uneblinstu's postgame chatter : vol 17; ed 2 - Bethune-Cookman

[GhostOfJoeMcCray]

2 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

Starting Meah mucks up the whole offense and that leads to the stagnant offense throughout the game because it prevents the offense from getting into a rhythm early and then guys get down and start pressing.  For the life of me I can't understand why he starts.  He should be a 5-10 minute a game player, at most.  I would be fine with zero minutes against lesser/smaller teams.  His detrimental role in the starting lineup is compounded by the fact that Rollie and Gary can't shoot.  Hard to believe Hoiberg is starting a lineup with three guys who can't shoot.  Ugh!

 

Watching basketball is not as fun when the players on your team can't shoot.  Last year any of 4 or 5 guys could go off from the 3 point line on any night (Keisei, Wilcher, Mast, Williams, Lawrence, etc.)  That made if fun--electric! After three games of watching this team the only thing I have felt is annoyed.  

 

Now that I've got that off my chest, I'll try to find some positives.  Like many above, I do agree there could be some potential in some of these players if the lineups are adjusted.  More minutes for Connor, Gavin and Morgan.  Less minutes for Meah and less for Ulis or Sam. 

 

My roster is the exact same as Hugh's above, except that battle for the 8th spot is between Sam and Ulis.  As of this point, I have no idea what Ulis brings to the table.  So far all I have seen is a guy who can kind of dribble and is an okay athlete.  He is not a good shooter.  I have not seen any indication is a good creator or distributor.  He is just . . . there.  Does not really bring anything of substance that i have seen so far.  But the season is early so he should have more time to show what he can bring and then it must be  decided between him and Sam for those minutes.  

 

We basically just typed the exact same thing at the same time. 

[Vinny]

15 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

If you're playing Meah you almost have to start him because you don't want him shooting FTs

The middle of each half should be pretty safe vs being in the bonus. But if we’re there and the opponent is trying to expose it we can adjust. From these first two games he’d be the first players who’s minutes I would reduce.

[hskr4life]

8 hours ago, HarleysBaselineJumper said:

I think the body language concerns are overblown at this point.  When shots are going in everyone is happy and when they aren’t, it looks bad.   Effort and selfishness haven’t been the major concerns of mine through two games.  At the end of the day you have to take care of the ball and make 3s to win in today’s game. 
 

-Rollie was close to 3:1 assist to turnover ratio and at the top of the PAC 12 in that stat.  So far he has 5 assists to 8 turnovers which has to change. I will put more stock in his two years over two games but no offense looks good with your PG having those stats.  
 

- 3 point shooting. We currently sit at 25% which again is not a winning level.  I don’t hate the shot selection overall but Griffiths/Berke/Gary/Brice have to shoot a better percentage if we are to be successful. I’m more concerned about this one long term than the above point.  Those guys have some track record of good shooting but outside of Brice not a long history of high percentages.  

 

I've had both games on, but have also been doing other things, so those who have watched more closely....

 

How much of your 2nd point is affecting the 1st point? Seems tough to get assists when you're only shooting 25% from deep.

[Silverbacked1]

 Could we be starting Meath to win the tap?

[Dean Smith]

11 hours ago, Silverbacked1 said:

 Could we be starting Meath to win the tap?

But we lost it vs. BC - We have for a long time specialized in winning the possession arrow. 

[GhostOfJoeMcCray]

9 hours ago, Silverbacked1 said:

 Could we be starting Meath to win the tap?

 

We basically try to win the tip with him and get an easy basket with him on the first possession. 

 

We won the tip the exhibition game, Meah got a dunk.

We won the tip the first game, Meah got fouled and missed both free throws.

We lost the tip the second game.

[GhostOfJoeMcCray]

+/- from Bethune Cookman: 

 

Worster +9

Morgan +8

Berke +8

Griffiths +7

Essegian +3

Gary 0

Hoiberg -1

Williams -2

Meah -3

Ulis -4

 

Total through 2 games:

Worster +30

Berke +29

Gary +26

Essegian +18

Morgan +14

Griffiths +11

Williams +6

Meah +2

Ulis -5

Hoiberg -6

 

Seems like the staff is way over-complicating this. Your top 7 are your top 7. 

Edited Monday at 04:11 PM by GhostOfJoeMcCray

[GhostOfJoeMcCray]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I was curious so I looked. Washington (a very average team) had the following numbers in Meah's two years there:

 

D efficiency ranked 71 and 97. 

2pt FG% D ranked 95 and 152. 

 

What's my perhaps overly simplistic point? I'm not sure having a 7-1 rim protector really matters all that much, especially if it means A) other guys don't think they need to give that extra bit of effort because a "rim protector" will take care of it. And B) said rim protector can't score or keep up with a fast-paced offense. 

 

Edited Monday at 04:25 PM by GhostOfJoeMcCray

[cornfed24-7]

41 minutes ago, GhostOfJoeMcCray said:

+/- from Bethune Cookman: 

 

Worster +9

Morgan +8

Berke +8

Griffiths +7

Essegian +3

Gary 0

Hoiberg -1

Williams -2

Meah -3

Ulis -4

 

Total through 2 games:

Worster +30

Berke +29

Gary +26

Essegian +18

Morgan +14

Griffiths +11

Williams +6

Meah +2

Ulis -5

Hoiberg -6

 

Seems like the staff is way over-complicating this. Your top 7 are your top 7. 

Please talk me out of the thinking that the +6 for Williams is an ominous sign

[t4640]

A few thoughts here from someone who generally observes reactions on this board but rarely comments.

For long tenured Nebrasketball fans this is kicking into "the sky is falling" mode rather quickly.  The team has some issues to sort out, for certain, but there is a base of talent and coaching to work with here that give me more confidence than in the past.  

The compare to '14-'15 is apples to oranges in opinion.  The nucleus of that Miles team was in tact from the prior season.  This year's team is pieced together from the portal (like many this day and age) and will hinge upon its ability for the potential of its talent to show itself.  I think that can happen, but it's likely going to take more than two games for us to see it.

The two teams we've faced so far haven't had top tier talent, but seeing them both up close; they played hard and scrapped defensively.  They were a bit helter-skelter schematically and possibly the most important piece...They didn't lack for athletes.  Those two teams played their asses off and that should be recognized.  I think some of the perceived lack of effort here is the two teams you played ran around with their hair on fire.

Our inability to hits shots consistently is an issue.  Though the 3pt misses I think even out over time, I'm far more concerned about the growing trend of not finishing at and around the basket.  Last year's team had plenty of early issues with hitting from outside consistently (2-22, anyone?).  But the past two seasons 13 and 51 could settle everything down and get a bucket on the block when needed, or facilitate for someone else who could.  I haven't seen that yet, but it looks like Berke and Morgan both have that type of potential as they get rooted in the offense.  Berke, specifically has huge potential.

Braxton is a worker and I expect there will be games where his ability to impact possessions on defense are lauded here.  He will never be the centerpiece of an offense and I agree the game slows down significantly when we play through him.  But these first two games are incredibly valuable reps for him to grow for when he has to do it later, because that day is coming.

The same thing can be said for everyone else who's two games in (Rollie, Gavin, Connor and most of all Berke).  You don't like the rotations?  I'm guessing Fred doesn't either at times.  They're figuring it out in these first three non-con games because when are they going to get a chance after that?

The vitriol around Brice is surprising.  Dude went for 27 and 5 out the gate then had an off night with everyone else on Saturday.  He may not lead or carry himself like Sammy G or whomever you want him to be, but this team is going as far as he takes them.  I have a pretty decent view of the floor and I don't see the "body language" issues.  He's just playing ball and that's how he carries himself.  He looks the same as he did last year when they were upsetting Purdue and Wisconsin from my vantage.

Edited Monday at 06:07 PM by t4640

[HarleysBaselineJumper]

16 hours ago, hskr4life said:

 

I've had both games on, but have also been doing other things, so those who have watched more closely....

 

How much of your 2nd point is affecting the 1st point? Seems tough to get assists when you're only shooting 25% from deep.

 

It definitely has an effect on the assist number but even with 3-4 more assists the ratio is still bad. Rollie's turnovers have just seemed sloppy so far and again I'm going to trust in his track record at this point that it will correct itself. Rollie and Ulis had a 23/17 minute split last game as direct replacements and that needs to move to 32/8 going forward in my opinion. The +- above supports that as well. If the turnover issues become chronic then you have a viable back up but I don't see how the offense can get in a rhythm with that minutes split. 

[hskr4life]

I think one thing that is worrying most is the fact that we get just 3 games before a tough neutral game vs. St. Mary's and then right onto Creighton in Omaha. Then you only get 1 more (South Dakota) cupcake before your opening two Big 10 games. North Florida, I think, has officially moved out of cupcake level game.

 

Last year we had 4 games before our neutral site game vs Oregon State (not as tough as St. Mary's) and then another 2 games before playing Creighton at home.

 

 

[GhostOfJoeMcCray]

Just now, hskr4life said:

I think one thing that is worrying most is the fact that we get just 3 games before a tough neutral game vs. St. Mary's and then right onto Creighton in Omaha. Then you only get 1 more (South Dakota) cupcake before your opening two Big 10 games. North Florida, I think, has officially moved out of cupcake level game.

 

Last year we had 4 games before our neutral site game vs Oregon State (not as tough as St. Mary's) and then another 2 games before playing Creighton at home.

 

 

 

We also had an exhibition, a closed game against Utah, and a public intrasquad scrimmage. So technically 6 game-like situations. If the guys aren't ready to play St. Mary's in Sioux Falls, that's on us. Most Big Ten teams will have tested themselves by 4 or 5 games into the season. 

 

Wednesday is the time for the staff to actually implement the changes they see need to be made, in my opinion. Our starting group led 8-6 against UTRGV at the first media timeout and trailed 4-8 against B-C at the first media timeout. If we have 10 guys playing 10+ minutes once again, it either means we've won by 40, or the coaches truly don't know what they want to do. Because you can't sit there and say we've got 10 guys that can really play and can contribute, but then also only beat Bethune-Cookman at home by 5 and lead UTRGV at home by 4 with 5 minutes left. 

Edited Monday at 07:36 PM by GhostOfJoeMcCray

[hskr4life]

6 minutes ago, GhostOfJoeMcCray said:

 

We also had an exhibition, a closed game against Utah, and a public intrasquad scrimmage. So technically 6 game-like situations. If the guys aren't ready to play St. Mary's in Sioux Falls, that's on us. Most Big Ten teams will have tested themselves by 4 or 5 games into the season. 

 

Wednesday is the time for the staff to actually implement the changes they see need to be made, in my opinion. Our starting group led 8-6 against UTRGV at the first media timeout and trailed 4-8 against B-C at the first media timeout. 

 

I don't disagree with this at all. We SHOULD be ready to go against St. Mary's or even earlier. But with how we have looked so far, it doesn't exactly spell confidence in whether we WILL be ready in 6 days. Big one on Wednesday to finalize what we're going to need to compete in our two biggest non-con matchups.

[GhostOfJoeMcCray]

Just now, hskr4life said:

 

I don't disagree with this at all. We SHOULD be ready to go against St. Mary's or even earlier. But with how we have looked so far, it doesn't exactly spell confidence in whether we WILL be ready in 6 days. Big one on Wednesday to finalize what we're going to need to compete in our two biggest non-con matchups.

 

I'm with you, I don't feel good about it at all either. FDU lost to Miami by 41 and to Creighton by 26. 

 

We need to "get right" this game, or we'll go into Sioux Falls with very little confidence. 

 

That said, perhaps this is a team that will play up or down to its competition. 

Edited Monday at 07:49 PM by GhostOfJoeMcCray

[hhcmatt]

3 hours ago, t4640 said:

A few thoughts here from someone who generally observes reactions on this board but rarely comments.

For long tenured Nebrasketball fans this is kicking into "the sky is falling" mode rather quickly.  The team has some issues to sort out, for certain, but there is a base of talent and coaching to work with here that give me more confidence than in the past.  

The compare to '14-'15 is apples to oranges in opinion.  The nucleus of that Miles team was in tact from the prior season.  This year's team is pieced together from the portal (like many this day and age) and will hinge upon its ability for the potential of its talent to show itself.  I think that can happen, but it's likely going to take more than two games for us to see it.

The two teams we've faced so far haven't had top tier talent, but seeing them both up close; they played hard and scrapped defensively.  They were a bit helter-skelter schematically and possibly the most important piece...They didn't lack for athletes.  Those two teams played their asses off and that should be recognized.  I think some of the perceived lack of effort here is the two teams you played ran around with their hair on fire.

Our inability to hits shots consistently is an issue.  Though the 3pt misses I think even out over time, I'm far more concerned about the growing trend of not finishing at and around the basket.  Last year's team had plenty of early issues with hitting from outside consistently (2-22, anyone?).  But the past two seasons 13 and 51 could settle everything down and get a bucket on the block when needed, or facilitate for someone else who could.  I haven't seen that yet, but it looks like Berke and Morgan both have that type of potential as they get rooted in the offense.  Berke, specifically has huge potential.

Braxton is a worker and I expect there will be games where his ability to impact possessions on defense are lauded here.  He will never be the centerpiece of an offense and I agree the game slows down significantly when we play through him.  But these first two games are incredibly valuable reps for him to grow for when he has to do it later, because that day is coming.

The same thing can be said for everyone else who's two games in (Rollie, Gavin, Connor and most of all Berke).  You don't like the rotations?  I'm guessing Fred doesn't either at times.  They're figuring it out in these first three non-con games because when are they going to get a chance after that?

The vitriol around Brice is surprising.  Dude went for 27 and 5 out the gate then had an off night with everyone else on Saturday.  He may not lead or carry himself like Sammy G or whomever you want him to be, but this team is going as far as he takes them.  I have a pretty decent view of the floor and I don't see the "body language" issues.  He's just playing ball and that's how he carries himself.  He looks the same as he did last year when they were upsetting Purdue and Wisconsin from my vantage.

 

As one of the younger old heads, this is a real 'Cats in the Cradle' moment for me

[Silverbacked1]

7 hours ago, t4640 said:

A few thoughts here from someone who generally observes reactions on this board but rarely comments.

For long tenured Nebrasketball fans this is kicking into "the sky is falling" mode rather quickly.  The team has some issues to sort out, for certain, but there is a base of talent and coaching to work with here that give me more confidence than in the past.  

The compare to '14-'15 is apples to oranges in opinion.  The nucleus of that Miles team was in tact from the prior season.  This year's team is pieced together from the portal (like many this day and age) and will hinge upon its ability for the potential of its talent to show itself.  I think that can happen, but it's likely going to take more than two games for us to see it.

The two teams we've faced so far haven't had top tier talent, but seeing them both up close; they played hard and scrapped defensively.  They were a bit helter-skelter schematically and possibly the most important piece...They didn't lack for athletes.  Those two teams played their asses off and that should be recognized.  I think some of the perceived lack of effort here is the two teams you played ran around with their hair on fire.

Our inability to hits shots consistently is an issue.  Though the 3pt misses I think even out over time, I'm far more concerned about the growing trend of not finishing at and around the basket.  Last year's team had plenty of early issues with hitting from outside consistently (2-22, anyone?).  But the past two seasons 13 and 51 could settle everything down and get a bucket on the block when needed, or facilitate for someone else who could.  I haven't seen that yet, but it looks like Berke and Morgan both have that type of potential as they get rooted in the offense.  Berke, specifically has huge potential.

Braxton is a worker and I expect there will be games where his ability to impact possessions on defense are lauded here.  He will never be the centerpiece of an offense and I agree the game slows down significantly when we play through him.  But these first two games are incredibly valuable reps for him to grow for when he has to do it later, because that day is coming.

The same thing can be said for everyone else who's two games in (Rollie, Gavin, Connor and most of all Berke).  You don't like the rotations?  I'm guessing Fred doesn't either at times.  They're figuring it out in these first three non-con games because when are they going to get a chance after that?

The vitriol around Brice is surprising.  Dude went for 27 and 5 out the gate then had an off night with everyone else on Saturday.  He may not lead or carry himself like Sammy G or whomever you want him to be, but this team is going as far as he takes them.  I have a pretty decent view of the floor and I don't see the "body language" issues.  He's just playing ball and that's how he carries himself.  He looks the same as he did last year when they were upsetting Purdue and Wisconsin from my vantage.

I agree with the Brice “body language”. He isn’t a rah rah or overly vocal type of guy.  I remember that we often get uhh frustrated with the guys who shoot arrows and make the too small gestures.  But also have trouble with a guy who shows no emotion but is arguably best player.

Edited yesterday at 01:06 AM by Silverbacked1

[AuroranHusker]

4 hours ago, Silverbacked1 said:

I agree with the Brice “body language”. He isn’t a rah rah or overly vocal type of guy.  I remember that we often get uhh frustrated with the guys who shoot arrows and make the too small gestures.  But also have trouble with a guy who shows no emotion but is arguably best player.

 

Brice took so much heat on HHC last season. He is not changin'. I'm surprised ppl haven't figured that out by now...

 

What I didn't like from last Sat. is that it appeared that Brice lacked focus. I hope that was just a blip.

[basketballjones]

Wilson Moore asked a pretty poignant question to Coach Hoiberg during his press conference yesterday. Hoiberg called it (Moore's question), "the best question he's asked in the 3 years he's (Moore) been here." 

 

It was essentially, "when do you decide to throw everything out and start with something new/when do you press the panic button early in the season/how do you decide to stick with what you're doing and just do it better?" I'm paraphrasing cause I don't have the exact question.

 

I thought Hoiberg hit the answer out of the park, and such is the difficulty in coaching. Said he's been up all night the last couple nights pondering this question. It really is an impossible question to definitively answer, and at the end of the day you're just making an educated guess. I can't think of how many times I've gone into a half-time of a game and asked myself, "do we need to change what we're doing or do we need to do what we're supposed to be doing better?" Impossible to ever know in the moment, and only the results dictate the answer. 

[bball23]

So much good discussion in this thread!!!

 

I'm anxious/excited to get back on the court tomorrow night.  Then we are making the trip down the South Dakota to watch the Men/Women's games.  Very excited to see how we do and excited for the venue.

 

Another thing to remind some that are hitting the "panic" button.  Bad games are going to happen.  They just are.  Basketball is just such an "odd" sport in the sense that sometimes for whatever reason the ball doesn't go in the hoop.  Its why upsets in basketball happen ALL the time!

 

I was watching scores last night.

 

Alabama, ranked #2 in the entire county gets by McNese State by EIGHT points!  This is the #2 team in the country, how can that happen?  Maybe they played down to the level of the opponent, maybe they were missing shots and McNese got hot?  Who knows.  

 

Purdue....gets by Yale by EIGHT points.  Again...who knows?

 

Marquette gets past Central Michigan by EIGHT points....

 

Rutgers beat 0-3 Saint Peters by 10 points.

 

Oklahoma was trailing Northwestern State by 6 at the 1/2. They ended up winning big, but again.

 

Point being.  Do we have some issues to fix...absolutely!  Are the fixable?  I'd like to think so.  I remember Fred in the pre game talk with Kent/Jake was talking about how already 3 Big East schools have lost to "buy in" teams and you always hope to win those games.  To this point, we haven't lost yet and last year we did a great job of avoiding the "buy in" loss.

 

Its a LONG season.  I'm excited to see how this team gels as the year goes on.  I do think we have a shot to be a very good defensive team which that alone will at least keep us in games.

 

Hopefully tomorrow we look much more "clean" and have some flow to the game offensively and get some good mojo going into the weekend vs Saint Mary's.

[hhcmatt]

Brice is the one guy on the team where can shoot whatever we wants and over the course of a season it's going to fall in about 40% from 3 and 50% from 2.  In a lot of regards his production is remarkably consistent.   I think the frustration boils down to him just going Toney McCray at moments and throwing the ball to the other team or some other random brain fart thing you don't want to see from the guy who is supposed to be your best player.  

[hhcmatt]

Hoiberg on the post game show

 

"There is a lack of trust going on right now and we gotta figure it out. We're doing a lot of things in games right now that we aren't doing in practice"

 

"We got a group of kids, I promise you that,  and they're not doing anything with any kind of malicious intent and we gotta find a way and obviously get better offensive flow on the other end"

 

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

Wilson Moore asked a pretty poignant question to Coach Hoiberg during his press conference yesterday. Hoiberg called it (Moore's question), "the best question he's asked in the 3 years he's (Moore) been here." 

 

It was essentially, "when do you decide to throw everything out and start with something new/when do you press the panic button early in the season/how do you decide to stick with what you're doing and just do it better?" I'm paraphrasing cause I don't have the exact question.

 

I thought Hoiberg hit the answer out of the park, and such is the difficulty in coaching. Said he's been up all night the last couple nights pondering this question. It really is an impossible question to definitively answer, and at the end of the day you're just making an educated guess. I can't think of how many times I've gone into a half-time of a game and asked myself, "do we need to change what we're doing or do we need to do what we're supposed to be doing better?" Impossible to ever know in the moment, and only the results dictate the answer. 

 

 

To me the panic one might be feeling and the one that Hoiberg seems to be feeling is that he has a group of guys that might not meld together to their high potential.  If you're concerned, you have a reason to be.

 

On the flip side, this is game 2.  We scheduled these kind of games specifically because putting this together very well might take time.  If you're not concerned, you have a reason to be.

 

College basketball, it's a beautiful game.

[Fullbacksympathy]

It’s a much better sign to look at the team and find out why it hasn’t quite clicked yet vs looking at the team and seeing we don’t have the talent to compete.  
 

Basketball is also a game of matchups.  I think our size should hold up in the B1G over the course of a season.  
 

Also, that’s two straight games with good defense.  Don’t forget we’re playing good defense.   

[hhcmatt]

Box Score

 

[hhcmatt]

Notes from UNL

 

• Nebraska has now won 14 straight games at home dating back to last season
• Nebraska has now won 23 straight games when holding an opponent under 70 points, including 29-2 over the last two-plus seasons. The time Nebraska lost a game when holding an opponent under 70 points was against Purdue in 2022.
• Nebraska forced 22 turnovers, the most since forcing 22 turnovers at Michigan State on Feb. 6, 2021. It ties for the second-highest number of opponent turners in Fred Hoiberg’s five-plus seasons at Nebraska.
• Nebraska has forced 20+ turnovers in both games this season
• Nebraska finished with 11 steals, including a career-high five from Juwan Gary. Gary's previous high in steals was four at Kansas State last season. NU's 11 steals were its highest total since recording 15 against Indiana on Jan. 3, 2024. Gary also led NU with 11 points
• Brice Williams finished with 10 points, snapping a streak of four straight 20-point games dating back to last season.