Talent lacking in the state of Nebraska has been greatly exaggerated

[Bugeaters1]

3 hours ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

 

Exactly where I'm at... at least recruit the in-state guy, to fill a roster of dudes who want to compete, and don't eventually transfer away every stinkin' year!

Chubick, Badgett come to mind. although the were schooly guys. they were hard nosed guys.

[AuroranHusker]

3 minutes ago, Bugeaters1 said:

Chubick, Badgett come to mind. although the were schooly guys. they were hard nosed guys.

 

NU needs the new generation of Chubick's and Badgett's in the next few years. GBR !!!

 

 

[TheGov21]

A few things to share about the article.

 

Yes there is some talent there, but most of the players listed are playing in the Summit League or scoring two points a game out in the Mountain West. Would those guys be better than Thor? Yes, but if a Big 10 school is trying to beat out UNO, SDSU or South Dakota for recruits than that is the problem.

 

Mike Daum is a stud, but he turned himself into the player he is at SDSU, not at Kimball. The same could be said about Hahn.

 

Tristan Simpson is having a good career at South Dakota, but he wasn't a Big 10 caliber player.

 

I'd say the only players Nebraska really missed on were, Akoy, Patton, Thomas and Thurman. But for various reasons. Akoy wanted to go play for a Blue Blood program. That's why he went to Louisville out of high school. Patton was a huge project that Creighton took a big shot at, Thomas was a whiff and Thurman had grade issues that caused him to go to UNO rather than a bigger school.

 

While I get that Nebraska has some talent, it's not necessarily talent that is going to win the Big 10. Get the guys that are good each year and find the diamond in the rough type.

[bigFRED]

I'm actually on the side thinking that talent is quite a bit lacking in Nebraska.. Yes there have been a few very good players we missed out on (Justin Patton, Khyri Thomas, Akoy (although didn't have a great career), Mike Daum, Treshawn Thurman sort of. But when you look at the talent produced in Minnesota/Indiana/Kansas we are I'd say bottom half/quarter in the US of in-state talent consistently produced.

 

If you take Nebraska between 2016-2019 according to the 247 we have 5 guys that are atleast a 3 star recruit (None higher than 3). Teddy Allen, Ed Chang, Brady, Shereef, Akol.

Some other nearby states in that 2016-2019 range: 

 

Colorado - 13 (2 4-stars, 11 3-stars)

Illinois - 60 (15 4-stars, 45 3-stars)

Indiana - 68 (7 5-stars, 13 4-stars, 48 3-stars)

Iowa - 12 (4 4-stars, 8 3-stars)

Kansas - 33 (5 4-stars, 28 3-stars)

Minnesota - 27 (2 5-stars, 8 4-stars, 17 3-stars)

Nebraska - 5 (5-3 stars)

 

I would add Michigan, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin and others but I think you get the point, and that is without the big names like Texas, California, Florida, New York, etc.

Yes we do have a little more talent than maybe the Dakotas, Wyoming, Alaska maybe? But in terms of other states with P5 programs we are a bottom outlier for in-state talent. Yes we missed on a few (Khyri, JP, Teddy, Akoy i guess) but really we are a little brother compared to other states in this aspect which will continue to hurt our coaches chances. 

[AuroranHusker]

51 minutes ago, TheGov21 said:

A few things to share about the article.

 

Yes there is some talent there, but most of the players listed are playing in the Summit League or scoring two points a game out in the Mountain West. Would those guys be better than Thor? Yes, but if a Big 10 school is trying to beat out UNO, SDSU or South Dakota for recruits than that is the problem.

 

Mike Daum is a stud, but he turned himself into the player he is at SDSU, not at Kimball. The same could be said about Hahn.

 

Tristan Simpson is having a good career at South Dakota, but he wasn't a Big 10 caliber player.

 

I'd say the only players Nebraska really missed on were, Akoy, Patton, Thomas and Thurman. But for various reasons. Akoy wanted to go play for a Blue Blood program. That's why he went to Louisville out of high school. Patton was a huge project that Creighton took a big shot at, Thomas was a whiff and Thurman had grade issues that caused him to go to UNO rather than a bigger school.

 

While I get that Nebraska has some talent, it's not necessarily talent that is going to win the Big 10. Get the guys that are good each year and find the diamond in the rough type.

 

Yes, of course, Khryi Thomas is a HUGE one who went to the eastern Omaha squad. That's the type of talent that NU could certainly use. Prior PG for the Mavs Tre-Deon Hollins would have been nice in Lincoln. He had to go JUCO first, as I recall. Even guys who could play 8-12 minutes for the Huskers, think Tanner Borchardt (but better) would fit the Big Red, at specific spots.

 

Tre'Shawn Thurman is starting for Nevada as a grad transfer. I think he'd fit in quite well in Lincoln right about now !!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by AuroranHusker

[The Polish Rifle]

41 minutes ago, TheGov21 said:

A few things to share about the article.

 

Yes there is some talent there, but most of the players listed are playing in the Summit League or scoring two points a game out in the Mountain West. Would those guys be better than Thor? Yes, but if a Big 10 school is trying to beat out UNO, SDSU or South Dakota for recruits than that is the problem.

 

Mike Daum is a stud, but he turned himself into the player he is at SDSU, not at Kimball. The same could be said about Hahn.

 

Tristan Simpson is having a good career at South Dakota, but he wasn't a Big 10 caliber player.

 

I'd say the only players Nebraska really missed on were, Akoy, Patton, Thomas and Thurman. But for various reasons. Akoy wanted to go play for a Blue Blood program. That's why he went to Louisville out of high school. Patton was a huge project that Creighton took a big shot at, Thomas was a whiff and Thurman had grade issues that caused him to go to UNO rather than a bigger school.

 

While I get that Nebraska has some talent, it's not necessarily talent that is going to win the Big 10. Get the guys that are good each year and find the diamond in the rough type.

I think you pretty much agree with the article then. JP wasn't saying you need to build  a roster out of Nebraska kids, he was just debating the notion that "There is no players in the state of Nebraska every year" - saying there is some talent to be had here.

 

But he is also saying no B1G team builds a team out of in-state players, 90% of the B1G are teams built with a majority being out-of-state talent. So in-state talent shouldn't be an excuse for losing, since every other team in the B1G is needing to go out of state to recruit.

[AuroranHusker]

2 minutes ago, The Polish Rifle said:

I think you pretty much agree with the article then. JP wasn't saying you need to build  a roster out of Nebraska kids, he was just debating the notion that "There is no players in the state of Nebraska every year" - saying there is some talent to be had here.

 

But he is also saying no B1G team builds a team out of in-state players, 90% of the B1G are teams built with a majority being out-of-state talent. So in-state talent shouldn't be an excuse for losing, since every other team in the B1G is needing to go out of state to recruit.

 

Yep. That's exactly right. And I wholeheartedly agree.

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 1:00 PM, nustudent said:

Bingo.

 

Passing on the guys in this state is one thing.   Who we ended up with at times in lieu of them is what's frustrating

 

Not trying to be a jerk or anything but if we had offered guys like Daum when Barry or Doc were the head coaches, you would have been one of the loudest opponents, voicing the most strenuous objections to offering all these local nobodies whom no other major conference teams offered.

 

I remember that very complaint being made -- by you -- when Doc signed Brandon Ubel.  You looked at who his next best offer was and decided he was a reach.

 

Have you changed your mind about these things?  Should we now be taking chances on these lower-rated in-state players hoping they blossom?

 

Also, you used to say that you'd rather leave a scholarship open than use it on a guy you considered a reach.  Is that still the case or has your opinion about that evolved as well?

[bigFRED]

@Norm Peterson

[Norm Peterson]

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:40 PM, AuroranHusker said:

 

Jacob pretty much dispels the common lazy narrative fairly quickly. A lot of good ballers from the state. Now, there aren't a ton of 4-star worthy players, but that isn't the whole story when it comes to basketball roster management. And I'm not referring to sticking a few walk-ons on the end of the bench; I think NU could have 4 to 6 in-state kids on the team (potentially) that are even highly recruited in the few seasons. The state of Nebraska has seemed to develop a lot of kids who are coachable at the next level, and by most accounts, the kids have been generally well-liked players who work their tails off with some talent, to boot! 

 

 

 

Yeah, we did great with the attitude and work-ethic of Deverell Biggs.

 

All kidding aside, I think the idea that we could have success at this level with half of the roster consisting of in-state players is pure fantasy.

 

But I think we should try it.  Get it out of our systems.  And, who knows, maybe Chip Dorfenbruner from Wynot will turn out to be the next Mike Daum. We can always hope, right?

Edited February 25, 2019 by Norm Peterson

[hhcmatt]

Are there Div 1 kids in Nebraska? Yup

Are there less Div 1 kids within a 4-5 hour drive from Lincoln than any other school in the conference?  Probably

Is it possible for Nebraska to be successful despite this? Sure.

Is it harder to be successful here for reasons which include all things equal better coaches will chose jobs where talent is more readily available?  Yup.

 

I get it...it's an article combating the phrase "there is nobody here" by Padilla who writes about talent in this state.  If you interpret Goodman's phrase less literally, there isn't a ton to argue there.

[hhcmatt]

On 2/23/2019 at 2:07 AM, TimSmiles said:

there was enough talent from nebraska to win the 2016-17 ncaa championship.

 

Tra-Deon Hollins/mike gesell (if he redshirted)/Malik Hluchoweckyj

Khyri Thomas/Nick Billingsley/Triston Simpson

Tre'Shawn Thurman/mitch hahn

Mike Daum/Tyler Hagedorn

Justin Patton/akoy agau/borchardt

 

 

If you let me cherry pick the best roster out of Illinois from the last 4 years someone could probably beat this team with whatever players remain

[AuroranHusker]

6 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Yeah, we did great with the attitude and work-ethic of Deverell Biggs.

 

All kidding aside, I think the idea that we could have success at this level with half of the roster consisting of in-state players is pure fantasy.

 

But I think we should try it.  Get it out of our systems.  And, who knows, maybe Chip Dorfenbruner from Wynot will turn out to be the next Mike Daum. We can always hope, right?

 

There are usually about 15 dudes on the roster, including walk-ons. How is having 4 to 6 instate fellas "half of the roster"???

 

Normy, I think my posted sentiment previously expressed applies most to a future premonition rather than a past permutation.

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by AuroranHusker

[rr52]

6 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

But I think we should try it.  Get it out of our systems.  And, who knows, maybe Chip Dorfenbruner from Wynot will turn out to be the next Mike Daum. We can always hope, right?

My sources tell me Chip is going to take the county (Cedar) scholarship offered by the football program.

[bigFRED]

4 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

If you let me cherry pick the best roster out of Illinois from the last 4 years someone could probably beat this team with whatever players remain

 

Bump

50 minutes ago, noahjb24 said:

I'm actually on the side thinking that talent is quite a bit lacking in Nebraska.. Yes there have been a few very good players we missed out on (Justin Patton, Khyri Thomas, Akoy (although didn't have a great career), Mike Daum, Treshawn Thurman sort of. But when you look at the talent produced in Minnesota/Indiana/Kansas we are I'd say bottom half/quarter in the US of in-state talent consistently produced.

 

If you take Nebraska between 2016-2019 according to the 247 we have 5 guys that are atleast a 3 star recruit (None higher than 3). Teddy Allen, Ed Chang, Brady, Shereef, Akol.

Some other nearby states in that 2016-2019 range: 

 

Colorado - 13 (2 4-stars, 11 3-stars)

Illinois - 60 (15 4-stars, 45 3-stars)

Indiana - 68 (7 5-stars, 13 4-stars, 48 3-stars)

Iowa - 12 (4 4-stars, 8 3-stars)

Kansas - 33 (5 4-stars, 28 3-stars)

Minnesota - 27 (2 5-stars, 8 4-stars, 17 3-stars)

Nebraska - 5 (5-3 stars)

 

I would add Michigan, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin and others but I think you get the point, and that is without the big names like Texas, California, Florida, New York, etc.

Yes we do have a little more talent than maybe the Dakotas, Wyoming, Alaska maybe? But in terms of other states with P5 programs we are a bottom outlier for in-state talent. Yes we missed on a few (Khyri, JP, Teddy, Akoy i guess) but really we are a little brother compared to other states in this aspect which will continue to hurt our coaches chances. 

 

[AuroranHusker]

1 minute ago, noahjb24 said:

 

Bump

 

 

That's great. What exactly is Nebraska doing to be great?! Transfers only got Miles & Co. so far. Isn't having instate dudes on the roster helpful in the sense that they've done well for Husker football. And, yes, I realize that is a 150-person roster instead of roughly 15. I guess what does NU have to lose *going forward* with the considerable talent available in the next few seasons within the state of Nebraska???

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

4 minutes ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

There are usually about 15 dudes on the roster, including walk-ons. How is having 4 to 6 instate fellas "half of the roster"???

 

Normy, I think my posted sentiment previously expressed applies most to a future premonition rather than a past permutation.

 

 

 

 

If your 4-6 Nebraska players can be walk-ons, we have that right now:  Justin Costello, Johnny Trueblood, Tanner Borchardt and Brady Heiman.  

 

But you can only have 13 scholarship kids and, under Miles, we've typically only had 12 or fewer.  So, six scholarship kids from Nebraska would be basically half the roster.

[AuroranHusker]

Just now, Norm Peterson said:

 

If your 4-6 Nebraska players can be walk-ons, we have that right now:  Justin Costello, Johnny Trueblood, Tanner Borchardt and Brady Heiman.  

 

But you can only have 13 scholarship kids and, under Miles, we've typically only had 12 or fewer.  So, six scholarship kids from Nebraska would be basically half the roster.

 

Gotcha. I'm counting it all, Normy. And, yet, 4 to 6 isn't always "6" anyway. I'm thinking the next few seasons, when the talent level is legit. I guess we'll wait & see what happens... I think it's worth "considering" instate talent. I'd loved to have had Khryi Thomas, if we're looking in the past. But, going forward, NU will have a few on the roster, either there or already committed. With several really good players in the pipeline, so to speak. Nebraska H.S./AAU hoops is getting better...

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

Just now, AuroranHusker said:

 

Gotcha. I'm counting it all, Normy. And, yet, 4 to 6 isn't always "6" anyway. I'm thinking the next few seasons, when the talent level is legit. I guess we'll wait & see what happens... I think it's worth "considering" instate talent. I'd loved to have had Khryi Thomas, if we're looking in the past. But, going forward, NU will have a few on the roster, either there or already committed. With several really good players in the pipeline, so to speak. Nebraska H.S./AAU hoops is getting better...

 

I'm not arguing with you.

 

I agree, I would have liked to have had Khyri Thomas.  I think Patton was a reach at best until he blew up the summer Creighton offered.  He wasn't on anyone's radar.  But, frankly, neither was Thomas.

 

Some guys pan out; some don't.  Some guys get to college and end up far better than anyone projected them to be; others get to college with all kinds of hype and never adjust.  Daum is an example of a kid who ended up being far better than the best crystal ball out there would have projected.  

 

I give a pass to coaches for missing on Daum and I give a pass to coaches for missing on Thomas.  For every Daum or Thomas who blew up, there are dozens of players of equal stature coming out of high school in Nebraska who didn't amount to much.  And you don't know which one it's going to be ahead of time.

 

If we had gone after Daum and he turned out to be the player he was projected to be (not all that good at the next level) rather than the player he ended up being, the coaches would be getting bitched at for that.

 

Bottom line:  I think you have better odds of winding up with a successful college player if you're going after 4- and 5-star talent than hoping some local kid who's been completely overlooked by every other Power 5 program winds up eating the right combination of magic beans and becomes something.  And, having said that, I will be very quick to point out that the kids with in-state offers now appear to be the kinds of players you can win with at this level. That hasn't often been the case in the past.

[hhcmatt]

9 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

I'm not arguing with you.

 

I agree, I would have liked to have had Khyri Thomas.  I think Patton was a reach at best until he blew up the summer Creighton offered.  He wasn't on anyone's radar.  But, frankly, neither was Thomas.

 

Some guys pan out; some don't.  Some guys get to college and end up far better than anyone projected them to be; others get to college with all kinds of hype and never adjust.  Daum is an example of a kid who ended up being far better than the best crystal ball out there would have projected.  

 

I give a pass to coaches for missing on Daum and I give a pass to coaches for missing on Thomas.  For every Daum or Thomas who blew up, there are dozens of players of equal stature coming out of high school in Nebraska who didn't amount to much.  And you don't know which one it's going to be ahead of time.

 

If we had gone after Daum and he turned out to be the player he was projected to be (not all that good at the next level) rather than the player he ended up being, the coaches would be getting bitched at for that.

 

Bottom line:  I think you have better odds of winding up with a successful college player if you're going after 4- and 5-star talent than hoping some local kid who's been completely overlooked by every other Power 5 program winds up eating the right combination of magic beans and becomes something.  And, having said that, I will be very quick to point out that the kids with in-state offers now appear to be the kinds of players you can win with at this level. That hasn't often been the case in the past.

 

I think we're really building something here with Heiman, Arop, Williams, and hopefully Hepburn though I will unabashedly root for most anyone who comes to our school, especially from our state. 

[AuroranHusker]

9 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

I'm not arguing with you.

 

I agree, I would have liked to have had Khyri Thomas.  I think Patton was a reach at best until he blew up the summer Creighton offered.  He wasn't on anyone's radar.  But, frankly, neither was Thomas.

 

Some guys pan out; some don't.  Some guys get to college and end up far better than anyone projected them to be; others get to college with all kinds of hype and never adjust.  Daum is an example of a kid who ended up being far better than the best crystal ball out there would have projected.  

 

I give a pass to coaches for missing on Daum and I give a pass to coaches for missing on Thomas.  For every Daum or Thomas who blew up, there are dozens of players of equal stature coming out of high school in Nebraska who didn't amount to much.  And you don't know which one it's going to be ahead of time.

 

If we had gone after Daum and he turned out to be the player he was projected to be (not all that good at the next level) rather than the player he ended up being, the coaches would be getting bitched at for that.

 

Bottom line:  I think you have better odds of winding up with a successful college player if you're going after 4- and 5-star talent than hoping some local kid who's been completely overlooked by every other Power 5 program winds up eating the right combination of magic beans and becomes something.  And, having said that, I will be very quick to point out that the kids with in-state offers now appear to be the kinds of players you can win with at this level. That hasn't often been the case in the past.

 

Yeah, that's why I was very specific talking about "going forward* as yesterday is gone, tomorrow is a day away. Let's focus on the prospects to get NU to the next level, so to speak.

.

 

[AuroranHusker]

6 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

I think we're really building something here with Heiman, Arop, Williams, and hopefully Hepburn 

 

That's what I'm talking 'bout. Don't forget Hunter Sallis.

 

 

 

 

*We all talkin' the same talk, btw.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by AuroranHusker

[Norm Peterson]

3 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

I think we're really building something here with Heiman, Arop, Williams, and hopefully Hepburn though I will unabashedly root for most anyone who comes to our school, especially from our state. 

 

And Sallis.

[KnightHusker]

On 2/23/2019 at 12:24 PM, cipsucks said:

 

He might have had a chance until Moe Iba destroyed all his confidence...

I also recall Iba screaming Siegel on every other possession 

[FredsSlacks]

the biggest issue is that most of the top talent is in omaha, and creighton is getting first crack at them.

 

and until we actually start winning or get a big time coach, creighton will keep getting the top omaha players.

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by TimSmiles