Padding the Stats: Finding an Identity

[Norm Peterson]

30 minutes ago, Blindcheck said:

When i have talked to some friends about Nebrasketball (friends that follow it, but not very passionately) and they ask me why hasn't Miles been able to replicate his tourney team in his second season, what I have told them is that he really has.

 

When I watch his teams today and his team in the tourney year, they aren't that much different....the only difference is they rode a wave and a player (petteway) into the tourney....and the shots Petteway made in some of those wins, if you ask me were horrible shots, but they went in...and wins resulted.

 

I really don't think that team was that much better than what we saw this year...it just found ways to win.

 

I remember commenting at the time to the effect that Petteway hits shots most other players are afraid to even take and his ability to score in so many different ways would be an asset that we should enjoy while we have it and will miss when we no longer do.  His ability to get shots to drop from creating his own offense was a rare gift.

[hhcmatt]

2 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

Personally, I think the most natural born leader on the team is Jordy, at least from the guys that played last year. Taylor has some of that in him, too. And perhaps, Gill. But none of them will be the focal point of anything we do. Can your "alpha dog" be a guy that isn't an upperclassman, your star or even a main contributor? If Glynn can find that, he'll take his game to the next level.

 

Barkley mentioned once during a podcast that the difference between good and great players is that the great players make everyone else around them better.

[uneblinstu]

Charles Barkley? The guy who puts his TV on a clapper?

[nustudent]

9 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

I remember commenting at the time to the effect that Petteway hits shots most other players are afraid to even take and his ability to score in so many different ways would be an asset that we should enjoy while we have it and will miss when we no longer do.  His ability to get shots to drop from creating his own offense was a rare gift.

That was a big part of it...but the team was also a little more well rounded.   Petteway and Gallegos and Pitchford can all extend the defense.   Petteway and Shields could both drive and get to the rim.   Pitchford, at times, and Smith could both finish inside.   They could score in a variety of manners.   Miles teams since then could do 1 or 2, but not all 3 of those things.    Coupled with a declining defensive effort and there you go.

[basketballjones]

@hhcdimes So, basically, Miles's teams to be successful require very good individual talent (rocket science statement, I know). But what I mean by that is that he needs great finishers and guys who can shoot of the dribble. 

Assists aren't the end all, be all of good basketball. Something that concerns me more than assists is the fact that we were tied for 304th spot in 3pt attempts this season. Not a lot of great teams on page 7 of 3pt attempts. Of course, that does not imply that all the good teams are on page 1 either. Obviously, it's the teams that are multi-faceted and have multiple ways to score, that landed on page 2-4 who had success this year. 

To me, low 3pt attempts says to me that we have average players attempting to make wild plays at the rim/in the paint and jump shots. That works when you're Duke (the team you're using for assist numbers example), and you have 5-star athletes who can make elite plays at the rim and 1on1 style jump shots. But Duke was also on that first page of 3pt attempts - telling me that they either really got the rim - or they really kicked it out and shoot it. 

 

We're just dribbling, driving, and apparently not making tough shots. We have to find a way to shoot more kick outs 3's. We keep saying we don't have guys who can hit 3's - how do we know that? When we're in the 300's in 3pt attempts - I feel like we're selling ourselves short. 

[Norm Peterson]

It's almost self-evident to say but it bears saying anyway:  If you aren't getting a lot of assists, then you either aren't scoring very much or you rely a lot on guys being able to make individual plays.  And you can win with either style -- either a style that gets a lot of baskets off assists or a style where you employ a couple o Terran Petteways to beat their guy off the dribble.  But I think basketballjones makes a great point.  A dribble drive motion can involve assists.  When your point guard beats his man and forces help, it's going to open up a kick out usually to the weakside corner or wing, or you get the dish to your big man at the rim.  Those options would directly pad your assist numbers.  And our problem in the past is that we've had guys who are afraid to take that kick-out 3.  Just watch film from about any game in the last few seasons.  Our guys spotting up in the corners are getting open looks ... and then passing out of them instead of taking the shot.  It's not surprising we're toward the bottom in attempts.  And if players were taking those shots (and converting a decent number) you'd see our assist numbers go way up.

 

Hopefully, the influx of shooters coming in will have that effect.

[bkamler]

Maybe it's just me but who was the last point guard that we had at Nebraska who regularely penetrated into the defense, which in turn caused it to collapse, which in turn left a "big" open for an easy dish off and also usually left a three point shooter wide open?

 

Our drivers usually get their shoot blocked or turn it over or get into a jump ball situation, only scoring occasionally. Rarely do they dish it off or dish it out in a productive manner which should happen almost every time.

 

Also, overall, our passes are sloppy as they are high, low or off to the side which throws the shooters timing and balance off. Sort of the Tommy Armstrong school of passing. 

 

Just some ranting from an old point guard.

[hhcmatt]

 

14 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

We're just dribbling, driving, and apparently not making tough shots. We have to find a way to shoot more kick outs 3's. We keep saying we don't have guys who can hit 3's - how do we know that? When we're in the 300's in 3pt attempts - I feel like we're selling ourselves short. 

 

We were a poor shooting team that couldn't regularly get to the FT line.  In that regards, shooting more 3s makes a lot of sense.

Who did you want shooting them this year....besides Andrew White?

 

 

Miles is a guy trying to run drive everything towards the rim. On his teams that shoot a lot of 3s (for him) or make a high percentage of shots his A% and 3PA% are going to be middle of the pack at best. The biggest problem I'm noticing is that most of Miles' good teams made it to the FT line because the last two years we haven't and I'm not sure which guys are going to create that contact this year.

 

Given we're bringing in more shooting it would seem that we should change our mindset of driving to the lane from

1-shoot 2-get fouled 3-pass to the corner 3 to

1-shoot 2-pass to the corner 3 3-get fouled

 

It would also help if Isaiah Roby could turn into Petteway-lite in terms of driving to the hoop because he certainly has the size and vision to not only finish but to find those 3pt shooters. 

[hhcmatt]

2 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

Charles Barkley? The guy who puts his TV on a clapper?

 

He has his moments

[Huskerpapa]

3 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

Personally, I think the most natural born leader on the team is Jordy, at least from the guys that played last year. Taylor has some of that in him, too. And perhaps, Gill. But none of them will be the focal point of anything we do. Can your "alpha dog" be a guy that isn't an upperclassman, your star or even a main contributor? If Glynn can find that, he'll take his game to the next level.

Jordy seems to be the most outgoing/talkative.  I am not certain that makes him a leader, but I am betting that he speaks his mind.  My understanding that the no nonsense/get it done player on the team is Evan.  Has anyone else heard his name come up?

[uneblinstu]

Jordy's more than that. He's got a magnetic personality to him. And he has a strong desire to get better. People will follow that. Everything I've seen and heard about the kid screams leader to me.

 

Evan was one of the more vocal guys on the floor last year, initiating huddles and such after fouls, that type of thing. I don't know what he's like off the floor. He's going to be a role player, though, even if he starts, that's what he'll be. How often does your leadership come from that kind of player?

 

[Huskerpapa]

5 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

Jordy's more than that. He's got a magnetic personality to him. And he has a strong desire to get better. People will follow that. Everything I've seen and heard about the kid screams leader to me.

 

Evan was one of the more vocal guys on the floor last year, initiating huddles and such after fouls, that type of thing. I don't know what he's like off the floor. He's going to be a role player, though, even if he starts, that's what he'll be. How often does your leadership come from that kind of player?

 

Hard for a true sophomore to be a leader of a team.  A role player can certainly be a leader if he is respected by his teammates. 

[bobcat402]

3 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

Personally, I think the most natural born leader on the team is Jordy, at least from the guys that played last year. Taylor has some of that in him, too. And perhaps, Gill. But none of them will be the focal point of anything we do. Can your "alpha dog" be a guy that isn't an upperclassman, your star or even a main contributor? If Glynn can find that, he'll take his game to the next level.

I like this and i think with some continued skill development, and strength, their may not be a better crunch time option than Jordy next year, he has size over almost every center in the big ten, we could come up with worse plays, than to clear the post and let Jordy ISO next season 

[uneblinstu]

9 minutes ago, huskercwg said:

Hard for a true sophomore to be a leader of a team.  A role player can certainly be a leader if he is respected by his teammates. 

Then why can't a sophomore?

[Huskerpapa]

3 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

Then why can't a sophomore?

Who said he couldn't???  I simply said it was hard to be.  I also don't personally know Jordy, but you must?  I am just not sure who the leader is.  I heard that Isaiah (out of the three freshmen) was a leader with that group, reaching out to them and so forth.  So you must have some inside information that makes my conjecture less credible than yours.

 

[jayschool]

1 hour ago, uneblinstu said:

Then why can't a sophomore?

 

[uneblinstu]

1 hour ago, huskercwg said:

Who said he couldn't???  I simply said it was hard to be.  I also don't personally know Jordy, but you must?  I am just not sure who the leader is.  I heard that Isaiah (out of the three freshmen) was a leader with that group, reaching out to them and so forth.  So you must have some inside information that makes my conjecture less credible than yours.

 

We're not buddies, but I've been around the team enough to see the potential there. Not sure if he'll get there this year or not or ever.

[Blindcheck]

I know it is different talent levels...but when you play pickup ball it is obvious which guys can hit the last bucket and which guys can't.

 

when the score is 6-4, everybody shoots and there isn't much pressure, but when it is game point...so many guys tighten up and can't make the final shot...while other guys, even if they aren't the best shooters in the gym invevitably score the final bucket in game after game.

 

I think at every level of basketball, you see this....the first 35 minutes of a game should be judged totally different than the last 5....because some players disappear in the last 5 minutes.

[Chuck Taylor]

On 4/24/2017 at 3:23 PM, basketballjones said:

Article from Jacob Padilla on Hail Varsity. Jacob is a really good dude who is an absolute hoops nerd/junkie (meant as a compliment). Nothing we haven't discussed here on HHC but it's a nice article, nonetheless. 

 

https://hailvarsity.com/s/1387/padding-the-stats-finding-an-identity

The A.D. apparently agrees with this.

Quote

“Strategy for sure,’’ Eichorst continued. “We’ve got to find our identity. We’ve talked a lot about that over the course of the last year.’’

 

[Norm Peterson]

9 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

The A.D. apparently agrees with this.

 

 

Sure, but that's an acorn so massive a blind squirrel would have a hard time not finding it. 

[Norm Peterson]

12 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

The A.D. apparently agrees with this.

 

 

And Pimp Mario said basically the same thing 3 Januaries ago.  I don't give Padilla a lot of credit for insight on this one.

 

 

[basketballjones]

If anyone is interested in my opinion on an area that needs to be fixed and you will see results..... anyone.... anyone...?

 

Ok you pulled my leg, it's offensive transition. And I'm on year 6 now of complaining about this. In general, I've noticed that good teams - regardless of tempo - either get a great look in the first 6 seconds of a possession or they then look to work the ball around a bit and spend some time distorting the defense to get a paint touch for lay ups or to create kick out potential. 

 

And it's not even about scoring early or fast. A great, purposeful, aggressively ran offensive transition game can put the defense on their heels from the start of the possession. I've seen very little purpose, defined structure, or sense of urgency in the way we attack in transition. Getting three guys to run hard, 1 right at the rim look to get over the top passes, or seal off of kick aheads, and 2 guys sprinting wing lanes to the corner - you can really flatten the defense early and put them in reactive mode. 

 

Can't walk the ball up and run a set every possession. Allows the defense to get in a rhythm. Good point guards know how to push the ball, see if they're going to score or get a good look early, then pull it out and get their team set. Which is a lot easier to do now because you've already made them guard "something."

Edited April 26, 2017 by basketballjones

[Chuck Taylor]

11 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

And Pimp Mario said basically the same thing 3 Januaries ago.  I don't give Padilla a lot of credit for insight on this one.

 

 

Well, I seem to sense some doubts about Jacob Padilla's insights so I thought it was interesting that Eichorst said the same thing. I'm never going to post a dozen times a day and go back three years to see what somebody said, so you win the day, I guess. 

[Norm Peterson]

Chuck, there's an easy to use search function on this site so you don't have to dig around three years of posts.  I just searched "offensive identity" and voila.

[hhcmatt]

22 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

Jordy's more than that. He's got a magnetic personality to him. And he has a strong desire to get better. People will follow that. Everything I've seen and heard about the kid screams leader to me.

 

If Jordy can take on that mantle this will be a better team.