionately follows Nebraska basketball.  But I agree that the university won’t do it without a booster chipping in.

[realist22]

19 hours ago, B1G Red said:

What’s the argument for retaining Fred, other than avoiding the buyout?

He has one of the best 3 year stretches ever.  Coming off a tourney and coach of the year.  NIL and revenue sharing really kicking in next year, other than that those 1st 3 years are a huge black mark.  With everything fb is doing now, unless someome ponies up that $15-20M, hes gonna be here 1 more year at least.  Its Nebrasketball and thats where we are.  

[millerhusker]

Reading through other message boards.. it's a weird time in history when Husker fans are ecstatic to go 6-6 and make a bowl game against a pretty soft schedule, pumping up the football program as much as ever, but want to fire the basketball coach after the best three year run since '97-'99. 

[hskr4life]

4 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

Reading through other message boards.. it's a weird time in history when Husker fans are ecstatic to go 6-6 and make a bowl game against a pretty soft schedule, pumping up the football program as much as ever, but want to fire the basketball coach after the best three year run since '97-'99. 

 

#BasketballSchool

[Navin R. Johnson]

19 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

Reading through other message boards.. it's a weird time in history when Husker fans are ecstatic to go 6-6 and make a bowl game against a pretty soft schedule, pumping up the football program as much as ever, but want to fire the basketball coach after the best three year run since '97-'99. 

 

I was thinking the same thing.  In my mind, the basketball team had a better season than the football team.

[realist22]

16 hours ago, fr8-train said:

 

Not sure how many coaches are contributing to their team's NIL funds, but for as much as Fred is making he could certainly afford to boost whatever is available at NU and, in turn, help himself keep his job and salary flowing.  

I dont think thats legal

[HuscurAdam]

54 minutes ago, HB said:

 

Most if not all of the donors who would write such a check like Fred, and  most know him personally.  However, if we suck next year, it all becomes more obvious. 

 

If any of those donors really do like Fred, they should write that check now for NIL and give him the chance to be successful. Otherwise, our roster talent will end up similar to this year's (or worse!) and he's a dead man walking. 

[millerhusker]

9 minutes ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

 

I was thinking the same thing.  In my mind, the basketball team had a better season than the football team.

I agree. About 70% of FBS teams make a bowl game. About 18% of D1 basketball teams make the NCAA tournament. And another 13% will play in the NIT and Crown tournament. 

[basketballjones]

1 hour ago, millerhusker said:

I will try. Of the teams with the best offenses in college basketball, there are teams that run most of their stuff through one high usage player as the primary decision maker and creator (Auburn, Duke, Purdue, Bama, Gonzaga, Oklahoma, BYU, Ohio St, Louisville, Illinois, UNC). There are also great offenses that don't have a single super high usage player or primary decision maker (Houston, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Missouri, etc)  Of the great offenses who have a more ball dominant primary decision maker, none of those teams have a player of Brice's archetype in that role. A smooth, three level scorer but one whose game isn't to consistently create looks for teammates. All of the high usage players on these teams are either floor general PGs who can get into the teeth of the defense and create (Braden Smith, RJ Davis, Jeremiah Fears, Mark Sears, Egor Demin, Bruce Thornton, Chucky, Jacucionis, Nembhard) or versatile 4s/5s who not only can lead their team in scoring but also have great vision and a high assist rate (Cooper Flagg, Johnni Broome, Danny Wolf, Rienk Mast last year). 

 

Brice is right up there with the best three level wing scorers in college basketball. There a handful that will be drafted in the first round this year. Kon Knueppel, Will Riley, Tre Johnson, Liam McNeeley and Jaxson Robinson.

Knueppel, Riley, McNeeley and Robinson are stars in their role. They might all have future NBA all-star potential, but they're lower usage role players at the college level. You'd rather not have these guys running PNRs and trying to create for others. You do want to find them and have them hunting shots within the offense. And if things break down in a possession, you can give them the ball and have them get their own shot. 

Tre Johnson at Texas plays the same exact role as Brice this year. Although there is talent around Johnson, they chose to run everything through a ball dominant wing scorer who doesn't create for others and their offense is hard to watch because of it. They put up outrageous numbers early against about 8 mid-major opponents. Outside of that, they've basically been Nebraska, but worse. Johnson will be a top 5 pick this year, but Texas would be better off if they didn't run everything through him. If they played him more off the ball and looked to get him shots within the flow of the offense. He'd still be a top 5 talent.

Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper will both be top 3 picks. Rutgers was absolutely atrocious when Dylan Harper was off the court and everything revolved around Ace Bailey. But had a pretty good offense when Harper was on the court and Bailey wasn't. There are a whole lot of other examples of high volume wing scorers on poor offensive teams (which is why I don't believe Abdi Bashir would be a good fit).

 

So, to answer HB's original question, no Brice wasn't a role player for this team, but it's not crazy at all to say it's what he would/should be on a successful offense at the college level. Like last year. We didn't have a choice this year, because of the way the roster was built. And Brice did an incredibly admirable job of playing the role he had to play. 

Might sound like a diss to Brice, but it's really not. If anything it's a knock on the coaching staff. But if Mast were healthy and/or we got one of the several point guards we were after, this wouldn't be a conversation right now. 

So, to clarify your thesis in words that make sense to me, in your words - College Basketball is not won by having a "Kobe Bryant/Michael Jordan," but won by having a "Derrick Rose/Russell Westbrook/Ja Morant?"

 

I am not sure I agree with that or if the stats back that up (I honestly have zero idea, not saying I disagree either). But I would agree that Nebrasketball has long missed out on having a disruptive guard - 6'2" - 6'4" hyper aggressive ball handler who gets to the paint at will and creates for others or has a high foul rate. 

My only "argument" against you wouldn't really be an argument, but more saying that *insert "why not both?" meme*

 

Zero reason outside of poor roster management, recruiting, and budgeting that we couldn't have both Brice and a disruptive ball handler. 

[HB]

46 minutes ago, HuscurAdam said:

 

If any of those donors really do like Fred, they should write that check now for NIL and give him the chance to be successful. Otherwise, our roster talent will end up similar to this year's (or worse!) and he's a dead man walking. 

 

They already do.  But it's the same people getting hit up for football, other sports, facilities, etc.  It's not that easy to get enough people willing to write big checks to directly pay players.  Wish we had a broader group of well-heeled college sports fans.   But it's always easy to tell others what to do with their money.   

[HB]

48 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

 

Zero reason outside of poor roster management, recruiting, and budgeting that we couldn't have both Brice and a disruptive ball handler. 

 

Yeah, the last 2 year portal acquisition of point guards was a disaster.   Gotta do better there.   Agents for point guards in the portals will be able to hold us this year.  

[HB]

1 hour ago, millerhusker said:

Reading through other message boards.. it's a weird time in history when Husker fans are ecstatic to go 6-6 and make a bowl game against a pretty soft schedule, pumping up the football program as much as ever, but want to fire the basketball coach after the best three year run since '97-'99. 

On the other hand, it could be stated that with a 37-82 conference record, and not even making a 15 team conference tournament in year 6, it's a weird time that other than some message board fire, there isn't a groundswell to fire the coach.   I'm not on the "fire Fred this year" team, but it isn't outlandish for people to be on it.