OK, Let's Talk Basketball

[Dead Dog Alley]

8 hours ago, Blindcheck said:

I was very optimistic going into 2000-2001 season...For some reason, I thought we had a heck of a line-up of Belcher, Cochran, Bradford, Ffriend.

 

Now looking back at that roster, I have no idea why I was optimstic at all.

 

You should have been optimistic with that roster.

 

You should not have been optimistic with that coaching staff.

 

Collier threw away any chance of success the first season, implementing a "system" that didn't fit a bunch of players who were seniors anyway (why worry about them playing your system when they're gone the next year anyway?), and by having the weakest recruiting class imaginable.  That season was easily the worst coaching performance at Nebraska in the last 50 years.

 

[Dead Dog Alley]

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the 2013-14 roster with this year's roster, trying to match the players with the most similar roles.

Jordy Tshimanga        6-11  275  So.         Leslee Smith           6-8   255  Jr. Isaac Copeland         6-9   220  Jr.         Walter Pitchford       6-10  235  So. Duby Okeke             6-8   230  Sr.         Sergej Vucetic         7-1   240  So. Tanner Borchardt       6-8   275  Jr.         Kye Kurkowski          6-11  215  Jr.   James Palmer           6-6   215  Jr.         Terran Petteway        6-6   210  So. Isaiah Roby            6-8   215  So.         Shavon Shields         6-7   220  So. Jack McVeigh           6-8   215  Jr.         David Rivers           6-7   200  Jr.   Nana Akenten           6-6   210  Fr.         Nathan Hawkins         6-5   200  Fr. Thorir Thorbjarnarson  6-5   180  Fr.         Nick Fuller            6-6   200  Fr.   Glynn Watson           6-0   175  Jr.         Ray Gallegos           6-2   180  Sr. Thomas Allen           6-1   180  Fr.         Tai Webster            6-4   195  Fr. Evan Taylor            6-5   205  Sr.         Benny Parker           5-9   165  So. Anton Gill             6-3   195  Sr.         Deverell Biggs         6-0   175  Jr. Johnny Trueblood       6-4   195  So.         Mike Peltz             6-2   200  Sr. Justin Costello        6-1   180  Fr.         Trevor Menke           5-11  185  Jr. Malcolm Laws           6-1   190  Jr.         Tim Wagner             6-3   190  Fr.

[49r]

2017

Sr. - 3

Jr. - 5

So. - 3

Fr. - 4

 

2014

Sr. - 2

Jr. - 5

So. - 5

Fr. - 4

[OmahaHusker]

1 hour ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the 2013-14 roster with this year's roster, trying to match the players with the most similar roles.

Jordy Tshimanga        6-11  275  So.         Leslee Smith           6-8   255  Jr. Isaac Copeland         6-9   220  Jr.         Walter Pitchford       6-10  235  So. Duby Okeke             6-8   230  Sr.         Sergej Vucetic         7-1   240  So. Tanner Borchardt       6-8   275  Jr.         Kye Kurkowski          6-11  215  Jr.   James Palmer           6-6   215  Jr.         Terran Petteway        6-6   210  So. Isaiah Roby            6-8   215  So.         Shavon Shields         6-7   220  So. Jack McVeigh           6-8   215  Jr.         David Rivers           6-7   200  Jr.   Nana Akenten           6-6   210  Fr.         Nathan Hawkins         6-5   200  Fr. Thorir Thorbjarnarson  6-5   180  Fr.         Nick Fuller            6-6   200  Fr.   Glynn Watson           6-0   175  Jr.         Ray Gallegos           6-2   180  Sr. Thomas Allen           6-1   180  Fr.         Tai Webster            6-4   195  Fr. Evan Taylor            6-5   205  Sr.         Benny Parker           5-9   165  So. Anton Gill             6-3   195  Sr.         Deverell Biggs         6-0   175  Jr. Johnny Trueblood       6-4   195  So.         Mike Peltz             6-2   200  Sr. Justin Costello        6-1   180  Fr.         Trevor Menke           5-11  185  Jr. Malcolm Laws           6-1   190  Jr.         Tim Wagner             6-3   190  Fr.

 

Thanks for this. This is a really interesting perspective to look at it side by side. A lot more similarities than I thought initially between this team and the 13-14 team. Hopefully it yields similar results.

 

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the 2013-14 roster with this year's roster, trying to match the players with the most similar roles.

Jordy Tshimanga        6-11  275  So.    >     Leslee Smith           6-8   255  Jr. Isaac Copeland         6-9   220  Jr.    >>    Walter Pitchford       6-10  235  So. Duby Okeke             6-8   230  Sr.    >>>   Sergej Vucetic         7-1   240  So. Tanner Borchardt       6-8   275  Jr.    =     Kye Kurkowski          6-11  215  Jr.   James Palmer           6-6   215  Jr.    <     Terran Petteway        6-6   210  So. Isaiah Roby            6-8   215  So.    =     Shavon Shields         6-7   220  So. Jack McVeigh           6-8   215  Jr.    >     David Rivers           6-7   200  Jr.   Nana Akenten           6-6   210  Fr.    >>    Nathan Hawkins         6-5   200  Fr. Thorir Thorbjarnarson  6-5   180  Fr.    >>    Nick Fuller            6-6   200  Fr.   Glynn Watson           6-0   175  Jr.    >>    Ray Gallegos           6-2   180  Sr. Thomas Allen           6-1   180  Fr.    >     Tai Webster            6-4   195  Fr. Evan Taylor            6-5   205  Sr.    >     Benny Parker           5-9   165  So. Anton Gill             6-3   195  Sr.    >     Deverell Biggs         6-0   175  Jr. Johnny Trueblood       6-4   195  So.    <     Mike Peltz             6-2   200  Sr. Justin Costello        6-1   180  Fr.    <     Trevor Menke           5-11  185  Jr. Malcolm Laws           6-1   190  Jr.    NA    Tim Wagner             6-3   190  Fr.

 

My estimation of which player is/was better and roughly by how much.

 

So, Jordy is greater than Leslee, but maybe not by a lot.  I'm guessing Duby will be a boatload better than Sergej was.

 

Tim Wagner was injured that year, so there's really no comparison. 

 

And comparing walkon to walkon probably doesn't mean much anyway.  So, saying Menke was better was really just throwing a bone to @atskooc

[Norm Peterson]

2 hours ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

You should have been optimistic with that roster.

 

You should not have been optimistic with that coaching staff.

 

Collier threw away any chance of success the first season, implementing a "system" that didn't fit a bunch of players who were seniors anyway (why worry about them playing your system when they're gone the next year anyway?), and by having the weakest recruiting class imaginable.  That season was easily the worst coaching performance at Nebraska in the last 50 years.

 

 

You forgot to mention how Collier chased off Louis Truscott.

 

I still am blown away by how bad that recruiting class was.

 

When Danny recruited jucos, we were used to seeing them be juco All-Americans, 1st or 2nd team.  Collier's first group, which consisted of 4 guys, was not mid-major material let alone P5 material.  Danai Young and Kedrick Ford were like 3rd team all-Jayhawk Conference or something like that.  Justin Boeker I don't think made any all-Anything teams.  And Marques McCarty ... well, he was an under-the-radar freshman who was under the radar for a reason.

 

Danai Young never played for us.  Justin Boeker rarely played in his two seasons.  Kedrick Ford was never more than a backup.  And Marques McCarty took a medical hardship so he could keep his scholarship and just not play basketball, which freed up the scholarship for Collier to use on someone else.  And I always wondered whether that was really Barry's call in order to get the 'ship back rather than McCarty deciding his knees were too bad to play.

 

And Collier was hired in March and had all summer to try to find some players somewhere.

 

Collier's late signees were nearly always terrible with the lone exception of Jay-R Strowbridge.

 

James Reynolds was bad and run off after a year; Suan Stegall was bad and run off after a year; and I've already gone over who Collier brought in for his first class.  Ugh.  We've come a long way since those dark days.

[Fullbacksympathy]

3 hours ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the 2013-14 roster with this year's roster, trying to match the players with the most similar roles.

Jordy Tshimanga        6-11  275  So.         Leslee Smith           6-8   255  Jr. Isaac Copeland         6-9   220  Jr.         Walter Pitchford       6-10  235  So. Duby Okeke             6-8   230  Sr.         Sergej Vucetic         7-1   240  So. Tanner Borchardt       6-8   275  Jr.         Kye Kurkowski          6-11  215  Jr.   James Palmer           6-6   215  Jr.         Terran Petteway        6-6   210  So. Isaiah Roby            6-8   215  So.         Shavon Shields         6-7   220  So. Jack McVeigh           6-8   215  Jr.         David Rivers           6-7   200  Jr.   Nana Akenten           6-6   210  Fr.         Nathan Hawkins         6-5   200  Fr. Thorir Thorbjarnarson  6-5   180  Fr.         Nick Fuller            6-6   200  Fr.   Glynn Watson           6-0   175  Jr.         Ray Gallegos           6-2   180  Sr. Thomas Allen           6-1   180  Fr.         Tai Webster            6-4   195  Fr. Evan Taylor            6-5   205  Sr.         Benny Parker           5-9   165  So. Anton Gill             6-3   195  Sr.         Deverell Biggs         6-0   175  Jr. Johnny Trueblood       6-4   195  So.         Mike Peltz             6-2   200  Sr. Justin Costello        6-1   180  Fr.         Trevor Menke           5-11  185  Jr. Malcolm Laws           6-1   190  Jr.         Tim Wagner             6-3   190  Fr.

 

Almost every player on the left is a better/more consistent player than the right.  The leg up on the right is that you have several players who can take over games by heating up--particularly Petteway, Shields, and Pitchford.  Watson is definitely a guy on the left that can do this.  I think the team on the right is more prone to causing upsets, but also losing to bad teams.  I think the team on the left will have less bad losses and less surprising wins.  

 

In a head to head matchup though?  I think the left wins 6/10.  

[rwhiston]

I think this team is definitely one of the more intriguing ones we have had heading into the season. I think the word that best describes this team this offseason is potential. As MJ would say "The ceiling is the roof". But there are so many unknowns right now which is very similar to the 13-14 squad. I think the thing I'm the most interested in is seeing if the returning members from last year's team were able to make positive strides this offseason. By all accounts it has been a great summer for workouts and practice, but I think this season is dependent on whether or not Jordy and Isaiah particularly make a big leap in their play. It's possible this could be one of the deepest teams Nebraska has had in a while, hopefully the potential comes together. 

[uneblinstu]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

You forgot to mention how Collier chased off Louis Truscott.

 

I still am blown away by how bad that recruiting class was.

 

When Danny recruited jucos, we were used to seeing them be juco All-Americans, 1st or 2nd team.  Collier's first group, which consisted of 4 guys, was not mid-major material let alone P5 material.  Danai Young and Kedrick Ford were like 3rd team all-Jayhawk Conference or something like that.  Justin Boeker I don't think made any all-Anything teams.  And Marques McCarty ... well, he was an under-the-radar freshman who was under the radar for a reason.

 

Danai Young never played for us.  Justin Boeker rarely played in his two seasons.  Kedrick Ford was never more than a backup.  And Marques McCarty took a medical hardship so he could keep his scholarship and just not play basketball, which freed up the scholarship for Collier to use on someone else.  And I always wondered whether that was really Barry's call in order to get the 'ship back rather than McCarty deciding his knees were too bad to play.

 

And Collier was hired in March and had all summer to try to find some players somewhere.

 

Collier's late signees were nearly always terrible with the lone exception of Jay-R Strowbridge.

 

James Reynolds was bad and run off after a year; Suan Stegall was bad and run off after a year; and I've already gone over who Collier brought in for his first class.  Ugh.  We've come a long way since those dark days.

...oof... That was rough.

[HB]

4 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

You forgot to mention how Collier chased off Louis Truscott.

 

I still am blown away by how bad that recruiting class was.

 

When Danny recruited jucos, we were used to seeing them be juco All-Americans, 1st or 2nd team.  Collier's first group, which consisted of 4 guys, was not mid-major material let alone P5 material.  Danai Young and Kedrick Ford were like 3rd team all-Jayhawk Conference or something like that.  Justin Boeker I don't think made any all-Anything teams.  And Marques McCarty ... well, he was an under-the-radar freshman who was under the radar for a reason.

 

Danai Young never played for us.  Justin Boeker rarely played in his two seasons.  Kedrick Ford was never more than a backup.  And Marques McCarty took a medical hardship so he could keep his scholarship and just not play basketball, which freed up the scholarship for Collier to use on someone else.  And I always wondered whether that was really Barry's call in order to get the 'ship back rather than McCarty deciding his knees were too bad to play.

 

And Collier was hired in March and had all summer to try to find some players somewhere.

 

Collier's late signees were nearly always terrible with the lone exception of Jay-R Strowbridge.

 

James Reynolds was bad and run off after a year; Suan Stegall was bad and run off after a year; and I've already gone over who Collier brought in for his first class.  Ugh.  We've come a long way since those dark days.

 

Not to mention Dangerous Dan Heimos.  

[Dead Dog Alley]

4 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

You forgot to mention how Collier chased off Louis Truscott.

 

 

Truscott went on to average a double double at the University of Houston.  He was a lot like Ed Morrow with respect to his game, only he was more explosive and didn't have bad feet.

 

[big red22]

On 8/23/2017 at 1:51 PM, Norm Peterson said:

Let me ask you this:  Who on the 14-15 team would start for this year's squad?

First let me say that the talent on this years team is far greater than 14-15, but there were players that under performed that year

 

I think the following would of had a say in who started

 

Petteway - for sure

Shields - 90% sure... Although we have more athletic guys right now

Webster - 75% sure...  He was a hyped player coming in

Pitchford - 100% to start the season (Basing this on the 13-14 season production)... but his lack of production in 14-15 leads me to believe he would of been benched for Roby

Smith - 50% sure... His lack of size tells me it would be 50/50 on who starts between Leslee Smith and Jordy

 

Problem is Watson starts over all of them, so obviously one of them does not start

 

Watson > Parker

Petteway > Palmer

Roby > Pitchford (I still believe Pitchford gets the nod if our mindset is after the 13-14 season)

Copeland > Shields

Jordy > Smith

 

In my opinion these 5 with our mindset going into 14-15 would be legit D1 players

 

PG - Parker

SG - Petteway

SF - Shields

PF - Petteway

C - Smith

 

Did it turn out that way, that is another story!

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

15 minutes ago, big red22 said:

First let me say that the talent on this years team is far greater than 14-15, but there were players that under performed that year

 

I think the following would of had a say in who started

 

Petteway - for sure

Shields - 90% sure... Although we have more athletic guys right now

Webster - 75% sure...  He was a hyped player coming in

Pitchford - 100% to start the season (Basing this on the 13-14 season production)... but his lack of production in 14-15 leads me to believe he would of been benched for Roby

Smith - 50% sure... His lack of size tells me it would be 50/50 on who starts between Leslee Smith and Jordy

 

Problem is Watson starts over all of them, so obviously one of them does not start

 

Watson > Parker

Petteway > Palmer

Roby > Pitchford (I still believe Pitchford gets the nod if our mindset is after the 13-14 season)

Copeland > Shields

Jordy > Smith

 

In my opinion these 5 with our mindset going into 14-15 would be legit D1 players

 

PG - Parker

SG - Petteway

SF - Shields

PF - Petteway

C - Smith

 

Did it turn out that way, that is another story!

 

 

 

I think there are a lot of people who would argue with you that Benny was a legit PG at this level.  Legit backup?  Yes.  Legit sparkplug off the bench?  Yes.  Legit starter for a P5 team?  Mmmmm.  Some people will argue that one.

 

Also, going into 14-15, Tai had struggled as a freshman.  He came off the bench as a sophomore.  So, I don't think we were looking at him as a starter going into 14-15.

 

Leslee Smith had been injured over the summer and it was unclear going into 14-15 whether he'd really be able to play at all.  He ended up playing in 17 games but he wasn't looked at as a starter going into that season either.

 

Our starting lineup for most of the season was Petteway, Shields, Pitchford, Rivers and Parker.

 

In my opinion, not looking back in hindsight but looking forward toward the 14-15 season, I would have considered both Rivers and Parker to be limited and not legit players for their positions.  You want a guard who's a solid threat to score from beyond the arc.  That wasn't Benny.  And a 6'7", 200# kid ain't no way he's a legit PF at this level.  Expecially not with his limited skills.  Did he play the position?  Yeah.  Does that make him a legit player at that position?  No.

 

Going into that season, I would have said we have three legit players at their positions.  If only we had a 6 foot PG who could score and a legit big man to play alongside Pitchford.

 

Looking back on that season, I'd say only two of those guys would have been threats to start for the team we have now.

[royalfan]

That team had Smith.  This one has Molinari.  Some people think that is a big deal.  I am included in those some.  

[Norm Peterson]

24 minutes ago, royalfan said:

That team had Smith.  This one has Molinari.  Some people think that is a big deal.  I am included in those some.  

 

Feel free to start a thread about coaching.

 

This one was about if/when we've had rosters where we could say we had a legit player at every spot on the floor.  No holes in the lineup.  Of players.

[Huskerpapa]

I believe Walter, Benny and David all had significant holes in their games that were exposed by quality teams/coaches.  Walter was a perimeter player who was reluctant to pound the middle.  If he could have been both a back-to-the-basket and perimeter player, he would significantly upped his game.  Both Benny and David were glue players,  Both were great team players, but their limitations played a role on how teams could defend us.  Heck, there were games where teams would simply not guard Benny. 

[uneblinstu]

1 hour ago, royalfan said:

That team had Smith.  This one has Molinari.  Some people think that is a big deal.  I am included in those some.  

14-15 was Smith's first season in South Dakota.

[TourneyBound]

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 9:49 AM, Norm Peterson said:

 

You forgot to mention how Collier chased off Louis Truscott.

 

I still am blown away by how bad that recruiting class was.

 

When Danny recruited jucos, we were used to seeing them be juco All-Americans, 1st or 2nd team.  Collier's first group, which consisted of 4 guys, was not mid-major material let alone P5 material.  Danai Young and Kedrick Ford were like 3rd team all-Jayhawk Conference or something like that.  Justin Boeker I don't think made any all-Anything teams.  And Marques McCarty ... well, he was an under-the-radar freshman who was under the radar for a reason.

 

Danai Young never played for us.  Justin Boeker rarely played in his two seasons.  Kedrick Ford was never more than a backup.  And Marques McCarty took a medical hardship so he could keep his scholarship and just not play basketball, which freed up the scholarship for Collier to use on someone else.  And I always wondered whether that was really Barry's call in order to get the 'ship back rather than McCarty deciding his knees were too bad to play.

 

And Collier was hired in March and had all summer to try to find some players somewhere.

 

Collier's late signees were nearly always terrible with the lone exception of Jay-R Strowbridge.

 

James Reynolds was bad and run off after a year; Suan Stegall was bad and run off after a year; and I've already gone over who Collier brought in for his first class.  Ugh.  We've come a long way since those dark days.

 

 

https://nebraska.rivals.com/commitments/basketball/2003

 

Is this the class you are referring too Norm??

[AuroranHusker]

3 hours ago, big red22 said:

In my opinion these 5 with our mindset going into 14-15 would be legit D1 players

 

PG - Parker

SG - Petteway

SF - Shields

PF - Petteway

C - Smith

 

Did it turn out that way, that is another story!

 

 

Anyone else notice that Petteway is the proverbial SG & PF combo player?! Now, that is production... 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by AuroranHusker

[royalfan]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Feel free to start a thread about coaching.

 

This one was about if/when we've had rosters where we could say we had a legit player at every spot on the floor.  No holes in the lineup.  Of players.

 

My bad.  I thought the thread was called "Let's talk basketball."  Perhaps you need to change the thread title to "Have we ever had a roster with a legit player at every position"  then people will know what they are and are not able to discuss in your thread. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by royalfan

[royalfan]

46 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

14-15 was Smith's first season in South Dakota.

 

Is there a point?  Are you suggesting that Smith was not a big part of the X and O situation here when we made the tournament?

[uneblinstu]

2 minutes ago, royalfan said:

 

Is there a point?  Are you suggesting that Smith was not a big part of the X and O situation here when we made the tournament?

Peeps were talking about the 14-15 roster. Smith wasn't a part of that coaching staff.

Edited August 25, 2017 by uneblinstu

[49r]

To try and weave this all together, maybe we can look at it this way.  How about we compare # of Rivals 150 guys in each column...I'm pretty sure the Smith column is 0.

 

With Smith here our highest level recruits were:

- Petteway

- Pitchford

- Hammond

- Webster

- Fuller

- Hawkins

 

Since Smith left the recruits that (Mo, Harriman, Hunter and Lewis) have reeled in include:

- McVeigh

- Watson - Rivals #82

- Morrow - Rivals #105

- Roby - Rivals #113

- Horne - Rivals #122

- Gill - Rivals #50

- Palmer - Rivals #99

- Copeland - Rivals #23

- Allen - Rivals #103

- Atenken 

 

Was coach Smith responsible for the extremely bare cupboard of talent that we are still trying to fill to this day?  Some people say yes.

Edited August 25, 2017 by 49r

[Norm Peterson]

2 hours ago, royalfan said:

 

My bad.  I thought the thread was called "Let's talk basketball."  Perhaps you need to change the thread title to "Have we ever had a roster with a legit player at every position"  then people will know what they are and are not able to discuss in your thread. 

 

Well, I could do that, I suppose.  But everyone else seemed to understand that this thread was about what the poll in the OP was about, which had nothing at all to do with an eval of our coaching staff.

[49r]

...and to look at the higher-level recruits the current coaching staff have brought in a little closer...

 

- McVeigh =============== Will be a Junior

- Watson - Rivals #82 ====== Will be a Junior

- Roby - Rivals #113 ======= Will be a Sophomore - played most of Fr year hobbled by injury

- Gill - Rivals #50 ========= Out half of last season with knee, will be a Junior

- Palmer - Rivals #99 ====== Has not played

- Copeland - Rivals #23 ==== Has not played

- Allen - Rivals #103 ====== Freshman

- Atenken  ============== Freshman

 

So, half of the guys that you could consider "impact" guys will be playing for the first time this year, and a couple more will be healthy (knock on wood) for the first time since they got here.

 

To summarize, I don't think we've had a roster this complete this century.  And it's not even close.  Still got a hole or two to fill though, IMO.