Future Expectations Poll

[Norm Peterson]

We were pretty good under Yori.   A change was made and some are OK with it; others not.  But, regardless of whether you agree with the move or not, I'm willing to assume for the sake of discussion that the move was warranted.  Still, the new coach was not inheriting a garbage program but rather one that was at or near the top of the league, not very far removed from a Big Ten Tourney title run and a Sweet 16 appearance.

 

With the coaching change came some disruption in the program with some recruits deciding not to come and a significant contributor transferring.  Therefore, it's a little hard to criticize the new coach too much for what is clearly a disappointing record this season.

 

What are the reasonable expectations going forward?  As a fan of this program, how quickly do you feel the new coach -- whoever she is, and she happens to be Amy Williams -- should have us back to the level we were at before this turmoil began?

Edited February 28, 2017 by Norm Peterson

[HB]

Interesting topic, Norm.

 

In the short term (next 2 years, as per your poll), I expect us to improve several games next year, and even more the following year, if we have no transfers by any of the top 3 or 4 players ( It isn't hard to pick out a handful who we desperately need to retain going into the next two years).   Athleticism should be much better next year,  as well as improved guard play.  We really didn't have a true point this year, and lacked either experience or talent at the guard/wing positions.   That should be much better next year, and I have high hopes for Stallworth making a big difference.   I also expect improvement due to players who will be getting minutes having another year experience with this staff and the system, and I expect a better effort in the off-season from the players with regard to conditioning.   On the down side, we will have zero post depth (barring a flipping of the switch by Washington).  Blackburn will need to come back strong.  Mitchell really isn't a post.  The posts will wear down by tournament time.  Surprised there wasn't an attempt to get a juco or grad transfer in who could give us at least a serviceable big.  

 

The second year could be really good, assuming retention and improvement by key returnees.   Shepherd as a senior could be a incredible force if she puts in the effort on conditioning and free throws.   Stallworth as an experienced senior, Kissinger with a season under her belt and improved strength,  Nicea with improved shooting to go along with her athleticism, defensive skills and court awareness.  Blackburn and hopefully a recruited big or 2.   

 

Long term, I don't know enough and haven't seen enough to predict.  I am very interested in watching the next two recruiting classes come together.   Will also be watching to see if strides are made in off-season player development and conditioning/body shaping, compared to the past off season.   

[Norm Peterson]

The team struggled a great deal last year and there was a lot of internal strife and lack of team chemistry.  Yet, they still went 18-13 overall and 9-9 in the Big Ten.  The year before that, they won 21 games and were 10-8 in the league.  The several years before that, they were even better.

 

How many years should the new coach get to return the program to the level it was at when the last coach left?  Coach Williams is responsible now for who she puts on the floor, so let's just say the what-ifs about Shepard getting into condition or whomever improving in whatever way are not material to the point of this particular question.

 

I'm not asking how good do you think they actually will be next year; I'm asking more how good do you think a Husker women's team ought to be in the 2nd and 3rd years of a new coach who follows on the heals of a successful run by the former coach.

 

That's more what I'm asking.

 

[swmckewon]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

the new coach was not inheriting a garbage program but rather one that was at or near the top of the league, not very far removed from a Big Ten Tourney title run and a Sweet 16 appearance.

 

In years, it was not very far removed. In terms of health of the program, it was very far removed. 

 

[HB]

13 minutes ago, swmckewon said:

 

In years, it was not very far removed. In terms of health of the program, it was very far removed. 

 

 

You state that as fact, but it is clearly an opinion.  And not a very solid one either.  Recruiting was happening at a high level, and the coaching ability was obviously proven.  Staff turnover had been a  problem, but Brown was a move in the right direction.  improved.  If the program isn't blown up, you have Shepherd, Romeo, Eilely, Cayton and Doyle.  A pretty good nucleus to work with.   But that is all tangible stuff, vs. intangible drivel about chemistry and the like we read about on here a year ago.  

[swmckewon]

7 minutes ago, HB said:

 

You state that as fact, but it is clearly an opinion.  And not a very solid one either.  

In terms of what Amy Williams inherited? Oh, it's a pretty solid fact. 

 

You're talking about, I guess, the theoretical parallel universe where none of what happened, happened, and Yori's still at Nebraska. 

 

But, when Amy took over - which is what Norm wrote - Nat had already said what she'd said. The investigation had been done. Sides had been chosen. That's what Amy walked into - a broken, divided program. That's what she took over. It was far removed from any Big Ten title atmosphere, I assure you. 

 

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, swmckewon said:

In terms of what Amy Williams inherited? Oh, it's a pretty solid fact. 

 

You're talking about, I guess, the theoretical parallel universe where none of what happened, happened, and Yori's still at Nebraska. 

 

But, when Amy took over - which is what Norm wrote - Nat had already said what she'd said. The investigation had been done. Sides had been chosen. That's what Amy walked into - a broken, divided program. That's what she took over. It was far removed from any Big Ten title atmosphere, I assure you. 

 

 

That might all be true.  But, let's step back a further step to when the decision was made to axe the coach.  I said at the time that you don't replace someone with the program in that posture (before "sides had been chosen" and all that) with the expectation of a rebuild.  You do so with the expectation that whoever the new coach is will carry things forward from there. 

 

Part of YOUR justification, Sam McKewon, for being OK with pushing Connie out was the fact that, in your opinion, she'd maxed out. 

 

Well, you don't make that kind of a change with the expectation of going down hill.  And, if crazy down hill is where you went, then someone fucked up.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Norm Peterson

[swmckewon]

3 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

That might all be true.  But, let's step back a further step to when the decision was made to axe the coach.  I said at the time that you don't replace someone with the program in that posture (before "sides had been chosen" and all that) with the expectation of a rebuild.  You do so with the expectation that whoever the new coach is will carry things forward from there. 

 

Part of YOUR justification, Sam McKewon, for being OK with pushing Connie out was the fact that, in your opinion, she'd maxed out. 

 

Well, you don't make that kind of a change with the expectation of going down hill.  

 

Whether or not Yori had maxed out is, frankly, a matter of opinion. I can't recall writing that. though I might have; in the many interviews I did, I may have said that; but, even if she had, annual NCAA/NIT Tournaments without the dysfunction would have been...OK, I'd think. At least for some time. That Yori may have "maxed out" - which is an opinion and easily debatable - was a corollary to the reason she's not there any more. 

 

The poll is one thing, but you shaped the poll with the premise that the proper answer for expectations for Williams is somehow related to what Yori did in 2013 and 2014. I disagree. One must take into account what she took over - which was a program in pain and turmoil - as opposed to what happened three seasons prior.

 

Is your poll about Amy Williams - or Amy Williams' boss?  

 

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

14 minutes ago, swmckewon said:

Is your poll about Amy Williams - or Amy Williams' boss?  

 

Good question.  I left it open-ended on purpose.  People who respond to the poll can decide that for themselves.

 

However, as I said to HB above, I'm not so interested in an examination of the current roster and recruits and how well that group stacks up against the rest of the league.  I'm more interested in how quickly people think we ought to be able to expect to be on par with where the program was before the change was made.  How quickly should we be back in the top half of the league?  This was not a dumpster fire that Amy Williams walked into.  This was a program with a lot of recent history of great success and there were some very good players who were still on board or who could still have been on board.

 

It's outside the scope of my poll, but I don't think the coaching change, if handled correctly, needed to blow the whole program up.  So, maybe my poll is in some way a referendum on Eichorst.  Is the whole program blown up?  Do people think it's going to take forever and a day to get back to where we were?  Do people expect it will take a long time?  If so, then I would submit the coaching change was bungled badly.

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

Sam, let me ask you a question that takes some of your comments and hands them back to you.

 

Above, you said Amy walked into a "broken, divided program [that was] far removed from any Big Ten title atmosphere."  You made the point clear that there was a big difference between the program Yori left and the one Williams inherited.

 

Could this transition have been handled in a way that would have prevented this program from being "broken, divided" when the new coach walked through the doors?

 

Because, let's be honest, ain't nobody satisfied with 7-21 (3-13) and last place in the conference.  Was this the inevitable result of the coaching change?  Maybe that should have been my poll question.

[Bugeaters1]

Unless there is a big upgrade in talent; or should I say athleticism there wont be much improvement.

[huskerchode]

Given the abysmal year we have had, I think satisfactory improvement would be to finish in the middle of the league next year, maybe just a tad below.  If we have another bad year, then that is unacceptable IMO.  In the third year, I feel satisfactory improvement would be to finish in the middle but slightly above the middle.  By the 4th and 5th years I hope we are looking at a bye in the conference tournament (top 4 spot).  Anything less and I'm a grumpy Gus.

[HB]

4 hours ago, swmckewon said:

In terms of what Amy Williams inherited? Oh, it's a pretty solid fact. 

 

You're talking about, I guess, the theoretical parallel universe where none of what happened, happened, and Yori's still at Nebraska. 

 

But, when Amy took over - which is what Norm wrote - Nat had already said what she'd said. The investigation had been done. Sides had been chosen. That's what Amy walked into - a broken, divided program. That's what she took over. It was far removed from any Big Ten title atmosphere, I assure you. 

 

 

And what Shepherd said, to be fair (see, right there, you spun it).    And which you reported, which is a judgment call.   

[HB]

5 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

The team struggled a great deal last year and there was a lot of internal strife and lack of team chemistry.  Yet, they still went 18-13 overall and 9-9 in the Big Ten.  The year before that, they won 21 games and were 10-8 in the league.  The several years before that, they were even better.

 

How many years should the new coach get to return the program to the level it was at when the last coach left?  Coach Williams is responsible now for who she puts on the floor, so let's just say the what-ifs about Shepard getting into condition or whomever improving in whatever way are not material to the point of this particular question.

 

I'm not asking how good do you think they actually will be next year; I'm asking more how good do you think a Husker women's team ought to be in the 2nd and 3rd years of a new coach who follows on the heals of a successful run by the former coach.

 

That's more what I'm asking.

 

 

I didn't read that much into it.  I just wanted to look to what the future looks like for team success.   Thus my best predictions.  I'm fatigued of the whole scene from last year, and Eichorst's whole deal, and am ready to talk about this basketball team.  Unless someone starts something, then I still have a little left in me.  But, carry on, you have the right to post and poll on it all, it was just too deep for me.

[swmckewon]

23 minutes ago, HB said:

 

And what Shepherd said, to be fair (see, right there, you spun it).    And which you reported, which is a judgment call.   

 

This post still has no bearing on what Amy took over. She took over a mess. Whoever it is you think caused it, she didn't. 

 

 

[HB]

11 hours ago, swmckewon said:

 

This post still has no bearing on what Amy took over. She took over a mess. Whoever it is you think caused it, she didn't. 

 

 

 

Well, I'm not looking to bash Amy.   I would love to see her succeed here.   But at the time she arrived here, Doyle and Cayton hadn't committed anywhere else, and Romeo was still here.  Who knows what a big time coach could have done.  Or chosen to do.    She brought no players with her (unless you count a walk-on she tried to talk out of coming here), didn't get a grad transfer or late recruit.  Not all as simple as you say.   But yeah, Eichorst is way more to blame than Amy, I'll grant you that.  You don't quite have the sand to directly state that  you think Yori was to blame; but you had enough comments that its easy to see where you're coming from.  So you waded in a spat between young kids, and printed it.  So perhaps you contributed to the "mess" as well.  Perhaps Romeo is here if you made a different choice.

Edited March 1, 2017 by HB

[HUD]

The season isn't over yet and I can't believe some of you want to continue to dredge up the past.  This seems to me to consist of old wounds that some are looking to find some sort of "I told you so to help them heal".  All I know are a couple of things.  Coach Williams did inherit a mess.  We have a roster of young players who are working hard and making progress.  The coaches and players need our support.  They for one have mine.  GBR

[redsteve]

16 hours ago, swmckewon said:

In terms of what Amy Williams inherited? Oh, it's a pretty solid fact. 

 

You're talking about, I guess, the theoretical parallel universe where none of what happened, happened, and Yori's still at Nebraska. 

 

But, when Amy took over - which is what Norm wrote - Nat had already said what she'd said. The investigation had been done. Sides had been chosen. That's what Amy walked into - a broken, divided program. That's what she took over. It was far removed from any Big Ten title atmosphere, I assure you. 

 

 

That's where I come from.  I too am more of a realist I guess. The situation was resolved...done... as far as the new coach was concerned.

 

Coach Amy had what she had...and it was nothing like the previous team....graduation, Burns injury, and #5 leaving, decimated the team skill and experience wise.

 

All the speculation of what could have been...is nothing but speculation...maybe just wishful thinking. Doesn't mean I don't think about what could have been...but only wishful thinking...and only because my selfish hope, that it would have been better for the program ....if none of the crap hadn't happened. But it did happen....last year..... Not today.

[whoopdeedoo]

9 hours ago, HUD said:

The season isn't over yet and I can't believe some of you want to continue to dredge up the past.  This seems to me to consist of old wounds that some are looking to find some sort of "I told you so to help them heal".  All I know are a couple of things.  Coach Williams did inherit a mess.  We have a roster of young players who are working hard and making progress.  The coaches and players need our support.  They for one have mine.  GBR

 

period. post of the day.

[redsteve]

3 minutes ago, whoopdeedoo said:

 

period. post of the day.

 

Ditto

[Norm Peterson]

12 hours ago, HUD said:

The season isn't over yet and I can't believe some of you want to continue to dredge up the past.  This seems to me to consist of old wounds that some are looking to find some sort of "I told you so to help them heal".  All I know are a couple of things.  Coach Williams did inherit a mess.  We have a roster of young players who are working hard and making progress.  The coaches and players need our support.  They for one have mine.  GBR

 

All I'm asking is how long folks think it should take for a new coach to return us to our former glory. 

 

The rest of that noise about dredging up the past is your issue, not mine.  The poll prompted some ancillary discussion, and that's OK with me because it dealt with trying to ascertain really how good were we before?  I think that's a fair starting point to the discussion about how long it should take to get us back there.

 

If you don't want to participate in the poll or in a discussion about what's a reasonable expectation moving forward, that's totally fine.  No one is asking you to.

[Norm Peterson]

12 hours ago, HUD said:

The season isn't over yet and I can't believe some of you want to continue to dredge up the past.  This seems to me to consist of old wounds that some are looking to find some sort of "I told you so to help them heal".  All I know are a couple of things.  Coach Williams did inherit a mess.  We have a roster of young players who are working hard and making progress.  The coaches and players need our support.  They for one have mine.  GBR

 

And, for the record -- and you can go look at my vote because I made the poll public -- I've given Coach Amy as much leeway as anyone who's responded so far.  I'm not expecting her to work miracles and get back to where we were by the end of next season.  I anticipate non-winning records in conference for the next two years.  I think I'm being very realistic and fair because, you're right, in the end, it was kind of a mess.

 

Why are people on the women's board so reluctant to go into the back story, though?  It's like a bunch of people with their hands clamped over their ears yelling "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

[redsteve]

19 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

And, for the record -- and you can go look at my vote because I made the poll public -- I've given Coach Amy as much leeway as anyone who's responded so far.  I'm not expecting her to work miracles and get back to where we were by the end of next season.  I anticipate non-winning records in conference for the next two years.  I think I'm being very realistic and fair because, you're right, in the end, it was kind of a mess.

 

Why are people on the women's board so reluctant to go into the back story, though?  It's like a bunch of people with their hands clamped over their ears yelling "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

 

Not me Norm.  We don't to go back to the old story because it's now....nothing but an old, frankly worn out story. I've said it 10 times....the past stuff is over...nothing can be done about it...and moved on. Actually your the one that brought it up again in your second post on this page...and it isn't the first time. No one else has been even talking/posting about it much. Old story of the past.

 

Actually Norm, the poll itself is good, and can create discussion with questions about the development of the current team.

Edited March 1, 2017 by redsteve

[Cazzie22]

The team should show some improvement next season but I am not as optimistic as many seem to be.  Ball handling, defense, shooting, and overall athleticism all need to improve to even approach the mid level of the B1G.  There are glimmers of hope but this league is too good for our current and incoming roster.

[Norm Peterson]

Thank you, redsteve, for the comment about the poll.  I put a lot of thought into it, so I appreciate the props.

 

As to bringing it back up now, it's pertinent because the end of the regular season has arrived and so now, for the first time, we know how we actually did.  Not only that, but deciphering exactly how big of a mess Coach walked into is important for establishing those reasonable expectations.  If there had been no roster turnover and all the signed recruits came as scheduled and, basically, if Coach Amy had taken over pretty much where Coach Yori left off, I think there would be an ENTIRELY different perception about this year's final record.  I think most people would view it as inexcusable.  But, because there was roster turnover, etc., you have to make some allowances. 

 

So, you can't really have this discussion without confronting the coaching change topic.  Now, my original post did so on the periphery without pointing fingers of blame or making recriminating statements.  Basically just acknowledged the event occurred and some folks have differing views on whether it should have happened or not.  But I tried to make it clear that the poll wasn't about that.  What happened happened.  So now what?  What's a reasonable expectation moving forward?

 

I still feel like, bottom line, this was a good program and a good job at the time Coach Williams took it over.  It wasn't like Tim Miles coming to Lincoln and inheriting a program with zero history and a lack of Big Ten caliber players.  So, I think expectations for the new coach should be a little accelerated compared to the men's program.  And it looks like most voters in my poll agree with that take.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Norm Peterson