Players on scholarship

[hhcmatt]

Nudiehard is making a good point that these 7ft kids getting barely any playing time their freshman/sophomore year is not a valid indicator of future success.

 

Wisconsin is the model of bringing in complete stiffs that transform into viable college centers.  Get ready for either 

Evan Anderson or Frank Kaminsky to "come out of nowhere" where "nowhere" has been Wisconsin developing them for the last 2-3 years.

 

Check out the Freshman/Sophomore year stats of Withey and Berggren.  They barely played. 

 

Jeff Withey - http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/40989/jeff-withey

Jared Berggren - http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/41154/jared-berggren

 

It's very possible for SV to follow up this year's lack of playing time with barely any this coming year AND become our defacto starting center for the next two years.

[NUdiehard]

 

 

 

I think not redshirting Vucetic is the best for Nebraska regardless of the outcome.  If he pans out great we still have 3 years with him and by 2016 I'd be hopeful TM has turned it around and can get a player of equal or better ability than SV was when he signed.  If he doesnt work out then it gives SV a chance to transfer and save a year wherever he goes.  I see it as a win win for bothparties.

I suppose if you tell yourself something enough times you can convince yourself of it even if it logically doesn't make sense. 

 

If Vooch had RS this year, he would still have 4 years of eligibility left.  Thus, even if he transferred after next year (or any other year) he would have EXACTLY the SAME amount of eligibility left as he does under the current arrangement where he preserved his RS. 

 

However, if Vooch stays, and if he improves, but not until his third year in the program, he will only have 2 years of productive service to this team, whereas if he had RS this year, he would have 3 years productive service to the team, including a 5th year RS Senior year which would be his BEST year of service, and better than any service he will be able to provide under the current arrangement (in which he will only be able to play through his 4th year b/c he will lose his eiligibiltiy after that 4th year).

 

Withey is a prime example of a big man who was terrible his first 2 years, but then blossomed and is now a key cog in a NCAA #1 seed at KU.  Let's just hypothetically say that Vooch turns out to be even a poor-man's Withey (which would be very, very good under NU standards) by his 4th year in the program.  Do you really think that Miles can just go and land a freshman big man at that point who will come in AS A  FRESHMAN and be as good or better than Vooch would be his 5th year as a RS Senior?  I think that is being wildly optimistic beyond reason.  The more rational approach would be to preserve the ability to retain Vooch for that 5th year of service when he will be at his PEAK strength and productiveness.  That is exactly the approach that a program like NU should be taking that is trying to find diamonds in the rough and hidden gems and develop them into players that can compete at a high level by their 4th and 5th years in the program.  Vooch gained absolutely nothing by playing 10 minutes this year that he couldn't have also gained by simply practicing with the team every day just as he did, whether he played those 10 minutes or not.  And if Vooch turns out to be a bust and it becomes obvious he will never be able to play at this level, Miles could help him find a new lower-level school, and as I said above, he would still have EXACTLY the same amount of eligility remaining at that new school.  There is no gain to him by saving the RS for the transfer process.

 

So you want to compare one of the nation best centers coming out of high school and Vooch?  He was the 36th best OVERALL player in the country.  He was EXPECTED to be good.  Come on now dont try and come with some ludicrous claims that Serge was ever expected to be that good.  Next youre going to tell me we need to give Benny Parker a break because one of the nations best point guards struggled early in his career so it means he should be able to do the same.

Ummmm, I didn't compare Vooch to anyone.  I just made a hypothetical.  And even in that hypothetical, I referred to the possibility that Vooch could become a hypothetical "poor-man's" Withey (which I still maintain would be very good for NU).

 

And what "expectations" a player has when he is signed or arrives on campus is irrelevant.  The only thing that matters is what a player is and what he can become.  Coaches bring in 5 stars who are busts all the time, and coaches bring in 2 stars who turn out to be All-conference players.  I am not saying Vooch is either one, I am just saying that either way, the logical choice would have been to RS him.

 

 

Whether Vooch turns out to be anywhere near as good as Withey is completely irrelevant to my point, which was that it doesn't matter whether Vooch is boom or bust, that it doesn't change the position that it would have been better to RS him this year.  I notice that you didn't even bother to address that issue.

 

I've already stated numerous times I was all for them to NOT redshirt him.  Basketball unlike any other sport you can easily turn your program around in a few short years, if not even one year.  With that being the case do you want to saddle yourself with someone who "might" pan out 4 years from now or have someone that can make an impact today that helps your recruiting tomorrow.  Nebraska needs players that can contribute now more than anything and if a player cannot there isnt a need to keep them around if you dont feel they can help your team in the next year.  Miles knows he needs to turn things much faster at a big time program than he did at any other school which is why you see him scouring every inch of the earth trying to find guys that can compete right now.  Once you get to a level of Kansas, when you can stockpile talent, then you can consider letting a guy redshirt but when youre 10th in the B1G changes need to happen now.

I give up.  I don't understand what any of that has to do with the choice to not RS Vooch this year.  As I have stated a hundred times, and as we all know, Miles can cut Vooch loose at any time whether he RS him or not this year if he doesn't want him "saddling" his program.  Oh well. 

 

And just for the record, I anticipate everyone will jump on me and say I am trying to knock on Miles, etc.  I am not doing that at all.  I like Miles and think he is doing a very good job.  I was very clear I thought Doc should go after year 5, let alone year 6, and I think Miles is a HUGE upgrade from Doc.

 

If season one under Miles was a game of poker, I look at the Vooch situation as just being one hand that was poorly played in a long day of play.  Everybody plays at least a few bad hands, but at the end of the day (or, in this case, the end of season 1), I think Miles is walking out of the room with a lot more chips than he came in with.  The Vooch situation is not a huge deal to me and will not make or break Miles or this program in any way, shape or form.  I am just calling it the way I see it.  I would hope even Miles could admit (If not publicly, at least privately), that he did not do everything perfect his first year.  That would be unreasonable, no one is perfect.  I am just discussing one particular aspect and I wouldn't even discuss it at all except that so many people seem to think it was the wise decision to not RS him and, for the life of me, and can't think of any logical explanation why. 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm trying to wrap my brain around NUdiehard's argument that it would have been better to redshirt whether he stays or goes.

 

I'm struck by the logic that it's easier for a player to justify sitting out as a transfer if he still has a redshirt year to use.  Sergej still does.  If he doesn't redshirt next year and hasn't developed to the point of getting minutes, then he still has an option to transfer without further burning playing years.

 

If he stays, I think it's better to redshirt right away if you're going to redshirt at all.  But if there's a possibility he goes, I don't get how he would have been better off burning his redshirt last year.

[Norm Peterson]

One thing I think I can say for certain:  If Vooch had redshirted this year, half the people on this board would be pencilling him in to start at center next season.  Not talking about him leaving.

 

We've all kind of been saying over the last several weeks (in reference to another player specifically) that bigs take longer to develop than guards and that they typically come in more raw.  And this is true.

 

However, Vooch's issue isn't simply being raw.  He has some skills, there's no doubt about it.  He's not a total stiff.  But, if there can be such a thing as a 236 pound weakling, Vooch is it.  He needs to gain a lot of weight and strength.  A lot.  A heckuva lot.  His lack of strength is going to impede his development.  

 

Don't know if he can fix the strength issue in one season.  Not sure what to expect from Vooch.  There's some potential there but he's got to hit the weight room like mad and eat every meal like it's his last.

[NUdiehard]

I'm trying to wrap my brain around NUdiehard's argument that it would have been better to redshirt whether he stays or goes.

 

I'm struck by the logic that it's easier for a player to justify sitting out as a transfer if he still has a redshirt year to use.  Sergej still does.  If he doesn't redshirt next year and hasn't developed to the point of getting minutes, then he still has an option to transfer without further burning playing years.

 

If he stays, I think it's better to redshirt right away if you're going to redshirt at all.  But if there's a possibility he goes, I don't get how he would have been better off burning his redshirt last year.

Just to clarify, if he goes, then I agree there is no benefit to either Vooch or NU.  But both Vooch and NU will be in the EXACT same position as they would have been had he RS his freshman year.  So, since he has not yet transferred, and since there is still the prospect that he could become a valuable member of the team, it still would have been better to RS him b/c if he develops and becomes productive and valuable, then he has an extra year, while if he doesn't develop and transfers, he is in the exact same position.   

 

By not RS this year, he has already "burned" a year of eligibility that he didn't have to "burn". Thus, that year is already gone. If he transfers, he will not have to "burn" another year, but he has already "burned" his one year, so he is in the exact same position he would have been had he RS this year.

[TheKamdyMan]

Nudiehard is making a good point that these 7ft kids getting barely any playing time their freshman/sophomore year is not a valid indicator of future success.

 

Wisconsin is the model of bringing in complete stiffs that transform into viable college centers.  Get ready for either 

Evan Anderson or Frank Kaminsky to "come out of nowhere" where "nowhere" has been Wisconsin developing them for the last 2-3 years.

 

Check out the Freshman/Sophomore year stats of Withey and Berggren.  They barely played. 

 

Jeff Withey - http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/40989/jeff-withey

Jared Berggren - http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/41154/jared-berggren

 

It's very possible for SV to follow up this year's lack of playing time with barely any this coming year AND become our defacto starting center for the next two years.

 

You also picked two teams that havent missed the tournament in many moons.  Like I said in my post those schools can stockpile recruits and build them for a couple years and then they come out of nowhere.  Nebraska doesnt have the luxury though to HOPE in 3 years they got the right guys that can finally produce some meaningful minutes in the paint.

 

Nebraska needs post players asap as we return Shields and Rivers as pseudo big men that played meaningful minutes which means we need guys that can step up next year and provide some help at least on the defensive end.

[Norm Peterson]

I'm trying to wrap my brain around NUdiehard's argument that it would have been better to redshirt whether he stays or goes.

 

I'm struck by the logic that it's easier for a player to justify sitting out as a transfer if he still has a redshirt year to use.  Sergej still does.  If he doesn't redshirt next year and hasn't developed to the point of getting minutes, then he still has an option to transfer without further burning playing years.

 

If he stays, I think it's better to redshirt right away if you're going to redshirt at all.  But if there's a possibility he goes, I don't get how he would have been better off burning his redshirt last year.

Just to clarify, if he goes, then I agree there is no benefit to either Vooch or NU.  But both Vooch and NU will be in the EXACT same position as they would have been had he RS his freshman year.  So, since he has not yet transferred, and since there is still the prospect that he could become a valuable member of the team, it still would have been better to RS him b/c if he develops and becomes productive and valuable, then he has an extra year, while if he doesn't develop and transfers, he is in the exact same position.   

 

By not RS this year, he has already "burned" a year of eligibility that he didn't have to "burn". Thus, that year is already gone. If he transfers, he will not have to "burn" another year, but he has already "burned" his one year, so he is in the exact same position he would have been had he RS this year.

I don't think that's true.  Not entirely.  Each succeeding year of playing eligibility has more value to the player.  If he had redshirted his first season, there would be a disincentive to transferring, which I believe was Kamdy's point.  

 

It goes like this:  Let's say that, particularly with a raw big man, he develops over time.  And let's say that the total development he experiences during his college career is 100%.  And let's further assume that the percentages of development for such a 5-year player go as follows:  1st year = 40%; 2nd year = 30%; 3rd year = 15%; 4th year = 10%; and 5th year = 5%, such that the last 5% of development occurs during the final season.  It stands to reason, then, that during that 5-year career, he'll be able to contribute the most during his final season and successively less in each preceding season.  

 

This would suggest that his 5th season would have the most value to him and the first season would have the least value, per what he would be able to contribute as a player.

 

NUdiehard is suggesting that, for a transfer, mathematically it makes no difference whether he redshirts in year 1 or year 4 because, either way, he still has 5 total years.  And that's true.  But that line of reasoning assumes that all years are equal and I don't think they are.

 

If a player reshirts his first season and then sits out as a transfer, he has lost a productive year.  And the longer he waits to transfer, the more of a productive season he will lose by transferring.  Wait too long and you take the option of spending a year in juco off the table.

 

Moreoever, if you save your redshirt for a possible transfer year, it allows you to get up-to-speed with your new coach's system while you're sitting out as a transfer.  (Think Walter Pitchford or Terran Petteway.)

 

I don't think there's any doubt that Sergej is better off saving his redshirt in the event a transfer becomes necessary.  

[hhcmatt]

You also picked two teams that havent missed the tournament in many moons.  Like I said in my post those schools can stockpile recruits and build them for a couple years and then they come out of nowhere.  Nebraska doesnt have the luxury though to HOPE in 3 years they got the right guys that can finally produce some meaningful minutes in the paint.

 

Nebraska needs post players asap as we return Shields and Rivers as pseudo big men that played meaningful minutes which means we need guys that can step up next year and provide some help at least on the defensive end.

The real question isn't whether or not SV will become a viable starter for us.

The real question is whether Tim Miles and Company can develop 6'9"+ kids?

Miles has lots of rebuilding success on his resume but none of it involves developing a big man for 4-5 years.

He passed on the JUCOs we had recruited and the JUCOs he could have recruited to bring in SV. That tells me they believe that they can develop big men/they believe this is the way to build a program.

How long will it take the staff to develop SV?

Will they ever?

At what point will they figure it out either way?

Would they be better bringing in big men JUCOs/transfers to fill the post?

[NUdiehard]

 

I'm trying to wrap my brain around NUdiehard's argument that it would have been better to redshirt whether he stays or goes.

 

I'm struck by the logic that it's easier for a player to justify sitting out as a transfer if he still has a redshirt year to use.  Sergej still does.  If he doesn't redshirt next year and hasn't developed to the point of getting minutes, then he still has an option to transfer without further burning playing years.

 

If he stays, I think it's better to redshirt right away if you're going to redshirt at all.  But if there's a possibility he goes, I don't get how he would have been better off burning his redshirt last year.

Just to clarify, if he goes, then I agree there is no benefit to either Vooch or NU.  But both Vooch and NU will be in the EXACT same position as they would have been had he RS his freshman year.  So, since he has not yet transferred, and since there is still the prospect that he could become a valuable member of the team, it still would have been better to RS him b/c if he develops and becomes productive and valuable, then he has an extra year, while if he doesn't develop and transfers, he is in the exact same position.   

 

By not RS this year, he has already "burned" a year of eligibility that he didn't have to "burn". Thus, that year is already gone. If he transfers, he will not have to "burn" another year, but he has already "burned" his one year, so he is in the exact same position he would have been had he RS this year.

I don't think that's true.  Not entirely.  Each succeeding year of playing eligibility has more value to the player.  If he had redshirted his first season, there would be a disincentive to transferring, which I believe was Kamdy's point.  

 

It goes like this:  Let's say that, particularly with a raw big man, he develops over time.  And let's say that the total development he experiences during his college career is 100%.  And let's further assume that the percentages of development for such a 5-year player go as follows:  1st year = 40%; 2nd year = 30%; 3rd year = 15%; 4th year = 10%; and 5th year = 5%, such that the last 5% of development occurs during the final season.  It stands to reason, then, that during that 5-year career, he'll be able to contribute the most during his final season and successively less in each preceding season.  

 

This would suggest that his 5th season would have the most value to him and the first season would have the least value, per what he would be able to contribute as a player.

 

NUdiehard is suggesting that, for a transfer, mathematically it makes no difference whether he redshirts in year 1 or year 4 because, either way, he still has 5 total years.  And that's true.  But that line of reasoning assumes that all years are equal and I don't think they are.

 

If a player reshirts his first season and then sits out as a transfer, he has lost a productive year.  And the longer he waits to transfer, the more of a productive season he will lose by transferring.  Wait too long and you take the option of spending a year in juco off the table.

 

Moreoever, if you save your redshirt for a possible transfer year, it allows you to get up-to-speed with your new coach's system while you're sitting out as a transfer.  (Think Walter Pitchford or Terran Petteway.)

 

I don't think there's any doubt that Sergej is better off saving his redshirt in the event a transfer becomes necessary.  

Holy cow!  Do you really believe all that mumbo jumbo or are you just trying to make this a 35 page thread?

 

First, let's just assume your initial premise is correct, that big men develop more in their first years and less in their later years.  That is debatable, but I will assume it correct for purposes of my response.  Second, let's also assume that big men have more value/production during their later years (ie, years 4 and 5 then 1 and 2), which I definitely think it true.  Even if all of this is true, it doesn't change a blasted think in regards to Vooch if he had RS this year. 

 

Since you mentioned Pitchford, let's use him as a prime example.  Last year, Pitchford played about 20 minutes total at Florida.  He was essentially a non-factor there.  If he had RS last year, he still would have "developed" just as much.  He still would have been able to practice under Donovan and gain his 40% of development.  And if he decided to transfer here, he still would be in the exact same position.  He would sit out a year, continue to develop (another 30% under your equation), and next year he would be a sophmore in eligibility.  In both scenerios, he would still have 3 years to play during his peak performance years and he would have 2 years that were completely unproductive.  It is the same thing.   

 

Now, just to further lay this out, let's say Vooch stays one more year, plays 6 minutes a game and averages 1.5pts/game in the process, and then transfers after next season.  He will go to a new team, sit out one year (his third year of "development") and have 2 more years of eligibility with his new team (his PEAK 2 years--years 4 and 5). 

 

Now let's change it to the hypothetical as if Vooch had RS this year.  Under that scenerio, if Vooch stayed one more year, played 6 minutes/game and averaged 1.5pts/game in the process (exactly the same), and then decided to transfer, the process would be EXACTLY THE SAME.   He will go to a new team, sit out one year (his third year of "development") and have 2 more years of eligibility with his new team (his PEAK 2 years--years 4 and 5).  It is exactly the same.  He will still play his 2 peak years, and he will still practice with his new team during his 3rd year of development, just the same. 

 

What you didn't calculate in your fancy little equation is the fact that this year, in his freshman year at NU, Vooch has a 0% production value for the season. That is my WHOLE point. He played a total of about 10 minutes, all of which were totally and completely meaningless. Yet, he "burned" an entire year of eligibility for those 10 meaninglyess minutes. There is no rational basis to suggest he is better off for doing that. Your little equation proves my entire point. If Vooch had RS this year, he would have RS during his LEAST productive year (which in this case was 0%). There is no way this can be a bad thing.

 

If Vooch had played meaningful and productive minutes, then you would be correct in what you are saying.  But that is my whole point.  He didn't, so he got no "value" from this year even though he burned a RS to do it.  For instance, in contrast, if BP should transfer, then I would agree that it was better for him to not RS this year.  He was able to get some legit playing time, some meaningful minutes, and meaningful experience that he can learn from and use to continue to develop.  But Vooch did not get that at all.  The very few minutes he played were all at the end of games when the outcome was decided and usually against the other teams walk-ons.  Nothing he couldn't get in practice.  It did not provide him additional preparation for future development.

 

What it did do, though, is burn a year of eligibility.  If Vooch decides to stay (and if Miles wants him to stay), then Vooch unnecessarily burned a RS year for nothing.  Again, in contrast, BP did not waste a RS year for nothing, he got something from it, so an argument can be made in BP's case.  But not for Vooch.  He lost a year of eligibility for nothing and if he stays, and if he develops into a productive and valuable big, then he will lose his MOST valuable year (his 5th year) because he burned that year for a nothing year. 

[Silverbacked1]

Hey I'm just glad that Benny will be staying. :mellow:

[TheKamdyMan]

They are exactly the same thing in one respect youre correct but in another its a huge difference.  If you redshirt him that means you have no intention of even testing him by throwing him out and, like Norm stated, you feel this year with his RS year under his belt should be able to produce but is untested.  If you played him, even for the 10 minutes, you at least knew he could be played but you felt so insecure with him on the floor you didnt play him.  As a coach, though a different sport, I would rather like scenario two then there's no questioning whether or not he could've played that first year and would it have helped him had he struggled his rs freshman year.  Now as a sophomore if he struggles you know it was probably the best decision for him and he still has the transfer year available irregardless to go elsewhere.

[NUdiehard]

They are exactly the same thing in one respect youre correct but in another its a huge difference.  If you redshirt him that means you have no intention of even testing him by throwing him out and, like Norm stated, you feel this year with his RS year under his belt should be able to produce but is untested.  If you played him, even for the 10 minutes, you at least knew he could be played but you felt so insecure with him on the floor you didnt play him.  As a coach, though a different sport, I would rather like scenario two then there's no questioning whether or not he could've played that first year and would it have helped him had he struggled his rs freshman year.  Now as a sophomore if he struggles you know it was probably the best decision for him and he still has the transfer year available irregardless to go elsewhere.

Kamdy, in general I would agree with you, but not in Vooch's case.  Again, let's contrast Vooch with BP.  Miles played BP in real legit minutes in real games that matterered.  Thus, Miles was able to "evaluate" just how BP stands up against Div 1 and even B1G competition, thus using that as a basis to evaluate where BP might fit into future plans.  Although it is still debatable whether it is worth buring a RS year for that, there certainly is an argument either way.  In fact, I have absolutely no problem with Miles choice to not RS BP this year.

 

However, this is in stark contrast to Vooch.  Miles did not even play Vooch until something like the 4th or 5th game, and he did not put Vooch into the game until the last minute or 2.  The game was not in question, and both teams were clearing their benches.  Miles was not able to make any meaningful evaluation from that 1 minute of meaningless play that he couldn't make from practice time.  Then, if my memory serves me correct, Vooch did not play at all for a number of games afte after that.  And in the very few games that Vooch did play, they were all just 1 or 2 minutes at the end of the game when the game was no longer in question and the other team had cleared its bench.  Vooch wasn't even playing against other legit Div. 1 or B1G players, he was playing against walk-ons for a couple minutes.  There was nothing in those minutes that Miles could use to "evaluate" whether Vooch had potential to develop, etc.  Again, that is my whole point.  If Miles purpose was to play Vooch to "evaluate" him, then he should have played him at least a few minutes in the meat of the game against the othet teams starters, etc.  We had a number of blow out games that Vooch could have come in much earlier, but Miles never put him in.  He put in Tyrance, and even Menke, but not Vooch. Thus, there simply was nothing gained by inserting him for those 10 meaningless minutes at the end of games against the other team's walk-ons.  I don't see how it can be argued that, under those circumstances, it would have been better to RS him.   Nothing was gained by playing him, but an entire year of eligibility was lost by playing him.  

[Hooper]

Guys, I know the staff says publicly that they still believe in Vooch and feel he can develop into a good player in time. I happen to believe that they probably say otherwise privately.

 

I believe they wanted to get his clock started and leave him a RS year to use after a future transfer.

 

If Sergej Vucetic is on Nebraska's roster for the 2014-2015 season, I'll be shocked. He may not even be on next year's roster.

[Norm Peterson]

Well, considering they're hot after 3 bigs, I don't see how anyone would draw the conclusion that Benny Parker is the odd man out.  But I read that somewhere this evening -- I think by one of the commenters on Rosenthal's twitter feed.  

[Norm Peterson]

Holy cow!  Do you really believe all that mumbo jumbo or are you just trying to make this a 35 page thread?

No, I figured I'd let you take care of that.

[Blindcheck]

_{I think that Vooch will Red shirt next year.,...I think Miles knew he needed to add strength and it was going to be a two year process with him...}

 

_{I think that him realizing that he wasn't getting minutes this year, showed him that he needs to hit the weight room and add strength....}

 

_{Had he redshirted this year, who knows if he comes to the same realization.}

 

_{Of course, I could be wrong and Vooch will announce his transfer tomorrow.}

[Cookie Belcher]

_{I think that Vooch will Red shirt next year.,...I think Miles knew he needed to add strength and it was going to be a two year process with him...}

 

_{I think that him realizing that he wasn't getting minutes this year, showed him that he needs to hit the weight room and add strength....}

 

_{Had he redshirted this year, who knows if he comes to the same realization.}

 

_{Of course, I could be wrong and Vooch will announce his transfer tomorrow.}

If he is going to redshirt next year, he might as well just leave the team now and free up another spot in next year's class.

[Blindcheck]

I disagree... I think if you bring in a guy like Vooch, you know he is a 2 or 3 year project...and you need those type of kids on your roster, especially at Nebraska....because year 4 and 5 might end up getting a guy that would never consider you if he was that good at year 1.

 

It really does not matter if you redshirt him in year 1 or year 2, if he is 2 or 3 year project guy...and I think Miles had him play some this year telling him, that he might get more minutes if an injury were to occur to Alemida and ubel, than he might get next year....

 

who Knows...but projects are a big part of what will Make Nebraska a winner, because if we are generally not going to get guys that are as ready to play in year 1 as Ohio State, Indiana, Michigan and Michigan State.

[Norm Peterson]

Bigs take longer to develop.  Especially pencil-thin, skinny, tall guys who won't really qualify as "big" until they gain another 25 pounds.  To be fair, Vooch has some skills.  He's not totally worthless.  But, he's a long way from being ready to contribute.  I cannot honestly say whether I think he'll get there or not.  He might.  He showed some interesting flashes at times this year.  In warmups, he clearly showed he could hit shots.  But he has a long way to go to build up the strength and get, y'know, acclimated to the way the American game is played.  If he can get there, terrific, because you can't coach 7'1".  But, it's going to be a process and it sure would be nice if could redshirt to give himself an opportunity to develop.  I have to believe there are players out there who will get game-ready sooner ...

[Silverbacked1]

I want to revisit some of these threads either later this summer or a year from now to see what really happened.

[AuroranHusker]

I want to revisit some of these threads either later this summer or a year from now to see what really happened.

 

It will be an interesting case study in perspectives and reactions.  The Case for Vucetic, if you will.

[Huskerpapa]

Has anyone heard whether or not Serj is a workout beast?  If he is to develop he needs the work ethic to do so.  That may play a role in whether or not he can develop and whether he stays or goes.  I guess we will know the answers to our myriad of questions within the next several weeks.

[MandRHusker]

Has anyone heard whether or not Serj is a workout beast?  If he is to develop he needs the work ethic to do so.  That may play a role in whether or not he can develop and whether he stays or goes.  I guess we will know the answers to our myriad of questions within the next several weeks.

I remember reading a quote from Brandon Ubel about how hard Serj was working in the weight room.

[NUdiehard]

Sai Tummala is a prime example of a player who redshirted his freshman year and it was a significant benefit to him even though he elected to transfer from that school.  Sai initially went to Michigan as a freshman.  He did not play and therefore was a RS his freshman year.  After his freshman RS season, he elected to transfer and he decided to transfer to a junior college.  At the junior college, he was able to play an entire season and get exposure to Div. 1 programs and open up his recruitment.  He lost a year of eligibility to play in juco, but since he RS his freshman year at Mich, he is still has THREE years of eligibility left to play at a major Div. 1 program.  This is a HUGE benefit to Sai.  Had his coach at Mich elected to play him for a few minutes at the end of games during his freshman year, whether to allegedly "evaluate" him or allegedly to "preserve his RS for a transfer", it would have been a significant detriment to Sai because Sai would have lost that year of eligibility, plus another year of eligibility at juco, and thus would only have 2 years of eligibility remaining. 

 

What if Vooch decides it is not working out at NU and that he wants to go to a junior college and play one season to try and get some playing time and exposure so that he can go to a different team.  If he does that, he will lose another year of eligibility, and thus only have 2 years of eligiblity remaining.  He will have 3 years to play those 2 years  (a 3 for 2 guy), but it would be MUCH better for him to be a 3 for 3 guy coming out of juco than a 3 for 2 guy. 

[TheKamdyMan]

Sai Tummala is a prime example of a player who redshirted his freshman year and it was a significant benefit to him even though he elected to transfer from that school.  Sai initially went to Michigan as a freshman.  He did not play and therefore was a RS his freshman year.  After his freshman RS season, he elected to transfer and he decided to transfer to a junior college.  At the junior college, he was able to play an entire season and get exposure to Div. 1 programs and open up his recruitment.  He lost a year of eligibility to play in juco, but since he RS his freshman year at Mich, he is still has THREE years of eligibility left to play at a major Div. 1 program.  This is a HUGE benefit to Sai.  Had his coach at Mich elected to play him for a few minutes at the end of games during his freshman year, whether to allegedly "evaluate" him or allegedly to "preserve his RS for a transfer", it would have been a significant detriment to Sai because Sai would have lost that year of eligibility, plus another year of eligibility at juco, and thus would only have 2 years of eligibility remaining. 

 

What if Vooch decides it is not working out at NU and that he wants to go to a junior college and play one season to try and get some playing time and exposure so that he can go to a different team.  If he does that, he will lose another year of eligibility, and thus only have 2 years of eligiblity remaining.  He will have 3 years to play those 2 years  (a 3 for 2 guy), but it would be MUCH better for him to be a 3 for 3 guy coming out of juco than a 3 for 2 guy. 

 

He was a walk-on!!!!  How many walk-ons are contributing in their freshman seasons at prestigious basketball schools?  Of course he redshirted because there was no chance in hell for him to see the floor.  Come on now lets not get carried away.  Next youre going to tell me something about Benny Parker.