Offseason Potpourri

[Thattimeofyear4]

Ik Ik I'm still a newcomer to this nebrasketball and all lol
But I guess I'm more of an optimist
And it's a lot of pieces to try and put together but I think this kinda
new "core group" has been together for awhile
I know not all playing together but has been together as a team
If that makes any sense.
I'm pretty sure they all are on the same page already.

The guys that are coming in
the "transfers"
Im preferring to call them trades kinda? Think I saw that on here or somewhere?
But anyway the trades know why they are here and are happy and willing to do it
The more I think about it anyway I'd be crazy not too pick them to go that far

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[hskr4life]

Team Red                                                Team White

 

1. Watson                                                 1.  Allen

2. Horne                                                   2.  Palmer 

3. Roby/McVeigh                                      3.  Nana

4. Ed/MJ                                                   4. Copeland

5. Jordy/MJ                                               5. Duby

 

Who ya got?  Honestly, I believe that it would be really close.  So with the guys we have added and taking away the guys that we lost, I would say we are right back to where we were before if not ahead by a little bit.  We lost Horne and will fill with Palmer.  We lost Ed and MJ and will fill with Copeland and Duby.  

[Norm Peterson]

Agree w/ Ttoy4.

 

Palmer and Copeland haven't just been hibernating this past year.  They've at the very least been attending practices and film sessions, and, in the case of Palmer, actually practicing.  Look what happened with Andrew White when he came off his redshirt year.  Didn't take him a semester to get going.  (Some of you might say, yeah, but Anton Gill ..., and my response is I'm not convinced Anton was ever 100% healthy this last season; he did NOT look like the guy I saw rip the nets in an open scrimmage the fall after he left Louisville.)

 

Also, let's be fair to our offense a little bit with the "does Miles have the pieces finally" stuff.  The offense needs to have certain pieces in order to click, but this team scored 71 against #14 UCLA and 72 at #3 KU.  They also went into Assembly Hall and scored 87.

 

What you have to have is a couple of guys who can get to the rim (Webster and Watson) and a couple of guys who can bury it from deep (White and McVeigh) and then a big man who can clean up the offensive glass and get putbacks or receive a dish from one of the guys getting to the rim (Morrow or Jacobson.). I think if last year's team had had White, it would have changed the entire complexion of our offense, our season, people's long-range view of the program, etc. etc.

 

This coming season, we'll have a couple of guys who can drive (Watson, Roby, Allen) and a couple of guys who can bomb away from deep (Watson, Palmer, McVeigh, Copeland, Akenten, Allen) as well as, now, a couple of guys who are capable of cleaning the glass and hanging out for the dish (Jordy, Duby.)

 

We would have had the pieces last year.  I think we'll have even more pieces this year.

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Norm Peterson

[uneblinstu]

Team Red has a bench. They have the edge.

[Norm Peterson]

17 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

Team Red                                                Team White

 

1. Watson                                                 1.  Allen

2. Horne                                                   2.  Palmer 

3. Roby/McVeigh                                      3.  Nana

4. Ed/MJ                                                   4. Copeland

5. Jordy/MJ                                               5. Duby

 

Who ya got?  Honestly, I believe that it would be really close.  So with the guys we have added and taking away the guys that we lost, I would say we are right back to where we were before if not ahead by a little bit.  We lost Horne and will fill with Palmer.  We lost Ed and MJ and will fill with Copeland and Duby.  

 

So, you're saying if we hadn't lost anyone and the veterans all returned and took on the newcomers in a scrimmage, who would win?  Is that how you've divided this out?

 

Because I don't think Horne is a 2.  I think your 2 in this scenario is Anton Gill when he recovers from surgery, which I hope he does but have my concerns.  

 

All 4 of the guys who left would probably have been in the 4-5 group.  And that includes Fuller.

 

I will say that Team White -- 1 senior, 2 juniors and 2 freshmen -- is a lot more veteran group than some of the groupings we've fielded in actual games in recent years.

[hskr4life]

30 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

So, you're saying if we hadn't lost anyone and the veterans all returned and took on the newcomers in a scrimmage, who would win?  Is that how you've divided this out?

 

Because I don't think Horne is a 2.  I think your 2 in this scenario is Anton Gill when he recovers from surgery, which I hope he does but have my concerns.  

 

All 4 of the guys who left would probably have been in the 4-5 group.  And that includes Fuller.

 

I will say that Team White -- 1 senior, 2 juniors and 2 freshmen -- is a lot more veteran group than some of the groupings we've fielded in actual games in recent years.

 

Yeah, just looking at net gain vs net loss.  We lost Ed, MJ, Horne, and Fuller.  We filled with Allen, Palmer, Nana, Copeland, and Duby.  I would say that we are pretty even from a net gain/loss standpoint.  We gained more threats, but lost experience playing together.

[Norm Peterson]

Copeland, Allen, Palmer, Akenten, Okeke >>>> Morrow, Jacobson, Horne, Fuller.

 

That's a 5-star, two 4-stars, a Rivals 150 plus whatever Duby was compared to one 4-star, a 150 kid and two unranked guys.

 

If recruiting rankings mean anything, then clear advantage to the newcomers.

[mrjam]

4 hours ago, Thattimeofyear4 said:

The question I have is does Miles have the pieces for his system to be successful now.
I guess I'm not understanding all the fire him talk either
it may be taking longer to win but man it is hard to build a culture of winning somewhere that's never really had 1
I'd imagine.


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Amen, couldn't have been written better.

[hhcmatt]

On 4/20/2017 at 8:56 AM, hhcdimes said:

 

 

 

 

 

A response

 

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/barfknecht-transfers-are-the-way-of-the-world-including-nebraska/article_d29e0d92-a3af-5099-8c66-354ebae32b58.html

[brfrad]

1 hour ago, hhcdimes said:

 

A response

 

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/barfknecht-transfers-are-the-way-of-the-world-including-nebraska/article_d29e0d92-a3af-5099-8c66-354ebae32b58.html

I don't quite understand Lee's comparison of Copeland to Morrow and MJ.  Copeland was going to be on the team regardless of EM and MJ.

 

We have fielded basically a new team before and it worked.  In 2013 - 14, we returned Shields, Benny, Rivers, and Rey.  Newcomers were Terran, Walter, Hawkins, Webster, and Leslie.  Looking at our roster, this year, we seem to have better returning players, and better newcomers.  We also had a team the following year, which returned basically the whole team, and we're terrible. 

[hskr4life]

2 minutes ago, brfrad said:

I don't quite understand Lee's comparison of Copeland to Morrow and MJ.  Copeland was going to be on the team regardless of EM and MJ.

 

We have fielded basically a new team before and it worked.  In 2013 - 14, we returned Shields, Benny, Rivers, and Rey.  Newcomers were Terran, Walter, Hawkins, Webster, and Leslie.  Looking at our roster, this year, we seem to have better returning players, and better newcomers.  We also had a team the following year, which returned basically the whole team, and we're terrible. 

 

Maybe talking in terms of production vs. possibly production.  I took it as we are losing the stats of Jacobson, Ed, and Horne and going to try and replace those with Copeland, Dube, and Allen.  However, he probably could of included Palmer and Nana in there as well.

[nustudent]

3 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

Copeland, Allen, Palmer, Akenten, Okeke >>>> Morrow, Jacobson, Horne, Fuller.

 

That's a 5-star, two 4-stars, a Rivals 150 plus whatever Duby was compared to one 4-star, a 150 kid and two unranked guys.

 

If recruiting rankings mean anything, then clear advantage to the newcomers.

True, if you consider Copeland and Palmer newcomers.  But technically...Copeland and Palmer were enrolled at the same time as those others and were all set to be on the same team next year, so one can easily make a case that they aren't technically replacements.

 

Personally, I'd just assume have had Fuller and Horne left and only signed Allen.   We needed Okeke for depth but wouldn't have chosen him over MJ or Morrow.

[Norm Peterson]

33 minutes ago, nustudent said:

True, if you consider Copeland and Palmer newcomers.  But technically...Copeland and Palmer were enrolled at the same time as those others and were all set to be on the same team next year, so one can easily make a case that they aren't technically replacements.

 

Personally, I'd just assume have had Fuller and Horne left and only signed Allen.   We needed Okeke for depth but wouldn't have chosen him over MJ or Morrow.

 

Perhaps, but that wasn't the question or the way it was presented.  The way the question was presented is whether we're upgrading the talent over last year with all the newcomers versus the guys who transferred away. 

 

Hsker4life thought it was a push basically between the guys who left and the players we added who weren't eligible last season.  He's got a point about experience, but I think the overall talent of the players we've added since last year is better than the overall talent of the guys who left early.

[hhcmatt]

3 hours ago, nustudent said:

We needed Okeke for depth but wouldn't have chosen him over MJ or Morrow.

 

Absolutely. Other than shot blocking, both MJ and Morrow are more skilled and other than Ed's feet they were reliable.

It's really about how much time Jordy can play. Who are we going to plug in when Jordy and Okeke have 2 fouls a piece with 7 minutes to go in the first half?

[Huskerpapa]

Here is another way of looking at things; Jordy actually replaces Ed.  Going into this past season, Ed was considered the starter and Jordy was considered back up.  Many on this board were simply hoping Jordy could see some minutes and improve.  Well, he improved...a lot.  Jordy should see 24 to 28 minutes per game.  So, we need a back up to play 12 to 16 minutes a game.  Would Ed or MJ really want to see that limited time?  I think not.

 

So then you may ask, well we could have had MJ and Ed playing at the 4, right?  Sure, but again, if Mr. Copeland is as good as billed, and if Isaiah continues to improve and if Jack finds his mojo, then time available at the four is going to be limited as well.  Then of course you will have Hans joining us, and then what?

 

I am not going to say we won't miss MJ and Ed (gawd knows how much I appreciated MJ), but the changes that are occurring may be the best thing that could ever have happened.  And I will also mention, we were 12-19 last season, perhaps the team chemistry was lacking more than many of us realized. 

 

Of course, will Copeland be healthy, will Isaiah continue to improve, will Jack find his shot, will Jordy continue to improve, will Glynn find consistency, will Palmer meet expectations, will Anton get and stay healthy, will Nana and Thomas be anywhere close to what we anticipate, et al.

Edited April 25, 2017 by huskercwg

[Norm Peterson]

Good post CWG, and good questions.

 

I don't have a magic crystal ball.  Magic 8 ball is about as good as it gets with me.

 

But, having said that, I think there's good reason that the BTN folks named Jordy as one of their breakout players for this coming season.  He has a lot of tools to go along with fantastic size and a great work ethic.  He was raw at the beginning of last season and just improved by leaps and bounds.  I suspect the player who takes the floor for us this fall will be virtually unrecognizable compared to his beginning freshman self.

 

Copeland has put up some numbers already that give us a barometer of what we can probably anticipate there.  Palmer is sounding like a better shooter than he had the chance to prove at Miami.  Same thing happened to Andrew White, so it's not out of the question that Palmer could produce a sizable increase in perimeter accuracy.  Will he?  Who knows.

 

I do know this: We won't have room for all the guys who could get a lot better to show it.  Only 200 minutes per game to spread among an entire roster and some will play a lot and some only a little.  I think our starters will all be improvements over their 2016-17 counterparts except for the SG position (Tai.). And I think our depth will be better.  Bench scoring should improve.

 

Biggest jumps we might see are team 3-point shooting % and 3-point shooting defense.  If that happens, we could be pretty good.

[Norm Peterson]

Here's something interesting.

 

Our team 3-pt % last year was 32.0, which was good enough for 303rd out of 347 D1 programs.  If we improve our 3-pt % by 5 percentage points to 37%, it would move us up into the top 80 teams but only result in 2.7 more points per game (just a shade under 1 additional make per game.)

 

Our team 3-pt defense last year was 39.9, which placed us 345th out of 347 D1 teams.  If we improve our 3-pt defense by 5 percentage points to 34.9%, it would move us to about number 180 out of 347.  And that would make a difference of about 2.9 points per game.

 

But add those two figures together and it's a swing of almost 6 points per game.  It would push our scoring average to 72.9 and our defensive average to 70.1.

 

Given the influx of shooters that we're going to have and the fact that, with an emerging Jordy Tshimanga, we won't have to double the post as much on defense, I think those differences are reachable.

 

It's going to be really interesting to see how all of this unfolds.  This team might not end up being much better than they were a couple of years ago.  But then again, they might be a whole lot better.  I think we finally have a full array of pieces to play around with.

[AuroranHusker]

I thought Copeland would take a ton of minutes at the 4 and Tshimanga at the 5, so is it really all *that* surprising that MJ & Eddie moved on?! Really, it is not that complicated.... I didn't think enough "minutes" were left before they transferred, and after a month's reflection I *really* don't think so. It all sort of worked itself out. MJ & Eddie were good, but the fit with the rest of the players may not have been exactly what Nebrasketball needed going forward. It's okay to change things up, and I'm perfectly fine with the end result. Defined roles will likely be fairly smooth, for the most part. Guess we'll find out exactly how it all shakes out in due time. GBR

 

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by AuroranHusker

[Fullbacksympathy]

If you look at likely starters/bench vs. last year:

 

Starters:

Watson (Jr) > Watson (So)

Allen < Tai (although this may be closer to a wash than some might think based on Allen's shooting/scoring ability)

Copeland > Taylor

Roby > Jacobson (hell, I thought Roby deserved Jacobson's starting spot last year, but this is close to a wash, I guess)

Jordy (So) > Morrow/Jordy (Fr)

 

Pretty big improvement here.  Morrow is sort of the outlier, as I still think he was misused at the 5 and would've been a better 4 than Roby or Jacobson.  I still maintain that Copeland is a 3, or at the very least a 3-4 swing player interchangeable with Roby.  

 

Bench

McVeigh (Jr) > McVeigh (So)

Taylor > Horne

Nana > Gill 

Palmer > any walkon 

Okeke < Jordy/Morrow

 

-----

 

A sidenote:  I don't really like grouping "Ed and MJ" when referring to our transfer losses.  They aren't even close to the same caliber of player.  MJ just isn't that good, as much as he may deserve to be.  Morrow, on the other hand, is the real deal (though flawed), and losing him sucks.  

[JBARGIE]

16 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

 

A response

 

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/barfknecht-transfers-are-the-way-of-the-world-including-nebraska/article_d29e0d92-a3af-5099-8c66-354ebae32b58.html

 

Anyone notice that Lee never mentioned James Palmer once? Especially when comparing apples to apples it would have made much more sense to stack Palmer up to Horne, instead of Allen. I hope there is nothing to it but maybe Lee knows something that we don't...

[jimmykc]

Pretty astute observation for a first time poster.Is Barfy sending a subliminal message? Hmmmm...

[Thattimeofyear4]

Maybe he was enjoying doobie too much and forgot


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[hhcmatt]

2 hours ago, JBARGIE said:

 

Anyone notice that Lee never mentioned James Palmer once? Especially when comparing apples to apples it would have made much more sense to stack Palmer up to Horne, instead of Allen. I hope there is nothing to it but maybe Lee knows something that we don't...

 

He was comparing outgoing to incoming and Copeland was a bit of a stretch comparison to slot in since we have yet to fill our other two scholarships. 

I'll note the irony of speculating about the lack of mention of a player in an article lambasting player rumors. 

[bkamler]

21 hours ago, hskr4life said:

 

Yeah, just looking at net gain vs net loss.  We lost Ed, MJ, Horne, and Fuller.  We filled with Allen, Palmer, Nana, Copeland, and Duby.  I would say that we are pretty even from a net gain/loss standpoint.  We gained more threats, but lost experience playing together.

Netting out by subtraction and addition I would suggest that we will be much improved on offense, a little worse on defense and rebounding and probably misding some full out hustle that Fuller, Jacobson and Morrow provided.

[big red22]

14 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

 

Absolutely. Other than shot blocking, both MJ and Morrow are more skilled and other than Ed's feet they were reliable.

It's really about how much time Jordy can play. Who are we going to plug in when Jordy and Okeke have 2 fouls a piece with 7 minutes to go in the first half?

Tanner B. of course