The refs sucked

[Noah121]

 

 

At one point after he was called for an offensive foul, TP stood up and made contact with Dorsey.  I (obviously) thought it was a bad call, as did 15,000 of my friends...but when contact was made, I about had a stroke.  I thought for sure TP would be teed up and likely thrown out of the game.  When he wasn't, in the back of my feeble brain, I figured Dorsey thought he had blown the call, and made the quick decision NOT to provide the T. 

 

Now if that had been Teddy TV, he likely would have fallen backwards, stood up, pointed at TP and then Teed him up.

 

And/or would have gotten the second "BOOM" technical foul for Nebraska on this season.

 

 

 

Must have been a pretty rough night for you, Noah...I saw you on TV sticking out the Northwestern game to the bitter end, then having to come back to watch the Huskers do what they did.

 

At least the rest of us only had one disappointment to sit through last night.

 

 

Yes, indeed.  The start of the Nebraska game was basically me taking the tape of the Northwestern/Michigan State game, rewinding it, and hitting the PLAY button.  When it rains, it pours.

 

At least both of my women's teams are doing well... though the Husker women have taken some lumps due to Theriot's injury.

[Bugeaters1]

 

 

Yeah, I saw the cop having a discussion with a couple of courtside guys.  They immediately started pointed all across the student section to people who were also booing (as if to say, what're you gonna do, kick us all out?)  Cop went back to his post.  Ref didn't push it.  Lucky for him.  There might not have been enough security in the building at that point.

Ah yes, that was during a timeout in the second half.  I actually saw 7 security guards, 3 of which were Armed form a wall to stop the lower section so the refs could leave, and each ref had an armed police officer walk them through the tunnel.  The Bald one had a smirk on his face.  What is his name?  I'd like to have a chat with him.

 

 

 

I believe he goes by POS, otherwise known as Brian Dorsey.  The others, of course, are the VERY well-known Ted "TV" Valentine and Gene 'I do NFL too' Steratore. All had an off night, all around.

 

Is that Steratore tied to the mob? He has a cousin or nephew that does womens games and he has his hair all slicked back like he is a don or something. But I think he is a good ref.

[Bugeaters1]

 

 

 

Yeah, I saw the cop having a discussion with a couple of courtside guys.  They immediately started pointed all across the student section to people who were also booing (as if to say, what're you gonna do, kick us all out?)  Cop went back to his post.  Ref didn't push it.  Lucky for him.  There might not have been enough security in the building at that point.

Ah yes, that was during a timeout in the second half.  I actually saw 7 security guards, 3 of which were Armed form a wall to stop the lower section so the refs could leave, and each ref had an armed police officer walk them through the tunnel.  The Bald one had a smirk on his face.  What is his name?  I'd like to have a chat with him.

 

 

 

I believe he goes by POS, otherwise known as Brian Dorsey.  The others, of course, are the VERY well-known Ted "TV" Valentine and Gene 'I do NFL too' Steratore. All had an off night, all around.

 

 

Unfortunately Brian Dorsey has an ego.   Sure, the man is handsome and he knows it.    But I know a lot of handsome men who don't act so arrogant.  

 

 

 

He looks like Homer Simpson.

[kldm64]

 

Not saying the ref'ing was good by any stretch but I can't even begin to point my finger in that direction when we only scored 13 points yet again in the first half. 

Look... you can use that excuse as it is the easy way to take the "We would have lost anyways" approach.  The problem with this is simple.  

 

You do realize that one of the worst calls hasn't even been mentioned... the "And 1" that was called "on the floor" against Webster.  We get that and it puts us at 16...  They call the very next play a block against Wisconsin instead of a charge... Petteway hits them both...  27-18 doesn't look quite as bad does it.

 

What was the score with 1:20 left again?  58-53

 

You add those 5 points and guess what... our comeback ties the game and it is a completely different game in the last seconds.

 

EVERY bad call counts and it effects the outcome of the game, and those two to end the first half are a BIG reason why we lost the game

 

 

I agree and understand but the ref could have also given Petteway a Technical and tossed him from the game for putting his hands on him.  I don't think the ref'ing was great but don't believe that is why we lost the game either.  We would have lost even with good ref's as we just didn't play well enough to win.

[Bugeaters1]

And the players apparently agreed with that assessment.

 

http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/nu-notes-petteway-frustrated-with-officiating/article_40615e81-ba60-55b2-9358-bb10a3b54fda.html

 

“Our games have been called like that the whole year, so it’s just something we got to mentally prepare for the whole game,” he said. “That’s what we tell each other, every time we come out, we know we’re going to be playing 5-on-8 every time."

You have to wonder if TP will get the automatic Reprimand for saying that.

[Silverbacked1]

I think most if not all of us know it wasn't the refs who lost this game. We are just, or at least I am, saying that this game wasn't called that well over all. And that many of us feel that there are certain referees that aren't very good yet get to continue to work and for some reason can't be called out for their poor effort during games.

[GATA]

I think most if not all of us know it wasn't the refs who lost this game. We are just, or at least I am, saying that this game wasn't called that well over all. And that many of us feel that there are certain referees that aren't very good yet get to continue to work and for some reason can't be called out for their poor effort during games.

I found it very odd that Dakich defended the refs so much last night, especially when he mentioned several times that there were make-up calls. If you have to have a makeup call, then you got the previous call wrong. And it happened multiple times.

[Bugeaters1]

According to some ref's there is no such thing as a make up call.

[Danger2014]

First post, long time reader. 

 

First of all, how many people here posting how bad the refs sucked have ever officiated a basketball game? I'm guessing nobody has.

 

Before I became a basketball official, I used to yell at refs from the tv, and I thought they were a lot of bad officials. Boy did my opinion change after I completed my first year of basketball officiating. 

 

My point is that officials make mistakes. It's easy to sit in the stands and criticize a bad call and forget the big picture. That big picture is the fact that it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to the officiating as the game progresses and NEVER will one game be completely decided because of the officials. 

 

Also officials are human beings just like everyone else. Imagine you are out on the court and you have to make a split second decision on a call. You know that no matter what call you make people will criticize. Does that sound very easy? Also these officials have worked hard to get where they are, officiated a ton of games to get where they are, and just like players try to get better.

 

I know it can be frustrating to see a couple calls that don't go the Huskers way. But believe me, there will be games in the future when we will be on the favorable side of some calls. 

[Bugeaters1]

First post, long time reader. 

 

First of all, how many people here posting how bad the refs sucked have ever officiated a basketball game? I'm guessing nobody has.

 

Before I became a basketball official, I used to yell at refs from the tv, and I thought they were a lot of bad officials. Boy did my opinion change after I completed my first year of basketball officiating. 

 

My point is that officials make mistakes. It's easy to sit in the stands and criticize a bad call and forget the big picture. That big picture is the fact that it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to the officiating as the game progresses and NEVER will one game be completely decided because of the officials. 

 

Also officials are human beings just like everyone else. Imagine you are out on the court and you have to make a split second decision on a call. You know that no matter what call you make people will criticize. Does that sound very easy? Also these officials have worked hard to get where they are, officiated a ton of games to get where they are, and just like players try to get better.

 

I know it can be frustrating to see a couple calls that don't go the Huskers way. But believe me, there will be games in the future when we will be on the favorable side of some calls. 

I have and it is tough, What I found in doing a game is anticipating a call. and when the play doesn't unfold the way you think it would have you are stuck having to makeup a call.

[Silverbacked1]

First post, long time reader. 

 

First of all, how many people here posting how bad the refs sucked have ever officiated a basketball game? I'm guessing nobody has.

 

Before I became a basketball official, I used to yell at refs from the tv, and I thought they were a lot of bad officials. Boy did my opinion change after I completed my first year of basketball officiating. 

 

My point is that officials make mistakes. It's easy to sit in the stands and criticize a bad call and forget the big picture. That big picture is the fact that it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to the officiating as the game progresses and NEVER will one game be completely decided because of the officials. 

 

Also officials are human beings just like everyone else. Imagine you are out on the court and you have to make a split second decision on a call. You know that no matter what call you make people will criticize. Does that sound very easy? Also these officials have worked hard to get where they are, officiated a ton of games to get where they are, and just like players try to get better.

 

I know it can be frustrating to see a couple calls that don't go the Huskers way. But believe me, there will be games in the future when we will be on the favorable side of some calls.

I will agree some with your post. First of all welcome.

All three of my sons either have reffed or umpired games so I do understand what happens somewhat. But my on son is hard on refs because he get thinks that bad refs and there are some make it harder on him because people lump all refs together. He is happiest when afterwards nobody talks to him because then he feels that he didn't do anything to change the out come, or preseved out come. He also tells me some of the best things he has had yelled at him at are completely out of control. And he does admit that some nights he is "off" some.

[49r]

First post, long time reader. 

 

First of all, how many people here posting how bad the refs sucked have ever officiated a basketball game? I'm guessing nobody has.

 

Before I became a basketball official, I used to yell at refs from the tv, and I thought they were a lot of bad officials. Boy did my opinion change after I completed my first year of basketball officiating. 

 

My point is that officials make mistakes. It's easy to sit in the stands and criticize a bad call and forget the big picture. That big picture is the fact that it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to the officiating as the game progresses and NEVER will one game be completely decided because of the officials. 

 

Also officials are human beings just like everyone else. Imagine you are out on the court and you have to make a split second decision on a call. You know that no matter what call you make people will criticize. Does that sound very easy? Also these officials have worked hard to get where they are, officiated a ton of games to get where they are, and just like players try to get better.

 

I know it can be frustrating to see a couple calls that don't go the Huskers way. But believe me, there will be games in the future when we will be on the favorable side of some calls. 

 

It's not just sometimes, I try to be as objective as I possibly can (to the point of playing devil's advocate for most close calls) when watching the Huskers play and to be completely fair, we get a decent share of bad calls going our way in almost every game.  Refs are an easy scapegoat after a frustrating loss.

 

Having said that though, there were a series of pretty terrible calls against us last night and not really much that would make you think Wisconsin got anything but 100% benefit of the doubt.  In their defense, they are an outstanding team and play so fundamentally well that they didn't give the refs too many chances to make mistakes.  Perhaps they 'earned' some favor.  I will say though, that the one I was expecting to make us all pull our hair out was "TV" Valentine, but he did a pretty good job IMO.

 

Great first post, Danger.  Welcome to the board and please keep contributing to the conversation!

[AuroranHusker]

I thought it was interesting that even the Madison newspaper had mentions of Nebraska in regards to refereeing. And not nearly as 'scathing' as the local Lincoln/Omaha papers made Petteway's look without this added context. Yeah, the 5-on-8 comment is pretty ridiculous but this contextual info that Terran did not blame the refs nearly as much as purported to in the local rags is important to note as well. Terran probably had a reason to believe that 31-12 foul disparity likely led to Nebraska's misfortunes to cash-in with FT opportunities when you consider only 8 attempts of the UW 31 were in the final 1 min while NU only had 10 all night.

 

http://m.host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-uw-holds-off-nebraska-to-open/article_6724ef6b-b58a-588b-ba54-437ee0a25d5e.html?mobile_touch=true

[49r]

I thought it was interesting that even the Madison newspaper had mentions of Nebraska in regards to refereeing. And not nearly as 'scathing' as the local Lincoln/Omaha papers made Petteway's look without this added context. Yeah, the 5-on-8 comment is pretty ridiculous but this contextual info that Terran did not blame the refs nearly as much as purported to in the local rags is important to note as well. Terran probably had a reason to believe that 31-12 foul disparity likely led to Nebraska's misfortunes to cash-in with FT opportunities when you consider only 8 attempts of the UW 31 were in the final 1 min while NU only had 10 all night.

 

http://m.host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-uw-holds-off-nebraska-to-open/article_6724ef6b-b58a-588b-ba54-437ee0a25d5e.html?mobile_touch=true

 

Do you mean this quote?

 

 

UW was only whistled for 12 fouls, a number that Petteway thought was too low.

“We were trying to get to the basket, but it was just one of those nights where we weren’t getting any calls,” he said. “You’ve got to give credit to Frank Kaminsky. He did his job. Coach Bo Ryan told him to stay vertical, and the refs didn’t call it.”

Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-uw-holds-off-nebraska-to-open/article_6724ef6b-b58a-588b-ba54-437ee0a25d5e.html#ixzz3RTjxgjkp

[AuroranHusker]

 

I thought it was interesting that even the Madison newspaper had mentions of Nebraska in regards to refereeing. And not nearly as 'scathing' as the local Lincoln/Omaha papers made Petteway's look without this added context. Yeah, the 5-on-8 comment is pretty ridiculous but this contextual info that Terran did not blame the refs nearly as much as purported to in the local rags is important to note as well. Terran probably had a reason to believe that 31-12 foul disparity likely led to Nebraska's misfortunes to cash-in with FT opportunities when you consider only 8 attempts of the UW 31 were in the final 1 min while NU only had 10 all night.

 

http://m.host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-uw-holds-off-nebraska-to-open/article_6724ef6b-b58a-588b-ba54-437ee0a25d5e.html?mobile_touch=true

 

Do you mean this quote?

 

 

UW was only whistled for 12 fouls, a number that Petteway thought was too low.

“We were trying to get to the basket, but it was just one of those nights where we weren’t getting any calls,” he said. “You’ve got to give credit to Frank Kaminsky. He did his job. Coach Bo Ryan told him to stay vertical, and the refs didn’t call it.”

Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-uw-holds-off-nebraska-to-open/article_6724ef6b-b58a-588b-ba54-437ee0a25d5e.html#ixzz3RTjxgjkp

 

 

Yep; That quote doesn't seem nearly as off-putting in this context, does it?

[Norm Peterson]

First post, long time reader. 

 

First of all, how many people here posting how bad the refs sucked have ever officiated a basketball game? I'm guessing nobody has.

 

Before I became a basketball official, I used to yell at refs from the tv, and I thought they were a lot of bad officials. Boy did my opinion change after I completed my first year of basketball officiating. 

 

My point is that officials make mistakes. It's easy to sit in the stands and criticize a bad call and forget the big picture. That big picture is the fact that it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to the officiating as the game progresses and NEVER will one game be completely decided because of the officials. 

 

Also officials are human beings just like everyone else. Imagine you are out on the court and you have to make a split second decision on a call. You know that no matter what call you make people will criticize. Does that sound very easy? Also these officials have worked hard to get where they are, officiated a ton of games to get where they are, and just like players try to get better.

 

I know it can be frustrating to see a couple calls that don't go the Huskers way. But believe me, there will be games in the future when we will be on the favorable side of some calls. 

Danger, at what level did you officiate?

 

I have some experience both as a player and a very small amount of experience coaching youth basketball.

 

It's not when officials don't conform their foul calls to the style I prefer to play that bothers me.  It's when they're blatantly inconsistent that bothers me.

 

Let me give you an example.

 

One time, a team of 6th graders I was coaching was just getting waxed.  Pasted.  I think we were up against Kidney's 4th grade girls and they were obviously more experienced and better coached than my boys were.  But, anyway ... the better team got the benefit of any doubt on calls.  It's like the officials figured that the team in the maroon jerseys, since they're winning big, must know more about basketball than the team in the white jerseys.  Therefore, a mauling of the ball handler coming this way is a clean strip; whereas a touch foul going that way is a whistle.

 

I think psychologists might call it something like "expectation bias" or something like that.  Whoever you think the better team is must also be better at not fouling.

 

Be cognizant of that bias when you officiate.  Just because the other team has clearly more experienced players, a foul is still a foul.  And if you're not going to blow a whistle when they rip the ball out of my kids' hands then you shouldn't blow the whistle when the same exact thing happens on the other side.

 

Last night, I thought the officials were suffering some sort of expectation bias.  What was a foul for me wasn't necessarily a foul for thee.  What was too much contact when we did it was copacetic when they did it.  It's not the style, necessarily.  As you say, I can adjust to the style.  What I can't adjust to is the inconsistency.

[PeltzFan12]

Was at the game last night.  DVR'd game, per usual.  Watched all of the controversial plays.

 

Norm, you are absolutely correct on the calls being inconsistent.

51.4 seconds in the half.  Dekker shoots a free throw, Walt rebounds, Kaminsky reaches in, makes contact, no call.  At a different time of the game, after a Wisconsin player got a rebound, Rivers reached in and made far less contact and immediately got called for the foul.  What was the difference?  Kaminsky getting NBA treatment?

 

Right before half, Webster did NOT get fouled on the floor, first contact by #13 was in the air in the act of shooting.  That should have counted and been AND 1.

They call the foul actually on #3 Showalter.  

 

Then Petteway's drive to the basket, where Kaminsky and Petteway make contact.  Dakich says "to me that's NEVER called in college basketball."  Until Bald dude works the game.  

 

That was a rough 51 second stretch.

[Danger2014]

 

First post, long time reader. 

 

First of all, how many people here posting how bad the refs sucked have ever officiated a basketball game? I'm guessing nobody has.

 

Before I became a basketball official, I used to yell at refs from the tv, and I thought they were a lot of bad officials. Boy did my opinion change after I completed my first year of basketball officiating. 

 

My point is that officials make mistakes. It's easy to sit in the stands and criticize a bad call and forget the big picture. That big picture is the fact that it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to the officiating as the game progresses and NEVER will one game be completely decided because of the officials. 

 

Also officials are human beings just like everyone else. Imagine you are out on the court and you have to make a split second decision on a call. You know that no matter what call you make people will criticize. Does that sound very easy? Also these officials have worked hard to get where they are, officiated a ton of games to get where they are, and just like players try to get better.

 

I know it can be frustrating to see a couple calls that don't go the Huskers way. But believe me, there will be games in the future when we will be on the favorable side of some calls. 

Danger, at what level did you officiate?

 

I have some experience both as a player and a very small amount of experience coaching youth basketball.

 

It's not when officials don't conform their foul calls to the style I prefer to play that bothers me.  It's when they're blatantly inconsistent that bothers me.

 

Let me give you an example.

 

One time, a team of 6th graders I was coaching was just getting waxed.  Pasted.  I think we were up against Kidney's 4th grade girls and they were obviously more experienced and better coached than my boys were.  But, anyway ... the better team got the benefit of any doubt on calls.  It's like the officials figured that the team in the maroon jerseys, since they're winning big, must know more about basketball than the team in the white jerseys.  Therefore, a mauling of the ball handler coming this way is a clean strip; whereas a touch foul going that way is a whistle.

 

I think psychologists might call it something like "expectation bias" or something like that.  Whoever you think the better team is must also be better at not fouling.

 

Be cognizant of that bias when you officiate.  Just because the other team has clearly more experienced players, a foul is still a foul.  And if you're not going to blow a whistle when they rip the ball out of my kids' hands then you shouldn't blow the whistle when the same exact thing happens on the other side.

 

Last night, I thought the officials were suffering some sort of expectation bias.  What was a foul for me wasn't necessarily a foul for thee.  What was too much contact when we did it was copacetic when they did it.  It's not the style, necessarily.  As you say, I can adjust to the style.  What I can't adjust to is the inconsistency.

 

Right now I'm at the high school level and below. I do some varsity small town games, JV games, Freshman games, and some Junior High. Good thoughts, Norm. It's hard to know for sure, but maybe they did have some expectation bias. 

[Bugeaters1]

 

 

First post, long time reader. 

 

First of all, how many people here posting how bad the refs sucked have ever officiated a basketball game? I'm guessing nobody has.

 

Before I became a basketball official, I used to yell at refs from the tv, and I thought they were a lot of bad officials. Boy did my opinion change after I completed my first year of basketball officiating. 

 

My point is that officials make mistakes. It's easy to sit in the stands and criticize a bad call and forget the big picture. That big picture is the fact that it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to the officiating as the game progresses and NEVER will one game be completely decided because of the officials. 

 

Also officials are human beings just like everyone else. Imagine you are out on the court and you have to make a split second decision on a call. You know that no matter what call you make people will criticize. Does that sound very easy? Also these officials have worked hard to get where they are, officiated a ton of games to get where they are, and just like players try to get better.

 

I know it can be frustrating to see a couple calls that don't go the Huskers way. But believe me, there will be games in the future when we will be on the favorable side of some calls. 

Danger, at what level did you officiate?

 

I have some experience both as a player and a very small amount of experience coaching youth basketball.

 

It's not when officials don't conform their foul calls to the style I prefer to play that bothers me.  It's when they're blatantly inconsistent that bothers me.

 

Let me give you an example.

 

One time, a team of 6th graders I was coaching was just getting waxed.  Pasted.  I think we were up against Kidney's 4th grade girls and they were obviously more experienced and better coached than my boys were.  But, anyway ... the better team got the benefit of any doubt on calls.  It's like the officials figured that the team in the maroon jerseys, since they're winning big, must know more about basketball than the team in the white jerseys.  Therefore, a mauling of the ball handler coming this way is a clean strip; whereas a touch foul going that way is a whistle.

 

I think psychologists might call it something like "expectation bias" or something like that.  Whoever you think the better team is must also be better at not fouling.

 

Be cognizant of that bias when you officiate.  Just because the other team has clearly more experienced players, a foul is still a foul.  And if you're not going to blow a whistle when they rip the ball out of my kids' hands then you shouldn't blow the whistle when the same exact thing happens on the other side.

 

Last night, I thought the officials were suffering some sort of expectation bias.  What was a foul for me wasn't necessarily a foul for thee.  What was too much contact when we did it was copacetic when they did it.  It's not the style, necessarily.  As you say, I can adjust to the style.  What I can't adjust to is the inconsistency.

 

Right now I'm at the high school level and below. I do some varsity small town games, JV games, Freshman games, and some Junior High. Good thoughts, Norm. It's hard to know for sure, but maybe they did have some expectation bias. 

 

Do you by chance know what an NCAA Division ref makes per game Danger2014?

[Noah121]

I officiated for Nebraska intramurals during my senior year there, and it was mentally taxing to officiate, since any complaints were by people who were usually a lot bigger and stronger than me.  But I never got confrontational.

 

I don't think I was a very good basketball official, as my split decisions are sometimes slow.  But I did OK working flag football.

[Danger2014]

 

 

 

First post, long time reader. 

 

First of all, how many people here posting how bad the refs sucked have ever officiated a basketball game? I'm guessing nobody has.

 

Before I became a basketball official, I used to yell at refs from the tv, and I thought they were a lot of bad officials. Boy did my opinion change after I completed my first year of basketball officiating. 

 

My point is that officials make mistakes. It's easy to sit in the stands and criticize a bad call and forget the big picture. That big picture is the fact that it's up to the coaches and players to adjust to the officiating as the game progresses and NEVER will one game be completely decided because of the officials. 

 

Also officials are human beings just like everyone else. Imagine you are out on the court and you have to make a split second decision on a call. You know that no matter what call you make people will criticize. Does that sound very easy? Also these officials have worked hard to get where they are, officiated a ton of games to get where they are, and just like players try to get better.

 

I know it can be frustrating to see a couple calls that don't go the Huskers way. But believe me, there will be games in the future when we will be on the favorable side of some calls. 

Danger, at what level did you officiate?

 

I have some experience both as a player and a very small amount of experience coaching youth basketball.

 

It's not when officials don't conform their foul calls to the style I prefer to play that bothers me.  It's when they're blatantly inconsistent that bothers me.

 

Let me give you an example.

 

One time, a team of 6th graders I was coaching was just getting waxed.  Pasted.  I think we were up against Kidney's 4th grade girls and they were obviously more experienced and better coached than my boys were.  But, anyway ... the better team got the benefit of any doubt on calls.  It's like the officials figured that the team in the maroon jerseys, since they're winning big, must know more about basketball than the team in the white jerseys.  Therefore, a mauling of the ball handler coming this way is a clean strip; whereas a touch foul going that way is a whistle.

 

I think psychologists might call it something like "expectation bias" or something like that.  Whoever you think the better team is must also be better at not fouling.

 

Be cognizant of that bias when you officiate.  Just because the other team has clearly more experienced players, a foul is still a foul.  And if you're not going to blow a whistle when they rip the ball out of my kids' hands then you shouldn't blow the whistle when the same exact thing happens on the other side.

 

Last night, I thought the officials were suffering some sort of expectation bias.  What was a foul for me wasn't necessarily a foul for thee.  What was too much contact when we did it was copacetic when they did it.  It's not the style, necessarily.  As you say, I can adjust to the style.  What I can't adjust to is the inconsistency.

 

Right now I'm at the high school level and below. I do some varsity small town games, JV games, Freshman games, and some Junior High. Good thoughts, Norm. It's hard to know for sure, but maybe they did have some expectation bias. 

 

Do you by chance know what an NCAA Division ref makes per game Danger2014?

 

Yes. They average about $700 per game, depending on what conference. 

[Dean Smith]

 

 

Even the small things like - the ref calling for the ball and Petteway intentionally dropping it after going out of his way to pick it up just to spite the ref - are the little things that add up and psychologically harm your chances.

I'd agree...Self-fulfilling prophesy.

I think I saw the same event with Petteway but I didn't interpret it the same way as H4tS. Petteway didn't go out of his way to get the official the ball but there was nothing overtly spiteful about what Petteway did as far as what I saw.

I don't want to stir the pot but all the other stuff aside he deserved T'ed up for that alone. He intentionally showed the ref up who I think then showed great restraint in not jackin' TP.

 

btw- I think the refs sucked too.

[hhcmatt]

 

The replay clearly showed he intentionally made contact with the referee.  Yes, the replay also showed it was a bad call, but his response to it was unacceptable.  I'm amazed he was not ejected. The camera also caught at least two other examples of TP throwing a temper tantrum on the court which could have resulted in a technical foul for swatting the ball out of a UW player's hand and a flagrant foul for shoving a UW player near the sideline.  Both occurred during dead ball situations.  And I'm not even counting his enthusiastic response to his head coach during a timeout.  If TP played for an opposing team, there would be a thread 20 pages long on this board describing what a punk he is.  There are too many TV cameras for him to get away with what he does.  Almost like the "Bo-cam" during football games.  In fact, his "5 against 8" remark reminds me a lot of the "us against the world" attitude a certain football team recently used as motivation.  It didn't serve them well, especially in big games.  I no longer care how much he wants to win, how much he wants his teammates to succeed, how hard he worked all summer, and how "competitive" he is.  When faced with adversity, he plays with the emotional composure of Barney Fife, and that hurts his team!   Yes, he wears his emotions on his sleeve, and it's not a good look for him. Talented?  Yes.  Emotionally mature?  I'm not seeing it.

 

This is from a different thread but it seemed relevant towards this thread.

 

The conference stopped showing replays on the court. In some regards, it certainly helps to keep crowds from completely flipping out when a call is obvious wrong against the home team. On the flip side, when something happens and it's clearly one of our players at fault the crowd doesn't get the chance to realize that the ref's made the right call. When I saw Petteway make contact with the ref I assumed it was incidental, part of him quickly rising to his feet to complain about a 50-50 call. The ref not calling a T made me think it was incidental as well. I haven't seen the replay so I don't know.  I felt the same way about Pitchford getting tossed against Michigan St until I saw the replay. You bet he deserved it.

[Norm Peterson]

 

 

 

Even the small things like - the ref calling for the ball and Petteway intentionally dropping it after going out of his way to pick it up just to spite the ref - are the little things that add up and psychologically harm your chances.

I'd agree...Self-fulfilling prophesy.

I think I saw the same event with Petteway but I didn't interpret it the same way as H4tS. Petteway didn't go out of his way to get the official the ball but there was nothing overtly spiteful about what Petteway did as far as what I saw.

I don't want to stir the pot but all the other stuff aside he deserved T'ed up for that alone. He intentionally showed the ref up who I think then showed great restraint in not jackin' TP.

 

btw- I think the refs sucked too.

 

I might not have seen the same event, then.  Maybe someone can find video. 

 

What I saw was one time, I can't recall exactly what preceded it now, but maybe after a made free throw or something, Terran was in between the ref and the ball.  He picked up the ball from kind of in the lane and dropped it on the other side of him, closer to where the ref was standing for the ball to be inbounded. 

 

I thought at the time that Terran could have done a little more to bounce the ball closer to the ref, but I guess it looked to me like maybe the ref wasn't making eye-contact with Terran to see the ball if Terran did bounce it to him and so Terran just let it drop instead.  I was looking right at Terran and he didn't display any kind of spiteful vibe that I could see. 

 

I just remember thinking at the time that he didn't go out of his way to get the ball over to where the ref was but nothing obviously disrespectful.  But maybe I was looking at a different situation and what you guys are talking about happened at a different time.

[atskooc]

 

 

 

 

Even the small things like - the ref calling for the ball and Petteway intentionally dropping it after going out of his way to pick it up just to spite the ref - are the little things that add up and psychologically harm your chances.

I'd agree...Self-fulfilling prophesy.

I think I saw the same event with Petteway but I didn't interpret it the same way as H4tS. Petteway didn't go out of his way to get the official the ball but there was nothing overtly spiteful about what Petteway did as far as what I saw.

I don't want to stir the pot but all the other stuff aside he deserved T'ed up for that alone. He intentionally showed the ref up who I think then showed great restraint in not jackin' TP.

 

btw- I think the refs sucked too.

 

I might not have seen the same event, then.  Maybe someone can find video. 

 

What I saw was one time, I can't recall exactly what preceded it now, but maybe after a made free throw or something, Terran was in between the ref and the ball.  He picked up the ball from kind of in the lane and dropped it on the other side of him, closer to where the ref was standing for the ball to be inbounded. 

 

I thought at the time that Terran could have done a little more to bounce the ball closer to the ref, but I guess it looked to me like maybe the ref wasn't making eye-contact with Terran to see the ball if Terran did bounce it to him and so Terran just let it drop instead.  I was looking right at Terran and he didn't display any kind of spiteful vibe that I could see. 

 

I just remember thinking at the time that he didn't go out of his way to get the ball over to where the ref was but nothing obviously disrespectful.  But maybe I was looking at a different situation and what you guys are talking about happened at a different time.

 

The incident I recall was on the sideline (heading towards halfcourt-ish).  It was shortly after his "bumping" (for lack of a better term right now) the ref.  TP was after a loose ball with a Sconnie player.  I thought TP may have thrown a bit of a shoulder/elbow at the kid as they were lunging for the ball at the boundry.  Whistle from the ref who was by the baseline.  TP probably thought he got caught.  TP picked up the ball as to give it to the ref, and then he dropped it where it was.

 

Am I remembering that correctly?