Norm's Conference Recognition Watch List

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, BugeaterZ said:

I fully agree that innocent until proven guilty is the right standard for criminal conviction.  The privilege of playing college basketball and winning awards is a far different standard in my opinion.  He shouldn't be playing. Lawrence Phillips shouldn't have been allowed back on the team, despite what I wanted in 1995. My thinking has evolved on this and many other things in the last 30 years.

 

Where does Brian Banks go to get his high school athletics career back?
 

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/woman-falsely-accused-brian-banks-rape-ordered-to-pay-26m/1971672/?amp=1

Edited February 7 by Norm Peterson

[cipsucks]

6 hours ago, cornfed24-7 said:

You really have a hard time with this. It's not just an accusation. It's been vetted by a DA. And that person believes there's enough evidence to warrant charges. But you go a head and die on that hill. 

 

A DA vetted the accusations against the Duke lacrosse team.  How'd that turn out?  I think Norm is standing on solid ground. 

[BugeaterZ]

1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Where does Brian Banks go to get his high school athletics career back?
 

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/woman-falsely-accused-brian-banks-rape-ordered-to-pay-26m/1971672/?amp=1

Of course it happens, I never denied that. It's easy to find a specific example to prove whatever side you take. This particular guy still got a chance to play in the NFL. And he got paid, so his life WASN'T ruined.

 

Countless victims of what he is accused of never see justice served on their perpetrators. Many of those perpetrators go on to commit more crimes because of the lack of consequences. Maybe he didn't do anything wrong, and if that's the case, I hope his accuser goes to jail. Let it play out in the legal system and if he's exonerated,  he can play next season, one year closer to getting his free degree.

[Norm Peterson]

9 hours ago, BugeaterZ said:

False accusations happen but it's far more common for a legal acquittal to happen despite an actual assault. That's because there are rarely witnesses and it's a case of he said/ she said. Thus why so many go unreported, because why relive the trauma when nothing will happen to the perpetrator?

 

Obviously none of us knows the truth here but imagine he did it and the victim sees him honored. Preventing him from playing basketball won't ruin his life, even if he is innocent. He is still getting a free education while suspended.

 

But in America we value rights more than responsibilities.

 

"In Shannon’s complaint, his attorneys highlight the dearth of other evidence. 'The alleged incident occurred in a very public bar,' they note, yet police have yet to uncover any witnesses. Surveillance footage reviewed by police also allegedly doesn’t confirm that a rape took place, nor does it show Shannon and the alleged victim together."

[Norm Peterson]

6 minutes ago, BugeaterZ said:

Of course it happens, I never denied that. It's easy to find a specific example to prove whatever side you take. This particular guy still got a chance to play in the NFL. And he got paid, so his life WASN'T ruined.

 

Countless victims of what he is accused of never see justice served on their perpetrators. Many of those perpetrators go on to commit more crimes because of the lack of consequences. Maybe he didn't do anything wrong, and if that's the case, I hope his accuser goes to jail. Let it play out in the legal system and if he's exonerated,  he can play next season, one year closer to getting his free degree.

 

He was paid? Who paid him? And what if he hadn't been a superstar athlete but instead only a pretty good athlete?

 

And, I suppose you could turn that around and say, well, the alleged victim's life wasn't ruined either.

 

The assault, IF IT HAPPENED, occurred in the past and we can't do anything to turn back the clock to make it not happen. But we can avoid, to the extent reasonably possible, causing further harm in the future by not rushing to judgment when only one side has really had a chance to state their side of the story.

[BugeaterZ]

42 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

He was paid? Who paid him? And what if he hadn't been a superstar athlete but instead only a pretty good athlete?

 

And, I suppose you could turn that around and say, well, the alleged victim's life wasn't ruined either.

 

The assault, IF IT HAPPENED, occurred in the past and we can't do anything to turn back the clock to make it not happen. But we can avoid, to the extent reasonably possible, causing further harm in the future by not rushing to judgment when only one side has really had a chance to state their side of the story.

The article YOU linked says he got a $2.6 million judgement. Maybe he didn't see anything,  but YOUR supporting article doesn't address that. Apologies for taking your evidence at face value.

 

Trauma not only harms many people for the rest of their lives, it's the number one cause for repeated generational crime and poverty, and victims of trauma have shorter lives on average. We cannot change the past, but we can make an effort to give victims justice.

 

It's a safe bet that he won't be convicted because most perpetrators aren't because of the reasonable doubt criminal standard. There are lots more criminals running free than there are innocent people in jail, which is preferable to the opposite.

 

I disagree with you that this standard is what should be applied to privileged activities. I also wouldn't be supportive if my daughter started dating him, even if he is never convicted and signs a huge NBA contract someday. I have seen firsthand the way families are destroyed by sexual violence and this is far worse than a college basketball suspension, whether he is guilty or not.

 

Sorry to all for getting into a heavy discussion like this, it's not why I come here. I'll go back to making bad score predictions and mostly reading but not posting. GBR

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

25 minutes ago, BugeaterZ said:

The article YOU linked says he got a $2.6 million judgement. Maybe he didn't see anything,  but YOUR supporting article doesn't address that. Apologies for taking your evidence at face value.

 

The article I linked doesn't actually say that. It says the false accuser had obtained a settlement from the school they attended for $1.5 million and, when she admitted she lied and made the story up, they sued her to recover the settlement along with $1.1 million in attorney fees. So that judgment was for the school, not for him. Besides, it doesn't matter how big your judgment is if she doesn't have the money to pay it. I sure don't have the funds to write anyone a check for $2.6 million.

 

He was in prison for five years. Had to wear an ankle monitor for five years after that. And register as a sex offender. And I don't see where he ever played a snap in an actual NFL regular season game. He had been offered by USC in high school back when USC was a perennial title contender. So he lost two seasons of his high school career and all of college. I'm sorry but I can't blithely dismiss that as no big deal because "he got paid so his life wasn't ruined." Especially when I don't know that he actually got paid.

Edited February 7 by Norm Peterson

[cornfed24-7]

2 hours ago, cipsucks said:

 

A DA vetted the accusations against the Duke lacrosse team.  How'd that turn out?  I think Norm is standing on solid ground. 

I don't. Mr Shannon should by allowed to play basketball while this plays out. He does have the presumption of innocense. And he deserves that. But when voters debate accolades at the end of the season those allocations should give them pause. 

 

False allegations do happen the statistics are between 2% and 10% of reported sexual assualts. The amount of woman that have been sexually assaulted in this country are between 20% an 25%. The amount of these women that actually reported their sexual assault about 25%. The amount people that committed sexual assault that will  spend any time in jail 6%. But yeah Norms on solid ground. You die on that hill with him. 

[BugeaterZ]

7 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

The article I linked doesn't actually say that. It says the false accuser had obtained a settlement from the school they attended for $1.5 million and, when she admitted she lied and made the story up, they sued her to recover the settlement along with $1.1 million in attorney fees. So that judgment was for the school, not for him. Besides, it doesn't matter how big your judgment is if she doesn't have the money to pay it. I sure don't have the funds to write anyone a check for $2.6 million.

 

He was in prison for five years. Had to wear an ankle monitor for five years after that. And register as a sex offender. And I don't see where he ever played a snap in an actual NFL regular season game. He had been offered by USC in high school back when USC was a perennial title contender. So he lost two seasons of his high school career and all of college. I'm sorry but I can't blithely dismiss that as no big deal because "he got paid so his life wasn't ruined." Especially when I don't know that he actually got paid.

Okay, I missed on the he got paid part. My bad.

 

But his life was ruined by the false conviction part of this whole deal. Even the innocent until proven guilty standard isn't always effective. The conviction is what ruined his life, not a suspension from sports, so the example is a false equivalency. I said early on the accuser should pay if this is made up. We agree the Banks example is a tragedy. 

 

Now I really will shut up.

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, BugeaterZ said:

Okay, I missed on the he got paid part. My bad.

 

But his life was ruined by the false conviction part of this whole deal. Even the innocent until proven guilty standard isn't always effective. The conviction is what ruined his life, not a suspension from sports, so the example is a false equivalency. I said early on the accuser should pay if this is made up. We agree the Banks example is a tragedy. 

 

Now I really will shut up.

 

No need to shut up. I thought we were having a reasonable discussion.

 

And, it prompted me to dig into the Shannon story a bit and what I found makes me think he absolutely SHOULD be eligible for post-season honors. The CCTV in the bar apparently doesn't show Shannon and the victim together at any point and she says it occurred right out in the open.

[hhcmatt]

Anyone who's logged minutes in the B1G this season is eligible for post-season honors.

[jsthusker]

13 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

Anyone who's logged minutes in the B1G this season is eligible for post-season honors.

Except the referees. 

[hskr4life]

6 minutes ago, jsthusker said:

Except the referees. 

Refereeing the post season despite the way they ref in the current season isn’t a post-season honor?  

[AuroranHusker]

1 hour ago, jsthusker said:

Except the referees. 

 

They seem to be a few teams' MVPs, tbh.

 

IYKYK

 

Edited February 7 by AuroranHusker

[cipsucks]

17 hours ago, cornfed24-7 said:

I don't. Mr Shannon should by allowed to play basketball while this plays out. He does have the presumption of innocense. And he deserves that. But when voters debate accolades at the end of the season those allocations should give them pause. 

 

False allegations do happen the statistics are between 2% and 10% of reported sexual assualts. The amount of woman that have been sexually assaulted in this country are between 20% an 25%. The amount of these women that actually reported their sexual assault about 25%. The amount people that committed sexual assault that will  spend any time in jail 6%. But yeah Norms on solid ground. You die on that hill with him. 

 

Statistics can be useful for a lot of things, but using them to give people cause for pause when voting on awards, seems kind of silly to me. But, everyone is entitled to an opinion, so I have no quarrel.  So, on one hand, he's innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law, but in the eyes of public opinion, voters shouldn't give him that leeway.  I'd be proud to die on the Constitutional hill with Norm.  Rather die on that hill than die in quicksand.

[cornfed24-7]

34 minutes ago, cipsucks said:

 

Statistics can be useful for a lot of things, but using them to give people cause for pause when voting on awards, seems kind of silly to me. But, everyone is entitled to an opinion, so I have no quarrel.  So, on one hand, he's innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law, but in the eyes of public opinion, voters shouldn't give him that leeway.  I'd be proud to die on the Constitutional hill with Norm.  Rather die on that hill than die in quicksand.

Man I must have missed the part  Constitution that covers post season accolades. But whatever help you sleep at night 

[cipsucks]

I only responded to your post because you told me to die on the hill with Norm.  I have no problem sleeping at night. Years ago I learned not to get into political discussions on this board. I'm sincerely trying not to. My advice to you is to do the same.  My last post on this subject.  GBR!

[cornfed24-7]

15 minutes ago, cipsucks said:

I only responded to your post because you told me to die on the hill with Norm.  I have no problem sleeping at night. Years ago I learned not to get into political discussions on this board. I'm sincerely trying not to. My advice to you is to do the same.  My last post on this subject.  GBR!

No hard feelings good Sir I for one don't mind discussing anything. Although, I don't think this one is political. Definitely a touchy subject. And I like my arguments with a side of snark

[Norm Peterson]

19 minutes ago, cipsucks said:

I only responded to your post because you told me to die on the hill with Norm.  I have no problem sleeping at night. Years ago I learned not to get into political discussions on this board. I'm sincerely trying not to. My advice to you is to do the same.  My last post on this subject.  GBR!

 

I don't intend to die on any hills until after we win our first NCAA tourney game. And @cipsucks and I will be pulling @tcp across the finish line.

 

And I absconded with a whole bunch of mail-in All-Conference Selection ballots, so expect ALL of our guys to be on the first team.

[tcp]

hell yes. stuff that ballot box, suckers!

 

let's pull off the upset tonight. 

 

G B R!!!

[Cazzie22]

Hard to have an All-B1G player when we are all so inconsistent.

[Cazzie22]

I have to change my tune and say we will have one First Team All B1G player.  It could be Gary, Mast, Williams or Tominaga.  

[colhusker]

On 2/7/2024 at 8:50 AM, hhcmatt said:

Anyone who's logged minutes in the B1G this season is eligible for post-season honors.

Yep, not like the NBA where you have to play in 65 games to be considered!

[AuroranHusker]

2 hours ago, Cazzie22 said:

I have to change my tune and say we will have one First Team All B1G player.  It could be Gary, Mast, Williams or Tominaga.  

 

If NU somehow finishes in the upper 1/4th of the league, they could get more than 1 on the list. And another on the 2nd team, and another on the 3rd team (if they have one).

 

Not to say it's necessarily likely all that happens, but any of 'em could happen. GBR

 

 

Edited February 27 by AuroranHusker

[hhcmatt]

Don't think that anyone makes first team All-B1G and it's fine. Jahmir Young can be All-B1G playing in the NIT while we play in the NCAA tourney.