What if......

[Fullbacksympathy]

 

 

And to answer the thread, yes I would have loved to get Dana at any point.

Clearly Altman is better than any coach Nebraska has ever had.

Danny Nee went 12-6 against Altman between K-State and Creighton, and the wins over Creighton were almost always blowouts. There was no rivalry until Nee was fired.

So, no, clearly Altman isn't, but he was extremely smart for taking the Oregon job as his system works great with good athletes. Altman was never a great recruiter, but Oregon recruits itself. He was probably a better in-game coach than anyone we've had, but he was a below average recruiter, in my opinion, and recruiting in college basketball is about 5 times more important than in-game coaching.

Altman would've been another Sadler at UNL--solid in-game coaching, sub par talent. If we're talking upside alone (recruiting ability plus coaching), I think TM has displayed recruiting potential we haven't seen since Nee, and Nee was definitely a better coach than Altman because of his ability to recruit.

Yeah.... No. Altman is better than Nee. Altman is 9-11 in the tournament.

Maybe some of nees teams were better than Altman's but that doesn't mean nee is a better coach.

By the logic of head to head only matters miles is better than izzo. And therefore McDermott is way better than izzo.

 

 

When did I say only head to head matters?  The original question was about whether Altman could've succeeded at UNL, and it's clear by his K-State tenure that he couldn't because he wasn't a good recruiter.  You have to have a miracle recruiter to build a program at Nebraska.  That has to come first before in-game coaching.  

 

That said, there's no way Nee could've done what Altman has done with Oregon because wasn't a good enough in-game coach.  If you give Altman great players, he's as good as anyone.  I'm not trying to discredit the guy at all.  He's a very good Xs and Os coach, but it's not very observant to think he could've gotten any decent recruits to UNL based on the diminishing quality of recruits during his KState tenure.  

[khoock]

And to answer the thread, yes I would have loved to get Dana at any point.

Clearly Altman is better than any coach Nebraska has ever had.

Danny Nee went 12-6 against Altman between K-State and Creighton, and the wins over Creighton were almost always blowouts. There was no rivalry until Nee was fired.

So, no, clearly Altman isn't, but he was extremely smart for taking the Oregon job as his system works great with good athletes. Altman was never a great recruiter, but Oregon recruits itself. He was probably a better in-game coach than anyone we've had, but he was a below average recruiter, in my opinion, and recruiting in college basketball is about 5 times more important than in-game coaching.

Altman would've been another Sadler at UNL--solid in-game coaching, sub par talent. If we're talking upside alone (recruiting ability plus coaching), I think TM has displayed recruiting potential we haven't seen since Nee, and Nee was definitely a better coach than Altman because of his ability to recruit.

In fairness to Altman, he inherited a horrid program. He closed the talent gap with NU by 1999 and they turned in a winning season. So if you want to compare going head to head with reasonably comparable talent levels, you can't hold pre 1999 Creighton against him. They were a bad mid major when he arrived. He went 7-19 in year one, four years later the guy is winning an NCAA tourney game...AT CREIGHTON!

His record after that vs NU is 8-2. Let's at least call it the way it was. How can you turn around a 7-19 mid major in 4 years and not be a good recruiter??

Using this logic you cannot count TM first two games versus Creighton or most of his head to head record against Greg McDermott bc McDermott has almost always been at the more established program. I would also like to point out that you used both of these records against Miles to justify your dissatisfaction. You can't use records to crush TM and "prove" how bad of a coach he is but then turnaround and forgive Altman for parts of his records due to certain circumstances; circumstances that both he and Miles seem to be facing. So please let's just "call it the way it is."

[Fullbacksympathy]

 

 

 

And to answer the thread, yes I would have loved to get Dana at any point.

Clearly Altman is better than any coach Nebraska has ever had.

Danny Nee went 12-6 against Altman between K-State and Creighton, and the wins over Creighton were almost always blowouts. There was no rivalry until Nee was fired.

So, no, clearly Altman isn't, but he was extremely smart for taking the Oregon job as his system works great with good athletes. Altman was never a great recruiter, but Oregon recruits itself. He was probably a better in-game coach than anyone we've had, but he was a below average recruiter, in my opinion, and recruiting in college basketball is about 5 times more important than in-game coaching.

Altman would've been another Sadler at UNL--solid in-game coaching, sub par talent. If we're talking upside alone (recruiting ability plus coaching), I think TM has displayed recruiting potential we haven't seen since Nee, and Nee was definitely a better coach than Altman because of his ability to recruit.

In fairness to Altman, he inherited a horrid program. He closed the talent gap with NU by 1999 and they turned in a winning season. So if you want to compare going head to head with reasonably comparable talent levels, you can't hold pre 1999 Creighton against him. They were a bad mid major when he arrived. He went 7-19 in year one, four years later the guy is winning an NCAA tourney game...AT CREIGHTON!

His record after that vs NU is 8-2. Let's at least call it the way it was. How can you turn around a 7-19 mid major in 4 years and not be a good recruiter??

Using this logic you cannot count TM first two games versus Creighton or most of his head to head record against Greg McDermott bc McDermott has almost always been at the more established program. I would also like to point out that you used both of these records against Miles to justify your dissatisfaction. You can't use records to crush TM and "prove" how bad of a coach he is but then turnaround and forgive Altman for parts of his records due to certain circumstances; circumstances that both he and Miles seem to be facing. So please let's just "call it the way it is."

 

 

I hear you.  My argument rests on the recruiting factor.  I pointed out the head to head record because Altman was at the more established program at KSU when Nee started beating him and pulling in legitimate NBA talent.  I also said that head to head isn't everything and that Altman was a better in-game coach.  I just don't think he could've recruited the program changers to Nebraska that Nee did, and that matters a lot more than in-game coaching.

 

My grade formula for coaches goes something like this:

 

1.  Recruiting

2.  Recruiting

3.  Recruiting

4.  Xs and Os

 

As for TM, he has a lot to prove on the coaching end, but he's an incredible recruiter, which means I believe his ceiling is pretty damned high.  McDermott is very similar to Altman--good Xs and Os coach, below average recruiter.  He hasn't sniffed the NCAA Tournament outside of his big commit, Doug.  When he was at ISU, he couldn't recruit anyone to play for him there.  He's peaked, and the move to the Big East was the worst thing that could've possibly happened to him.

 

I look at TM v. McD like this:  because our talent levels have been similar, McD is going to win that matchup every time because he's a better Xs and Os coach, but McD could never get the kids to UNL that TM has, and once we have a complete team, the talent will likely take over, just like it did in the Big 12.  

[jimmykc]

Can we shut this one down now and agree we should have gone after Lon Kreuger when we had a chance.

[basketballjones]

Bill Bryne tweeted out last night that he tried everything to get Bill Self to Lincoln.... Suppose that's relevant

[jimmykc]

Self was waiting for the KU job to open and was at Illinois at the time. No amount of money would have brought him to Lincoln.

[Hoops_Legend]

 

 

 

And to answer the thread, yes I would have loved to get Dana at any point.

Clearly Altman is better than any coach Nebraska has ever had.

Danny Nee went 12-6 against Altman between K-State and Creighton, and the wins over Creighton were almost always blowouts. There was no rivalry until Nee was fired.

So, no, clearly Altman isn't, but he was extremely smart for taking the Oregon job as his system works great with good athletes. Altman was never a great recruiter, but Oregon recruits itself. He was probably a better in-game coach than anyone we've had, but he was a below average recruiter, in my opinion, and recruiting in college basketball is about 5 times more important than in-game coaching.

Altman would've been another Sadler at UNL--solid in-game coaching, sub par talent. If we're talking upside alone (recruiting ability plus coaching), I think TM has displayed recruiting potential we haven't seen since Nee, and Nee was definitely a better coach than Altman because of his ability to recruit.

In fairness to Altman, he inherited a horrid program. He closed the talent gap with NU by 1999 and they turned in a winning season. So if you want to compare going head to head with reasonably comparable talent levels, you can't hold pre 1999 Creighton against him. They were a bad mid major when he arrived. He went 7-19 in year one, four years later the guy is winning an NCAA tourney game...AT CREIGHTON!

His record after that vs NU is 8-2. Let's at least call it the way it was. How can you turn around a 7-19 mid major in 4 years and not be a good recruiter??

Using this logic you cannot count TM first two games versus Creighton or most of his head to head record against Greg McDermott bc McDermott has almost always been at the more established program. I would also like to point out that you used both of these records against Miles to justify your dissatisfaction. You can't use records to crush TM and "prove" how bad of a coach he is but then turnaround and forgive Altman for parts of his records due to certain circumstances; circumstances that both he and Miles seem to be facing. So please let's just "call it the way it is."

 

Do you think it's coincidental that he not only got there, but has actually won 2 NCAA tourney games from 1999-2006?  If you think that Creighton is some easy place to recruit great talent to, then you must think we are standing on a gold mine here at UNL, just waiting for things to explode.

[HB]

Self was waiting for the KU job to open and was at Illinois at the time. No amount of money would have brought him to Lincoln.

He was still at Tulsa, but the conclusion is the same.

[Dead Dog Alley]

Self was waiting for the KU job to open and was at Illinois at the time. No amount of money would have brought him to Lincoln.

Hate to correct you here, but he was still at Tulsa. He jumped to Illinois when that job came open a couple months later.

[Blindcheck]

Self was waiting for the KU job to open and was at Illinois at the time. No amount of money would have brought him to Lincoln.

Hate to correct you here, but he was still at Tulsa. He jumped to Illinois when that job came open a couple months later.

That is why Bill Self is the Devil.

[AuroranHusker]

Self was waiting for the KU job to open and was at Illinois at the time. No amount of money would have brought him to Lincoln.

 

Actually, Bill Self was still at Tulsa at the time. Self took the Illini job a month later. [This reminds me how Byrne wanted Mack Brown but got Frank Solich planted in his lap.]

[49r]

The thing is though, that even back then it was common knowledge that Self was the next in line for the KU job as soon as Roy retired/moved on and he knew that it would be bad form (at best) to move to KU from a conference school.  Illinois was a much better opportunity for him that allowed more freedom to leave for KU when it came available.

 

Turns out that his destination job came open earlier than anyone expected.  It may not have been the worst thing to miss out on Self.

[Cazzie22]

Bill Self is a great coach.  When the Illinois job opened it was a far better opportunity than NU.  He recruited the players that Bruce Weber took to the Final Four.  He did a fine job at Oral Roberts and Tulsa prior to Illinois and KU.  Self has won everywhere and KU will be a power as long as he remains.  KU cares about Basketball.  North Carolina cares about Basketball, Duke cares about Basketball, Syracuse cares about Basketball, Villanova cares about Basketball.  Some Nebraska fans (those on this board) care equally about NU basketball but not to the extent of the upper echelon schools.

[jimmykc]

I would rate the above teams in the following order when it comes to caring : 1. NU....long pause... 2. North Carolina 3. Duke...another long pause.... 4. KU 5. Villanova ....about football.

[49r]

Hey now, 'Nova's got a top notch FCS football program, I would definitely put them above KU in your list jimmy!

[49r]

Bill Bryne tweeted out last night that he tried everything to get Bill Self to Lincoln.... Suppose that's relevant

 

KNTK - Morning Take:  Former Husker AD Bill Byrne tweets that he thought he had Bill Self coming to Lincoln instead of Illinois back in 2003… what would Husker Hoops have been like if he came?

 

http://www.theticketfm.com/podcasts/morningtake/2016_03_28_04.mp3

(24:55)