Does anyone leave?

[Silverbacked1]

Okay just wanted to be clear.  Thanks for helping me understand.

[nustudent]

I would honestly rather be a losing program than conduct ourselves that way.  Parker played this year and we should at least give him the respect of honoring his scholarship rather than just keeping it open.  nustudent, I pray you are never a coach making these kinds of decisions.

Never said we should cut him.

 

Just said I think we'd be better off using his scholarship elsewhere. 

[Silverbacked1]

Isn't that cutting him?

 

If you take his scholarship away are you asking him to leave or be a walk on?

 

Just want to know because to me using his scholarship for somebody else would mean he has to leave.

[uneblinstu]

I would honestly rather be a losing program than conduct ourselves that way.  Parker played this year and we should at least give him the respect of honoring his scholarship rather than just keeping it open.  nustudent, I pray you are never a coach making these kinds of decisions.

Never said we should cut him.

 

Just said I think we'd be better off using his scholarship elsewhere. 

That just seems like a semantical argument to me.  Don't really see much difference between the two unless Parker leaves on his own, which it doesn't sound like will happen.

[nustudent]

Isn't that cutting him?

 

If you take his scholarship away are you asking him to leave or be a walk on?

 

Just want to know because to me using his scholarship for somebody else would mean he has to leave.

Again...never said we should cut him. 

I said we would be better off if he left.   Him leaving on his own and us cutting him are two different things.

[Silverbacked1]

Okay thank you for clearing that up.

 

Guess I'm just too nice a guy to be asking guys that I brought in to leave.

 

Seems like I would be the one to do something because I thought he was good enough to play for me.

 

Kind of like OOps guess I was wrong, time for you to leave because I couldn't see that you would fit in.

 

Maybe I need to look closer at my recruiting then.

[nustudent]

 

I would honestly rather be a losing program than conduct ourselves that way.  Parker played this year and we should at least give him the respect of honoring his scholarship rather than just keeping it open.  nustudent, I pray you are never a coach making these kinds of decisions.

Never said we should cut him.

 

Just said I think we'd be better off using his scholarship elsewhere. 

That just seems like a semantical argument to me.  Don't really see much difference between the two unless Parker leaves on his own, which it doesn't sound like will happen.

Parker leaving on his own is part of this equation.  Isn't the thread title asking who is leaving?

 

I never once said we should cut someone.   I just said we'd be better off if he left.  

[uneblinstu]

Saying "we'd be better off using his scholarship elsewhere" is open for being interpreted differently.

[nustudent]

Saying "we'd be better off using his scholarship elsewhere" is open for being interpreted differently.

Only if you want to create the argument you want to hear the other party making.

 

I never said anything about how his scholarship opened up.

 

I think Benny should be allowed to stay before cutting him.   That doesn't mean that I don't think we can't find  a better player or fill a bigger need with an open spot in the 2014 class.

[uneblinstu]

Fair enough.

[GATA]

Saying "we'd be better off using his scholarship elsewhere" is open for being interpreted differently.

Only if you want to create the argument you want to hear the other party making.

 

I never said anything about how his scholarship opened up.

 

I think Benny should be allowed to stay before cutting him.   That doesn't mean that I don't think we can't find  a better player or fill a bigger need with an open spot in the 2014 class.

 

For the record, I don't like to see coaches push out players they recruited. It's not good business, although Crean has been doing this at Indiana and many other top programs do this. I was looking at it more through the lens that Parker might see the writing on the wall with all the guards we're recruiting and bringing in. I think it's more likely he stays through next season and then explores his options.

 

In an earlier post, I put his leaving at 50-50, but that's a lot higher than it should be. It's more like 85-15 he stays. Vooch, though, I would think is 50-50.

[NUdiehard]

Isn't that cutting him?

 

If you take his scholarship away are you asking him to leave or be a walk on?

 

Just want to know because to me using his scholarship for somebody else would mean he has to leave.

 

All this talk about "BP choosing to leave" vs. "Miles asking him to leave" is a game of semantics.  You seem to suggest that you have no problem if BP "chooses" to leave of his own volition, yet you do not agree with Miles if Miles "cuts" him simply b/c MIles doesn't think he is good enough.  Well, here is how it will work.  If Miles doesn't think BP is good enough, and if Miles would rather have the scholie open for recruiting new players, then in the post-season team meeting, Miles will tell BP "BP, you are a great kid and have been a great teammate and I have enjoyed having you on the team.  You are welcome to remain a part of this team, but I think it is only fair to tell you up front that, based on all the players returning, and based on my assessment of who we have coming in, you probably will not play at all either next year or any year after that.  I am just telling you this now in case, based on that knowledge, you would like to consider transferring to a smaller school where you could play more."

 

In contrast, if the Miles think Vooch could develop into a good player down the road and wants to keep him, then the meeting goes like this "Vooch, I regret that you couldn't play more this year.  I think you have a ton of potential and I consider you a valuable and vital part of this team.  You need to gain weight and get stronger, but I believe you are capable and I expect you to get significantly more minutes next year, especially with the graduation of Brandon and Andre, and for your career here to flourish from there.  You are critical to our success and I want to you stay and be a part of this team for 4 years, I hope you feel the same."

 

So, are you now satisfied that Miles didn't make the decision and the players did?  If so, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you. 

[Silverbacked1]

I think you totally missed what I have been saying.

 

I don't think you should ever dismiss a kid from the team unless some law has been broken or that player wants to leave.

 

I am saying that if you got a player to come here it is for the whole time unless something happens that changes something like I stated above.

 

Sorry if I came of any other way.

[Norm Peterson]

I'm not quite of the same opinion as Silverbacked.  I think if a guy gets here and busts, you tell him he isn't likely to ever see the floor and probably should find another opportunity somewhere else. 

 

Not saying Parker falls in that category.  He plays hard, plays tough defense and, for a true freshman, doesn't make a lot of costly mistakes.  If he develops more offensive skills shooting the ball, he could be a more likely candidate for playing time.  But we can't start a kid that other teams don't have to cover. 

 

I'm sure Benny understands that.  He saw what happened this year when he went from starter to reserve.  He'll make his own decisions.  If he stays, it'll probably be because he thinks he can grow and improve his game to the point that he gets decent minutes.  If he thinks the deck is just too stacked in front of him, he may elect to leave.

 

But I'd be surprised if we punt on him.  Not at this point, we don't.

[NUdiehard]

I think you totally missed what I have been saying.

 

I don't think you should ever dismiss a kid from the team unless some law has been broken or that player wants to leave.

 

I am saying that if you got a player to come here it is for the whole time unless something happens that changes something like I stated above.

 

Sorry if I came of any other way.

I don't think you get what I am saying.  If Miles tells BP in the post-season meeting that he can stay if he wants, but he probably won't ever see the floor again, and then BP "chooses" to leave, do you think that Miles "dismissed" him or didn't "dismiss" him?  I am saying it is all semantics.  Miles determines who he wants to stay and who he wants to leave and structures his post-season meetings accordingly.  Miles can get almost any player to "choose" to leave without ever telling that player that he is "dismissed" or not allowed to return.  THe point is that it is the coach, not the player, who dictating what is said in those meetings about the potential for future playing time.  Very, very few players are going to return if the coach is telling him that he can stay but probably won't ever see the court again. 

[cipsucks]

I think I have a solution.  Rumor has it the Lollipop Guild has two spots available for next season.  No need to thank me....

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEeg1d1tQqQ

[NUdiehard]

 

 

I'm still stunned at how many fans really like Benny Parker, feel he's a legitimate B1G player and believe he'll play over guys like Webster and Hawkins. I don't see any chance that Benny Parker plays much next year and can't fathom that he'll still be on the team in 2014-2015.

 

The guy has poor handles, can't shoot, has no confidence, plays intimidated, is an average passer, can't drive to the basket, and is 3 inches shorter than the next-shortest player in the B1G.

 

For those who really like him, what do you believe he does well? The only thing I've seen is that he plays pretty good defense. He's short but very quick and moves well on defense. As an offensive player, he's a disaster.

I don't think he'll necessarily play over those guys, but having a guy like Benny coming off your bench, even for only 5 minutes a game can go a long way over the course of the season.  The game will slow down for him as he matures.  Just because he doesn't start doesn't mean he can't be an important player on the team.  I don't know whether he'll be here TWO years from now, I do think he'll be here next year.

 

In giving him those 5 minutes, you just took 5 minutes of playing time away from Nate Hawkins, Tai Webster or someone else. Assuming the newcomers pan out (not guaranteed, I know), we'll have very good depth at the guard spots next year without Benny Parker. With Biggs, Gallegos, Webster and Hawkins, I don't see where 5 minutes per game should be going to Parker. Just my opinion.

I don't know if he will play or not next year or ever. I'm just saying these conversations really remind me of the ones people were having about Ubel four years ago.

A few thoughts on this:

 

1.  Comparing Ubel to BP is apples to oranges.  Ubel is a post player.  Post players almost always take longer to develop and grow into their bodies as comparted to guards.  Post players have something BP will never have, height and size.  Thus, if a big man can slowly develop his game, his productiveness can increase exponentially.  This generally is not true with guards, especially smaller guards.

 

2.  In regards to Ubel's freshman and sophmore year, much of the discussion wasn't so much as to whether he was worthy of retaining a scholarship.  Most of the discussion was whether he should have been playing as much or more minutes than Standhardinger.  There were very legitimate arguments in that regard, including the prospect that Christian would leave b/c Doc kept him on the bench almost the whole game.

 

3.  Last, we all agree that Ube's is a great person and a great ambassador for the university.  Everybody likes Ubes.  But the reality is that if all of MIles recruits and scholarship players are of the same talent and ability as Ubel, then Miles will continue to finish in the bottom tier of the league and will be fired after 5 or 6 years, just like Doc.  That is simply the reality.  Even in his senior year, Ubel wasn't anywhere close to a premier player in the B1G.  And this doesn't even factor in his freshman, soph and junior years when he wasn't nearly as productive as he was this year.  A team is always comprised of underclassmen and upperclassmen.  Miles will need players who can be very productive even as freshman and sophmores, not just their senior year.  And once those players reach their senior year, Miles will need elite talent and production from many of them.   For instance, a player like Shields is kind of a "floor" of the type of player Miles needs to recruit.  Players that can come in and contribute very solid and productive minutes as freshman.  They may have ups and downs, but they show they have the talent to compete in this league and continue to get better.  Anything less than that is never going to get us into the top half of league b/c all the other top teams have underclassmenplayers like that already and will continue to get them.  Ubel was nowhere near the talent as a freshman or sophmore that Shields is as a very young true freshman. 

 

If Miles wants to take this program to the top half of the conference, then he needs to recruit and retain elite level players.  It is that simple.  But we all know that Miles is not gong to bat 100%.  He is going to have some misses.  Every coach does.  If he allows all of the current players to stay all 4 years, and allows all of his "misses" to stay all 4 years, it is going to be nearly impossible to rise to get enough elite players on the roster to rise to the top half of the conference because he will only have a couple scholarships available each year (ie, Gallegos is the only senior after next year) and it is almost impossible to bat 100%.  If he has 3 to 4 scholarships available each year, then he only needs to bat .500 to make it work.  People may not like this reality, but it is the reality and every coach in college BB lives in that reality and has to deal with it just like Miles.  Only Miles has an even more difficult job b/c he can "select" elite talent like Duke, UNC, OSU, Mich. St., etc.  He has to look for diamonds in the rough.  Many of them are going to turn out to be lumps of coal. He can't keep them all for 4 years or he is going to have a locker room with 8 lumps of coach a few pearls and maybe one rough diamond.  This isn't enough when OSU, Mich, Indiana, etc, all have a locker room full of finely cut diamonds.

[Silverbacked1]

Okay

 

I do know that song cip.

 

At least I think I do?

[HuskerFever]

Does anyone leave?

 

I've been wondering that myself. To answer your question... No, I don't think the Creighton lurkers on this message board will leave.

[Silverbacked1]

Does anyone leave?

 

I've been wondering that myself. To answer your question... No, I don't think the Creighton lurkers on this message board will leave.

Thanks for the laugh. :D :D

[Dean Smith]

 

 

 

I'm still stunned at how many fans really like Benny Parker, feel he's a legitimate B1G player and believe he'll play over guys like Webster and Hawkins. I don't see any chance that Benny Parker plays much next year and can't fathom that he'll still be on the team in 2014-2015.

 

The guy has poor handles, can't shoot, has no confidence, plays intimidated, is an average passer, can't drive to the basket, and is 3 inches shorter than the next-shortest player in the B1G.

 

For those who really like him, what do you believe he does well? The only thing I've seen is that he plays pretty good defense. He's short but very quick and moves well on defense. As an offensive player, he's a disaster.

I don't think he'll necessarily play over those guys, but having a guy like Benny coming off your bench, even for only 5 minutes a game can go a long way over the course of the season.  The game will slow down for him as he matures.  Just because he doesn't start doesn't mean he can't be an important player on the team.  I don't know whether he'll be here TWO years from now, I do think he'll be here next year.

 

In giving him those 5 minutes, you just took 5 minutes of playing time away from Nate Hawkins, Tai Webster or someone else. Assuming the newcomers pan out (not guaranteed, I know), we'll have very good depth at the guard spots next year without Benny Parker. With Biggs, Gallegos, Webster and Hawkins, I don't see where 5 minutes per game should be going to Parker. Just my opinion.

I don't know if he will play or not next year or ever. I'm just saying these conversations really remind me of the ones people were having about Ubel four years ago.

A few thoughts on this:

 

1.  Comparing Ubel to BP is apples to oranges.  Ubel is a post player.  Post players almost always take longer to develop and grow into their bodies as comparted to guards.  Post players have something BP will never have, height and size.  Thus, if a big man can slowly develop his game, his productiveness can increase exponentially.  This generally is not true with guards, especially smaller guards.

 

2.  In regards to Ubel's freshman and sophmore year, much of the discussion wasn't so much as to whether he was worthy of retaining a scholarship.  Most of the discussion was whether he should have been playing as much or more minutes than Standhardinger.  There were very legitimate arguments in that regard, including the prospect that Christian would leave b/c Doc kept him on the bench almost the whole game.

 

3.  Last, we all agree that Ube's is a great person and a great ambassador for the university.  Everybody likes Ubes.  But the reality is that if all of MIles recruits and scholarship players are of the same talent and ability as Ubel, then Miles will continue to finish in the bottom tier of the league and will be fired after 5 or 6 years, just like Doc.  That is simply the reality.  Even in his senior year, Ubel wasn't anywhere close to a premier player in the B1G.  And this doesn't even factor in his freshman, soph and junior years when he wasn't nearly as productive as he was this year.  A team is always comprised of underclassmen and upperclassmen.  Miles will need players who can be very productive even as freshman and sophmores, not just their senior year.  And once those players reach their senior year, Miles will need elite talent and production from many of them.   For instance, a player like Shields is kind of a "floor" of the type of player Miles needs to recruit.  Players that can come in and contribute very solid and productive minutes as freshman.  They may have ups and downs, but they show they have the talent to compete in this league and continue to get better.  Anything less than that is never going to get us into the top half of league b/c all the other top teams have underclassmenplayers like that already and will continue to get them.  Ubel was nowhere near the talent as a freshman or sophmore that Shields is as a very young true freshman. 

 

If Miles wants to take this program to the top half of the conference, then he needs to recruit and retain elite level players.  It is that simple.  But we all know that Miles is not gong to bat 100%.  He is going to have some misses.  Every coach does.  If he allows all of the current players to stay all 4 years, and allows all of his "misses" to stay all 4 years, it is going to be nearly impossible to rise to get enough elite players on the roster to rise to the top half of the conference because he will only have a couple scholarships available each year (ie, Gallegos is the only senior after next year) and it is almost impossible to bat 100%.  If he has 3 to 4 scholarships available each year, then he only needs to bat .500 to make it work.  People may not like this reality, but it is the reality and every coach in college BB lives in that reality and has to deal with it just like Miles.  Only Miles has an even more difficult job b/c he can "select" elite talent like Duke, UNC, OSU, Mich. St., etc.  He has to look for diamonds in the rough.  Many of them are going to turn out to be lumps of coal. He can't keep them all for 4 years or he is going to have a locker room with 8 lumps of coach a few pearls and maybe one rough diamond.  This isn't enough when OSU, Mich, Indiana, etc, all have a locker room full of finely cut diamonds.

That's a very well thought out post, except I didn't compare Ubel to Benny. I was comparing people's post about Ubel to their posts about Benny. My post was about posters attitude to write people off quickly, no comment on anyone's talent or potential.

[49r]

God, I hope we can find something else to talk about for the next 8 months.  This topic is gonna get real tiring...dimes, you have to allow off-topic stuff in this forum in the off season.  Nobody reads and responds to threads in the "College Basketball" forum.

 

Perfectly good topics of discussion just go there to die, we all know it, and the only thing we're gonna be able to talk about around here without a little loosening of the moderation is a topic we've already ridden waaaaaay too far into the ground...and our season has only been over for a few days!

[Cheap Seat Perspective]

What some people are forgetting is that Benny was not playing at 100% all year, I saw flashes of some good things out of Benny, I think he could become a player that can run a B1G offense. 

 

His biggest problem this year was his confidence in his shooting ability, at the beginning of the year he could pull up at about 15 feet and knock down shots, but then he got hurt and was compensating with his other leg to shoot. 

 

I think it's really funny that a lot of people thought the roster turnover in the past are now trying to run players out of town. 

[hhcmatt]

God, I hope we can find something else to talk about for the next 8 months.  This topic is gonna get real tiring...dimes, you have to allow off-topic stuff in this forum in the off season.  Nobody reads and responds to threads in the "College Basketball" forum.

 

Perfectly good topics of discussion just go there to die, we all know it, and the only thing we're gonna be able to talk about around here without a little loosening of the moderation is a topic we've already ridden waaaaaay too far into the ground...and our season has only been over for a few days!

 

I don't plan on being too vigilant during the offseason.

 

This topic is what it is...a topic with a negative premise.

If the topic title is "Will anyone leave?" it certainly receives less feedback

 

Our most popular topic on the entire board isn't in this section.

Forum placement is overrated

[colhusker]

WHAT!!! Our season is OVER??