Starting PF: Andrew White

[Norm Peterson]

On the other hand ...

 

Andrew White appears clearly to be one of our better shooters, has a beefy physique, and looked for all the world like one of the best rebounders on our team during that open scrimmage.

 

I mean, let's give the poor guy his due.  It's not all bad.

[hhcmatt]

Tai was actually much better as a 3-point threat last year than Shavon.  And Shavon had been at least a reliable threat from deep in his two seasons before that.

Let's just get this out of the way: the argument that a 23.1 3pt% is much better threat than a 19.5 3pt% is just flat out ridiculous

 

In fairness to Tai, everyone was pretty bad last year shooting from deep.  I think it was a team-wide funk and I think there was a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that contributed to the malaise in the program that most people not affiliated with the program might not realize.  There were some pretty big egos coming back from 2 seasons ago and a couple of them were incompatible.

So CAN Tai turn it around and become a threat from deep?  Oh, absolutely.  Will he?  I have no idea.  But I suspect the coaches do.  And, FWIW, Tai has seemed a lot more confident and playing within himself in the action I've seen since last season -- both in Spain and at the scrimmage here.  So, take it for what it's worth, but I'm not ready to kick Tai to the curb.  I still think he can be a pretty good player for us.

 

I'll easily buy that his confidence level is back near or above his freshman level and that the change of roster is a part of it. 

I'll buy that his lack of  confidence led to him going from starting most of his freshman year to coming off the bench and playing less minutes last year.

I'll buy that he starts at least half of our games and is among the top 5 players on the roster in minutes played.

I'll buy he'll be one of our best defenders and a valuable contributor to this team.

I'm not buying that this magically turns Tai, a guy who I've heard admit on a podcast that he doesn't think he's a good shooter, into a good shooter. He most definitely can be a valuable contributor to this team but expecting him to do so as one of our main 3 point threats is a recipe for disaster. As long as Andrew White and at least one other guy can be at least average, there is no reason Tai should be taking over 50-60 3pt attempts per season or else you're setting the guy up to fail.

 

I also think Tai will be a pretty good player for us. I just think it won't be as a shooter.

[lanigan123]

My lineup would be Parker, Tai, White, Shavon and Hammond. Morrow and Watson would be off the bench often and play 20+ a game.

[hhcmatt]

 

 

So what are we thinking the starting lineup will be?

1. Benny/Watson

2. Tai

3. Shavon

4. AW

5. Morrow?

I am one who hopes Miles just goes with Watson as starting PG from the get go. Live through the ups and downs of having a freshman point guard and get Benny back to his come off the bench spark plug/stabilizer role. We know what Benny's ceiling is. Watson's is obviously much higher. We've heard that Watson's defense may be lacking some but that's when you bring in Energizer Benny to crank up the defense or to stabilize things if Watson starts turning the ball over. We don't gain anything by starting Benny. Not a knock on Benny, he's earned his, but he's just better off the bench.

 

I agree 100%, but I won't believe it until I see it.  Miles has almost always chosen defense over offense in these types of situations in his past 3 years here.

 

 

I'd have to agree. Miles doesn't seem like he's married to a certain speed as he's had some faster teams with Colorado St and NDSU but he was slowing the tempo down even before Mo arrived here.  His CSU team that went to the tourney with no one over 6'6" was a slow paced team so our lack of height doesn't necessarily mean we're running this year. 

[AuroranHusker]

Start:

Benny Parker

Tai Webster

Shavon Shields

Andrew White III

Ed Morrow Jr

 

Sprinkle in Glynn Watson Jr & that will be a solid group of starters for Nebrasketball.

[bball23]

One thing to remember.  If NU does play small, a LOT of coaches try to match up defensively.  So if we go small, sometimes the opponent will as well so that they can match up with us on the defensive end.  If AW is playing the 4 and pulling their big away from the rim, they may switch up and put a smaller man in that can get out and defend him.  Especially is he's hitting 3's.

[aphilso1]

One thing to remember.  If NU does play small, a LOT of coaches try to match up defensively.  So if we go small, sometimes the opponent will as well so that they can match up with us on the defensive end.  If AW is playing the 4 and pulling their big away from the rim, they may switch up and put a smaller man in that can get out and defend him.  Especially is he's hitting 3's.

 

I see that as a good thing.  Dictating the style of the game, thereby causing the opponent's coach to react to you, usually works out.  Exhibit A: 2015 NBA Finals.

[Dead Dog Alley]

My lineup would be Parker, Tai, White, Shavon and Hammond. Morrow and Watson would be off the bench often and play 20+ a game.

If you ranked the starters in the Big 10 by position, your starters at the 1, 2, and 5 would each rank 12 to 14.  And I don't see that lineup being any better on offense than last year's team.

[atskooc]

 

I've never understood why White is listed as a guard.  He's 6'7",  relatively slow and can't dribble. Almost nothing about him says guard to me. Not sure about PF either though.  Sure it can work on offense, but defense is always the issue in these small ball arrangements. 

Relatively slow, can't dribble, can't play guard, can't play power forward.

 

Sounds like we should bring him in off the bench in garbage time.  He can take the place of Trevor Menke, maybe. 

 

NO ONE TAKES THE PLACE OF TREVOR MENKE!

 

 

Like you couldn't see that coming.

[lanigan123]

It ranks that way regardless of who you start at those spots, IMO.

[NUdiehard]

 

I've never understood why White is listed as a guard.  He's 6'7",  relatively slow and can't dribble. Almost nothing about him says guard to me. Not sure about PF either though.  Sure it can work on offense, but defense is always the issue in these small ball arrangements. 

Relatively slow, can't dribble, can't play guard, can't play power forward.

 

Sounds like we should bring him in off the bench in garbage time.  He can take the place of Trevor Menke, maybe. 

 

Or we could play him at shooting forward since he is, well. . . . a really good shooter

 

With that said, the more I think about it, maybe PF is a good spot for Drew this year.  Someone has to play PF, and if Hammond is not going to play much, then that means Morrow and Jacobson at center, which pretty much leaves PF to either Shavon or Drew.  Take your pick.  Shavon is 9 lbs heavier on the roster, but White certainly has upper body strength and I agree he appears to be a good rebounder for his size.  Seems to be a good leaper off of 2 feet.  His lack of lateral quickness also might make him more conducive to guarding the opponents PF rather than chasing a wing around.  It certainly would work on offense, that is not a concern at all as he could stretch the floor and force the opposing 4 to guard him at the 3 point line.  The concern is when the opposing 4 backs him down in the paint, can he hold up or will it require an immediately double team.  But, Rivers played the 4 last year and weighed only 200#, so White is considerably bigger than him and probably a better leaper, so why not.  Let's go for it. 

 

My starting lineup:

Watson

Tai

Shields

White

Morrow

[kldm64]

I think most people would agree that Shavon Shields & Andrew White III are both obvious starters with most likely Tai Webster.  While Benny has more experience, Glynn Watson is more talented.  I would love to see both him and Ed Marrow start from the season opener.  I could easily see this line-up happening:

 

Glynn Watson

Tai Webster

Shavon Shields

Andrew White III

Ed Morrow

[Dead Dog Alley]

Kansas assistant Jerrance Howard, quoted in:

 

http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/life-in-the-red/ku-assistant-says-white-a-good-fit-for-nu/article_24f5a652-0232-11e4-a22d-001a4bcf887a.html

 

Had White stayed at KU – which coaches there would’ve preferred – Howard said the staff was talking about trying to play him as a stretch-four, because of his ability to rebound, particularly out of position.

“To me, that’s his big strength, after shooting the basketball,” Howard said. “He’s got a great body.”

 

With Shields and White at the 3 and 4, I don't know that it will be easily discernable as to who is playing which position on offense.  Shields may handle the ball more, but he'll also post up more. On defense it will probably depend on the matchup as to which one is actually the 4.

 

What does this say about Nebraska's ability to go big in the backcourt?  Can they roll out a lineup with Shields, White, and McVeigh at the same time?  Or with Morrow and Jacobson or Hammond at the same time with two of those three?  It appears that Shields would be the 2 in that case.

[Dead Dog Alley]

It ranks that way regardless of who you start at those spots, IMO.

There's a good chance that you are correct, unfortunately.

[Donkey]

One thing to remember.  If NU does play small, a LOT of coaches try to match up defensively.  So if we go small, sometimes the opponent will as well so that they can match up with us on the defensive end.  If AW is playing the 4 and pulling their big away from the rim, they may switch up and put a smaller man in that can get out and defend him.  Especially is he's hitting 3's.

 

People seem to forget that "short" players, e.g. 6'7" and below, does not mean the team is playing small ball.  Long wingspans can be very effective against a traditional "big" lineup.  Look at 2010 WV v. UK in the Elite 8.  Kentucky had a clear size advantage in DeMarcus Cousins and Daniel Orton.  However, WV had 1 player at 6'9", two others 6'7", and everyone else was smaller.  

[Dead Dog Alley]

So - if you have an eight man rotation with a typical distribution of minutes played looking like this, what are they going to look like?

 

            C    PF   SF   SG   PG
Morrow     25   
Jacobson   15
White            20   10
McVeigh          20   
Shields               30    5
Webster                    25
Parker                     10   15
Watson                          25
 

[big red22]

White is going to play the role of a 4 on defense, and he will be the 3 on the offensive end.  Shavon will be the exact reverse.

 

Starting Line Up Based on that will be

 

Watson

Benny

White

Shavon

Morrow

 

Player that will receive meaningful minutes

 

Tai

McVeigh

Jacobson

Hammond

 

Player that will see late game foul trouble minutes

 

Fuller

Evelyn

[big red22]

So - if you have an eight man rotation with a typical distribution of minutes played looking like this, what are they going to look like?

 

            C    PF   SF   SG   PG

Morrow     25   

Jacobson   15

White            20   10

McVeigh          20   

Shields               30    5

Webster                    25

Parker                     10   15

Watson                          25

 

            C    PF   SF   SG   PG

Morrow      5    20

Jacobson   10

Hammond    15 

White             8   20

McVeigh          12   

Shields          10   20    5

Webster                5   15    5

Parker                     10   15

Watson                          25

[Donkey]

White is going to play the role of a 4 on defense, and he will be the 3 on the offensive end.  Shavon will be the exact reverse.

 

Starting Line Up Based on that will be

 

Watson

Benny

White

Shavon

Morrow

 

Player that will receive meaningful minutes

 

Tai

McVeigh

Jacobson

Hammond

 

Player that will see late game foul trouble minutes

 

Fuller

Evelyn

 

Swap Tai for Benny and Fuller for Hammond based upon what I have been told.  I get the impression the staff really likes Benny coming off the bench.  Tai would have the tougher guard assignment.  

[hhcmatt]

 

White is going to play the role of a 4 on defense, and he will be the 3 on the offensive end.  Shavon will be the exact reverse.

 

Starting Line Up Based on that will be

 

Watson

Benny

White

Shavon

Morrow

 

Player that will receive meaningful minutes

 

Tai

McVeigh

Jacobson

Hammond

 

Player that will see late game foul trouble minutes

 

Fuller

Evelyn

 

Swap Tai for Benny and Fuller for Hammond based upon what I have been told.  I get the impression the staff really likes Benny coming off the bench.  Tai would have the tougher guard assignment.  

 

 

That's not a great sign if Hammond can't crack the rotation

 

I've been hearing enough buzz about Watson from everywhere to make me think he starts day one.

Breaking up Tai and Benny makes sense.

[Fullbacksympathy]

I don't mind White at PF.  He's bulky enough and he's going to be a pain in the ass to chase around the perimeter on offense.

 

2/3 deep?

 

Watson/Benny/Bakari

Benny/Tai/Bakari

Shavon/McVeigh

White/Jacobson/Fuller

Morrow/Hammond

 

The more I look at the options (which we've really never had), the more excited I get, but that's an intriguing starting 5. 

[Norm Peterson]

 

Tai was actually much better as a 3-point threat last year than Shavon.  And Shavon had been at least a reliable threat from deep in his two seasons before that.

Let's just get this out of the way: the argument that a 23.1 3pt% is much better threat than a 19.5 3pt% is just flat out ridiculous

 

In fairness to Tai, everyone was pretty bad last year shooting from deep.  I think it was a team-wide funk and I think there was a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that contributed to the malaise in the program that most people not affiliated with the program might not realize.  There were some pretty big egos coming back from 2 seasons ago and a couple of them were incompatible.

So CAN Tai turn it around and become a threat from deep?  Oh, absolutely.  Will he?  I have no idea.  But I suspect the coaches do.  And, FWIW, Tai has seemed a lot more confident and playing within himself in the action I've seen since last season -- both in Spain and at the scrimmage here.  So, take it for what it's worth, but I'm not ready to kick Tai to the curb.  I still think he can be a pretty good player for us.

 

I'll easily buy that his confidence level is back near or above his freshman level and that the change of roster is a part of it. 

I'll buy that his lack of  confidence led to him going from starting most of his freshman year to coming off the bench and playing less minutes last year.

I'll buy that he starts at least half of our games and is among the top 5 players on the roster in minutes played.

I'll buy he'll be one of our best defenders and a valuable contributor to this team.

I'm not buying that this magically turns Tai, a guy who I've heard admit on a podcast that he doesn't think he's a good shooter, into a good shooter. He most definitely can be a valuable contributor to this team but expecting him to do so as one of our main 3 point threats is a recipe for disaster. As long as Andrew White and at least one other guy can be at least average, there is no reason Tai should be taking over 50-60 3pt attempts per season or else you're setting the guy up to fail.

 

I also think Tai will be a pretty good player for us. I just think it won't be as a shooter.

 

 

Beggin' your pardon, King Yurtle, but nowhere did I say Tai would be a good 3-point shooter.  I was responding to your post where you said, and I quote, "Tai is a career 20% 3pt shooter. There should be no lineup/configuration that is dependent on him being a 3pt threat."

 

And the very first sentence of my response was, and I quote, "In fairness to Tai, everyone was pretty bad last year shooting from deep."  That's not saying Tai's good; it's saying he wasn't the only one who was bad.

 

And there's a difference between "being a threat" and "being good." 

 

Ray Gallegos was a threat but I don't think anyone would say Ray Gallegos was good.  And if Tai makes the same or similar incremental improvement between his sophomore and junior years as he did between his freshman and sophomore years, he'll be in Ray Gallegos territory for 3-point accuracy.  Which at least makes him a threat.

 

Now, whether 23.1% is "much better" than 19.5%, I guess if you want to quibble with one word in the context of a much larger point, fine.  Delete the word "much" from that sentence if it makes you feel better.  But let's examine those numbers in the abstract. 

 

You know how, if you get a 16 oz. bottle of pop instead of a 12 oz. bottle, they'll sometimes say on the label that it's 1/3 more?  Well, examining those numbers in the abstract, 23.1 is 18.5% more than 19.5.  In other words, you can multiply 19.5 x 1 and come up with 100% of 19.5.  Multiply it by 1.185 (18.5% more) and you get ~ 23.1.  So, 23.1 is 18.5% more than 19.5. 

 

Is that "much" more?  I don't know.  Arguably it is.  More arguable than, say, cherry-picking one word out of a long post and saying the use of that one word was flat out ridiculous.

[MichHusker]

What this tells me is Hammond will not start unless its for the opening tip. Our three and four will look the same on offense, and I could see Andrew White guarding the four on defense since he has more bulk than Shavon.

What i have heard is that Hammond just really isn't that good. Hopefully I'm wrong tho

[Norm Peterson]

What this tells me is Hammond will not start unless its for the opening tip. Our three and four will look the same on offense, and I could see Andrew White guarding the four on defense since he has more bulk than Shavon.

What i have heard is that Hammond just really isn't that good. Hopefully I'm wrong tho

In fairness to Hammond, he's not that bad. He is not a stiff like Sergej was. But he clearly does not have the game that Brian Diaz had. But I think he also has a tougher mindset than Diaz. He has potential. You cannot coach height. He certainly has height and length. He just needs to add a lot more mass and probably needs to spend a lot more time in some individual workouts developing some skills.

[Norm Peterson]

So - if you have an eight man rotation with a typical distribution of minutes played looking like this, what are they going to look like?

C PF SF SG PG

Morrow 25

Jacobson 15

White 20 10

McVeigh 20

Shields 30 5

Webster 25

Parker 10 15

Watson 25

C PF SF SG PG

Morrow 5 20

Jacobson

10

Hammond 15

White 8 20

McVeigh 12

Shields 10 20 5

Webster 5 15 5

Parker 10 15

Watson 25

I could see something along these lines in terms of minutes per player (minutes per position are off slightly.). For what it's worth, I think we will be a nine deep rotation team this year. We have more talent in depth this time around. Granted, Miles has not gone nine deep in the past, but that's mostly because we didn't have the personnel to go nine deep. We do now and maybe then some. I think the breakdown you propose is fairly reasonable. Obviously the end result will vary.