For the cerebral types: a little thought provocation

[Norm Peterson]

David Rivers.  He actually had a nice little career here at Nebraska.  I don't think he could have imagined, after his freshman year, logging the kind of minutes he ended up with over the next three seasons.

 

In his Husker career, he played a total of 2,195 minutes during which he scored 411 points.  That's a lot of minutes.  That's more than 20 minutes per game for an entire career.  But not a lot of points.

 

I wonder how many, if any, players at Nebraska over the last, say, 40 or 50 years, have played more minutes and scored fewer points.

 

By way of comparison, Toney McCray logged 2,086 career minutes and scored 759 career points.

 

If you think about it, that's going to be a pretty rare feat, what David Rivers has done.  Almost invariably, guys who log those kinds of minutes over the course of a career are putting up points in order to earn the playing time. 

 

Typically, the guys who are way down the list on scoring are also way down the list on minutes.  And I suspect that rare, indeed, will be the guy who has played as many career minutes as David but scored fewer points.

[Norm Peterson]

Just a quick kind of rummaging through some old stat sheets, and here's another player for comparison purposes:

 

John Matzke, playing in the early to mid 80s alongside Dave Hoppen (who commanded nearly all of the offensive attention), played a total of 1592 minutes in his career while scoring a total of 299 career points.

 

In terms of adjusted scoring average (points per 40 minutes of playing time), Matzke outpaces Rivers by the slimmest of margins, scoring at a 7.51/40 minutes clip compared to Rivers at 7.49/40 minutes.  But Rivers also played an extra 603 career minutes, which is like a whole extra season at 20 minutes/game.

[basketballjones]

Just unreal.

[throwback]

Benny Parker thru 3 seasons -- I think these are right -- 2,032 minutes, 296 points, so he'll likely play more minutes than Rivers in 4 years & score less.

 

Back to the original question, I can't think of any other 4-year players in modern times who would come close to those numbers - maybe Conklin? Andy Markowski? I'm sure both guys are well over 500 points, but neither was a huge average per game scorer I don't believe, but played a lot.

 

A guy like Chuck Richardson may have numbers most similar to Parker, but I'm sure Chuck scored many more points. Same with Sek Henry I'm sure, but both played a lot of minutes without being big scorers. Corey Simms maybe? Simms didn't play a whole lot as a senior, as I recall, so he might not have gotten to 2000 minutes.

 

Definitely an odd stat, especially to have two players with those kind of numbers together for 3 seasons - I'd be surprised if we've ever had another time with 2 guys that have been over-2000-minutes, under-500-points in a career together on the same team. Heck I'd be surprised if we've had more than 1 or 2 other guys like that period in the past 50 years.

 

Back to Rivers, I agree with your opening paragraph. When he came in with the other 2 freshmen, he was the last one I thought would make it at NU for 4 years, let alone play that many minutes. He maxed out and then some compared to what I thought he could do, and earned his minutes on those teams. 

[bkamler]

Just a quick kind of rummaging through some old stat sheets, and here's another player for comparison purposes:

John Matzke, playing in the early to mid 80s alongside Dave Hoppen (who commanded nearly all of the offensive attention), played a total of 1592 minutes in his career while scoring a total of 299 career points.

In terms of adjusted scoring average (points per 40 minutes of playing time), Matzke outpaces Rivers by the slimmest of margins, scoring at a 7.51/40 minutes clip compared to Rivers at 7.49/40 minutes. But Rivers also played an extra 603 career minutes, which is like a whole extra season at 20 minutes/game.

[bkamler]

I remember watching Matzke turn down six or seven ten foot shots in the first half of a game at the Devaney Center and I couldn't take if any more. I stood up and yelled: "If you can't hit that shot then buy a damn ticket and sit next to me!"

Someone who knew me came down a couple of rows and whispered in my ear: "His parents are sitting right behind you and he is not allowed to shoot by Iba only in to pass to Hoppen and play D."

I was so embarrassed that I moved elsewhere. Matzke did play a big role in the upset of #1 Missouri on the road that year.

[Huskerpapa]

Man, I was going to suggest Richard van Poelgeest but nope, in his four years, he played 1732 minutes and scored a robust 625 points with 402 rebounds.  No mention of the number of rims that had to replaced due to the bricks that he sometimes threw at the basket  

[Norm Peterson]

Andy Markowski doesn't beat Rivers by a lot, but he does beat him.  Andy logged a total of 2546 minutes while putting up 603 points for his career.

 

Corey Simms had 531 points in 2209 career minutes.  So he, again, has Rivers beat, although not by much.

 

Sek Henry scored 872 points in 3113 career minutes.  That's more than double David Rivers' scoring production in just less than 1 1/2 times the minutes.

 

I think Benny is probably going to be the guy who has more minutes and fewer points.  And it is an enormous rarity for one guy to have that sort of inversion in minutes played versus points scored.  But to have two of them on the same team for 3 years just boggles the mind.

 

Someone, please, find another player in that category.  Please.  I issue you the challenge.

[Blindcheck]

What about Keith neubert?

[swmckewon]

 

 But to have two of them on the same team for 3 years just boggles the mind.

And to have those 2 be 2 of the 4 best players on a given team, as was the case this year. 

[Huskerpapa]

I remember watching Matzke turn down six or seven ten foot shots in the first half of a game at the Devaney Center and I couldn't take if any more. I stood up and yelled: "If you can't hit that shot then buy a damn ticket and sit next to me!"

Someone who knew me came down a couple of rows and whispered in my ear: "His parents are sitting right behind you and he is not allowed to shoot by Iba only in to pass to Hoppen and play D."

I was so embarrassed that I moved elsewhere. Matzke did play a big role in the upset of #1 Missouri on the road that year.

I remember thoses teams and your buddy was correct...or so I was told.  Moe wanted Dave to touch the ball each offensive set.  And when you think about it, that was a pretty sound strategy. 

[Norm Peterson]

What about Keith neubert?

Nope.  In fact, Keith only played 722 career minutes at Nebraska, which is more in line with expectations for a guy who isn't scoring very much.

[HB]

 

I remember watching Matzke turn down six or seven ten foot shots in the first half of a game at the Devaney Center and I couldn't take if any more. I stood up and yelled: "If you can't hit that shot then buy a damn ticket and sit next to me!"

Someone who knew me came down a couple of rows and whispered in my ear: "His parents are sitting right behind you and he is not allowed to shoot by Iba only in to pass to Hoppen and play D."

I was so embarrassed that I moved elsewhere. Matzke did play a big role in the upset of #1 Missouri on the road that year.

I remember thoses teams and your buddy was correct...or so I was told.  Moe wanted Dave to touch the ball each offensive set.  And when you think about it, that was a pretty sound strategy. 

 

 

And think what they could have done with a 3 point shot then.  Harvey Marshall's outside shots being worth 3 would have made teams pay more for packing it in on Dave--or cleared it up for him a little.  

[BannedAccount]

Andy Markowski doesn't beat Rivers by a lot, but he does beat him.  Andy logged a total of 2546 minutes while putting up 603 points for his career.

 

Corey Simms had 531 points in 2209 career minutes.  So he, again, has Rivers beat, although not by much.

 

Sek Henry scored 872 points in 3113 career minutes.  That's more than double David Rivers' scoring production in just less than 1 1/2 times the minutes.

 

I think Benny is probably going to be the guy who has more minutes and fewer points.  And it is an enormous rarity for one guy to have that sort of inversion in minutes played versus points scored.  But to have two of them on the same team for 3 years just boggles the mind.

 

Someone, please, find another player in that category.  Please.  I issue you the challenge.

 

But everyone treated Sek like he was sooooo good

[HB]

 

Andy Markowski doesn't beat Rivers by a lot, but he does beat him.  Andy logged a total of 2546 minutes while putting up 603 points for his career.

 

Corey Simms had 531 points in 2209 career minutes.  So he, again, has Rivers beat, although not by much.

 

Sek Henry scored 872 points in 3113 career minutes.  That's more than double David Rivers' scoring production in just less than 1 1/2 times the minutes.

 

I think Benny is probably going to be the guy who has more minutes and fewer points.  And it is an enormous rarity for one guy to have that sort of inversion in minutes played versus points scored.  But to have two of them on the same team for 3 years just boggles the mind.

 

Someone, please, find another player in that category.  Please.  I issue you the challenge.

 

But everyone treated Sek like he was sooooo good

 

 

And some disrespected the hell out of him, continuously.  And years later he's still in their heads.

[cipsucks]

Jerry Shoecraft.

[jimmykc]

If shoes were points, Jerry would be near the top of the standings.

[AuroranHusker]

It's really no small wonder that Nebraska made the tourney last year, and 2 main contributors as "role players" were Scoreless Wonders like Dave & Benny. Not a big shock this season that opponents figured out to leave them open & rabidly guarded the other 3....