Some recruiting choices for the next couple of years: A poll

[Norm Peterson]

I've been preaching that I think we could find better players in the fall than what players might stil be available to fill out the 2013 class and that we should therefore save those last two spots so that we have 3 'ships available to use for 2014.  Thinking more about it, though, I'm not so sure that's the best idea and I'm curious what the collective brain trust around here thinks.

[Huskerpapa]

Kind of a tough one Norm.  I do think the two bigs that we allegedly are looking at (Thomas & Atewa) both look athletic and could be good fits.  I simply do not want us to settle...I want us to recruit and get good players who will fit and will play.  I do not want to bring in projects that MAY fit in the future.  Is that asking too much?

[Norm Peterson]

I added another response for you, CWG, if that helps.

 

Previously, I had been preaching that there will be better players and more of them available for us to go after next year and we should just save the last two spots to add to that next class and make 2014 a 3 member class rather than using the spots on what's left in 2013. 

 

The more I think about it, though, the more I question that strategy.  The last Husker team that the 2014 recruits will see who sign in the fall is this team this year, which is likely going to finish 11th in the league.

 

If we don't sign a couple more bigs in this class, we might not be much more competitive next year than we are this year.  But if we sign a couple of bigs yet this year, it might very well make us a better team next year.  And if we make a jump in the B1G next year, we could potentially make a favorable impression on the 2015 recruits for whom, as of now, we'll have 3 spots to offer.

 

If we bring in two more players, probably both bigs, and even one of them is good enough to start next year, that would, I would think, give us a stronger appeal for 2015.

 

So, looking long range, I'm rethinking my position.  I'm thinking it might be better to shore up the front line of the roster now with 2013 recruits, play for a better season next year, and make 2015 the class we hope to really make an impression on.

 

Thoughts?

[colhusker]

Agree with CWG, I hope Miles doesn't settle, we've done that to often over the past 12 years, but we need a big.  If there is one that can help even if a bit of a reach I would take one and save the second ship.

[PAhusker]

saving one for okafor

[trickey]

Norm, I will repeat part of a quote I made to your post several weeks ago that turned to whether some of the the incoming recruits would redshirt. I think the same thought process still applies to the remaining scholarships and using them now as it did to redshirting.

 

"It is very important to take several significant steps forward next year. Use the tools you have to insure it happens. Spending their year in '13-'14 will insure better recruiting in the future. Even high school players  can give Miles a pass this year. A tremendous leap next year propels interest much more than winning a few more games while getting better. We can/will have that opportunity, but coach has to make it happen. A large leap makes the likelihood of future leaps (recruiting successes) much more likely.

In a business model analogy, you have to spend your marketing resources in order to sell your products in the future. The redshirts, recruiting class and the several leftovers are those resources. Use them. Get better. The time to sell is now."

 

Sorry to make you listen to my spiel twice...but I think next year's success is the most important element in the long term success of Miles' coaching tenure at NU.Hold nothing back that will cost you games in 2014. If a player will be in the top 8 to 10 and play significant minutes of the team rotation when it matters...Then bring him in. If he is a future project save the scholarship. We are going to have to trust TM on this one.

[huskerbaseball13]

Atewe and Thomas look like prospects who could help us out.  If we fail to land those two I say we sit on the schollie's for future classes.  Atewe is raw but I think he could help out next year on the defensive end and eat up some minutes.  Thomas who is someone I think who can come in right away and compete. 

[Norm Peterson]

Trickey, that may have been the post that caused me to reconsider my position.  I think what you say has some merit.  A big step forward next season will make an impression on the 2015 class of recruits that we won't be able to make on the 2014 class.  The 2014 class sees what we're like THIS year.  If they're jucos (which Miles is going to try not to depend on) they might see this Husker team and think it would be an opportunity to get significant playing time right away.  But 2014 HS kids will just see Huskers finishing near the bottom of the league.  Again.  And they'll have to have a certain amount of faith that Miles is going to move things forward.

 

So if we pull out all the stops and treat next season as a sort of do or die year -- and use both remaining scholarships for this class -- there's a chance we'll make a significant jump from year one to year two of Miles.  That might give us a better chance of landing elite 2015 players than what we realistically have of landing elite 2014 players.  And, if one of the guys we sign this year is a juco player, that will give us a 4th spot to recruit for in the 2015 class.

[Norm Peterson]

Looking at Thomas's film, I'd say he certainly looks like a kid who could contribute right away.  And Atewe is such a physically impressive individual that I think they both would be good candidates to fill out this class.  But, regardless, I'd like to find someone who can come in and be a starter in the post for us next year.  Try to acheive as much improvement from year one to year two that we can.  That would establish that we're legitimately moving up and go a long way toward establishing inroads with the 2015 class.

[FredsSlacks]

The problem with waiting to try and get more talented big men next year is that Miles struck out on nearly 10 big men this year, so why would that not happen next year? There is going to have to be some success on the court before recruiting can really pick up. The good thing is that we have enough wings and guards to last us the next couple years, so Miles can focus on getting talented big men. I would also be pretty concerned if atewe, vucetic, and pitchford were my 3 big men for next year. I think you have to get a juco/transfer that has some experience.

[Norm Peterson]

I don't know that we struck out on 10.  That's a bit of an exaggeration.  We were lucky to get a visit from Vitto Brown but he was all but committed to Wisconsin at the time he came for his visit here.  I'd have a hard time calling that one a whiff.  And we came in 2nd in the Akoy Agau sweepstakes after putting a lot of eggs in that particular basket.  But that happens when you go head-to-head with Louisville for a recruit.  We missed on the kid who went to Creighton.  But I think the next couple of bigs on our list are still there and we're waiting for them to make a decision.

[hhcdave]

I think we have to remember that its just the nature of college basketball that at least one player per season transfers or is "forced out".

 

This happens everywhere around the country and has happened under our last three coaches a number of times.

Thus, I say we get both bigs NOW, leaving us with (in theory) zero 'ships next year. However, I imagine one player after this year will transfer/be kicked off and another after next year, meaning we should still be able to go after two players next year, too.

[FredsSlacks]

vitto, foster, agau, hanson, soma edo, tory miller sort of. Those are 6 big men off the top of my head we missed out on. I know there's more.

[Norm Peterson]

I'll give you Brown and Agau.  I'm not sure we ever gave Tory Miller a commitable offer and he's reclassified to 2014, so we didn't really lose him to another program.  Hanson, yes.  We lost him to Creighton.  And Foster had an offer but I don't think ever visited, so I'm not sure how seriously we were involved in him.  Soma Edo I don't think was someone we ever really had a shot at.  To say we "struck out" on guys like Foster, Brown and Edo is, I think, misleading.  I don't think there's anything wrong with casting a wide net. 

 

And, for the 2013 class, Miles really wouldn't have had the chance to develop relationships with those players for a full recruiting cycle.  By the time we got Vitto Brown on campus for a visit, he was already a heavy Wisconsin lean. 

 

In other words, I don't think you can judge next season's likelihood of success in recruiting next year by looking at what happened this year.  It's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

[Creighton Fan]

At the risk of having someone get mad because a Creighton fan answered, here's what I think:

 

1) I just don't see the value in carrying over more than one scholarship, unless you've got a verbal for the next year already to use the extra(s) you are carrying over.  If there are two available now, and I'll take Norm's word that there are, you fill at least one with the best player you can get every single year.

 

2)  When you have some positional gaps, I think you use the scholarship to fill those gaps the best that you can.  If the "fill" doesn't work out, he can always transfer out after the next season.  Big 10 is a physical league and you have to have bodies, plain and simple.  As you guys have seen this year, guys are gonna get hurt and you have to have some sort of back-up plan.

 

I like Norm's idea of trying to do whatever you can to win more games next season.  That may help to create or sustain a positive momentum going forward, but I admit that I have no idea if this really helps with recruiting or not.  I don't know much about recruiting and, outside of the one and done guys, it always seems like a crap shoot to me.  I've personally always thought that if you can't get one and done guys, talent development is much more important than the number of stars a guy has when he signs. 

[FredsSlacks]

There's no way to predict what's going to happen. Too many variables:

-What are Parker, Rivers, and Vucetic plan at the end of the season?

-Will Miles try to force any of them out?

-Will Atewe commit?

-Are we going to offer Atewe and Thomas or wait to see what atewe's decision is before offering thomas?

-Does Miles think he can find a transfer at the end of the season?

 

The only hope I have is that we bring in a big man who can play close to starters minutes next year if needed. NU is one starting big man away from having a very talented team the next couple years. I hate to dwell on it, but Agau would of been a perfect add to this recruiting class.

[colhusker]

Why would he force Rivers out?

[Norm Peterson]

Why would he force Rivers out?

I'm not sure we're in a position to force anyone out right now.  We're apparently skating on thin ice when it comes to our APR.  That's what Ass't Coach Australian Guy said at the last meet and greet thing.  So, I think they're going to be very patient with Vucetic.

 

At that meet and greet, ACAG said that we're looking for recruits we can count on to stay.  We're being selective.  Not just the type of player but the type of person because, due to APR issues, we're in a position where we need to avoid premature turnover (que Cip double entendre/dirty joke) or we could lose post-season or scholarships or something.

 

That's one of the reasons I said in the poll that you aren't permitted to assume, for purposes of the poll, that anyone leaves before they exhaust eligibility.

 

So, anyway, we're looking for guys who are going to stick around and guys who we think we can develop. And, BTW, they were very complimentary of Sergej.  ACAG said very specifically that they like Segej -- who didn't want to redshirt -- and they think he'll be good.  But it takes European bigs awhile to develop and make the transition to American ball and they're willing to be patient with him.

 

Anyway.  With that APR thing, it's fortunate for us that we don't have any NBA types looking to leave after their sophomore year or something. 

[FredsSlacks]

Ok then. let's just get atewe and thomas and start playing some bball.

[trickey]

Norm stated..."With that APR thing, it's fortunate for us that we don't have any NBA types looking to leave after their sophomore year or something."

 

I have to agree with you, Norm, as I sure would hate to go through March Madness with 4 or 5 guys I believed would up and leave after the tournament run.

I felt so sorry for Kentucky last year...the separation pains they must have endured had to have been unbearable!

[nebrasketball10]

Why force us to assume no attrition? When was the last time we didn't have ANY attrition? I don't think assuming no attrition is a very likely scenario.

[Norm Peterson]

I explained the no attrition part somewhere.  It's because, at the last meet and greet thing, Assistant Coach Australian Guy (ACAG) said basically that the former staff left them in a precarious spot with the APR and that we were at risk of losing either post season or scholarships or whatever.  He was pretty insistent, as I recall, that Sergej, for example, is in their long term plans.  He was asked point blank if they were looking to find bigs to replace Sergej and he flat denied it.  Then what about a redshirt?  And he said Sergej didn't want one.

 

He went to pains to explain that they're looking for guys who will stick around and develop and so when they're out recruiting, they're not just looking for a certain type of player.  They're looking for a certain type of person.  I think that's almost a direct quote from ACAG.

 

So, the "no attrition" thing wasn't just an arbitrary rule I imposed on this poll.  There was a reason for it.  Now, people may disagree with the reason but it wasn't something I pulled out of thin air.

[nebrasketball10]

I understand - and that's good info that clears the Sergej redshirt question up. But it's not always up to the coaches if a player wants to transfer. I would be very surprised if we didn't have SOME attrition before the 2014 class. I'd have to go back and look to remember the last time we didn't have any...

[HuskerFever]

We need to find a good balance between the short term and long term. It makes sense to wait for better prospects down the road to use your scholarships on, but at the same time there is a very small window of error that we have with the facilities and hype of the program before the program starts to become old news to the public again. Winning is more important than talent right now. Although they can go hand-in-hand, we need to find a way to win even with the absence of talent we have now.

[Norm Peterson]

I understand - and that's good info that clears the Sergej redshirt question up. But it's not always up to the coaches if a player wants to transfer. I would be very surprised if we didn't have SOME attrition before the 2014 class. I'd have to go back and look to remember the last time we didn't have any...

Generally speaking, over the past 5 years, people blamed Doc for premature attrition, not player choice.  That may be accurate and it might not be.  I don't know.  But anytime the subject of player turnover came up, there were plenty of people who said that Doc kept pushing people out rather than developing them.  That he'd miss on a recruit and push them out the door.  That kind of thing.

 

My perception of this staff, from what was said at that meet and greet, is that they don't have the luxury of doing that even if they wanted to.  Now, between now and the 2014 recruiting class early signing period (this coming November) there just aren't a lot of guys who might transfer of their own volition.  Where's Ray Gallegos going?  Anywhere?  Not likely.  Nor Shields, nor Rivers, nor any of the three guys sitting out right now as transfers.

 

That leaves Benny and Sergej.  ACAG said very clearly the coaches are behind Sergej, like his upside, and think he'll develop.  Sergej isn't getting pushed out any doors.  Will Benny depart on his own?  Maybe if he thinks that there will be too much competition for minutes at point guard.  But, again, he won't get pushed out the door.

 

I might have thought Sergej would be a guy that they might tell to look for places where he'd be a better fit.  But the ACAG said the APR puts us in a position where we really can't have much turnover, if at all.