Does anyone hear that hissing sound?

Hoops_Legend · January 2, 2015

I have to agree with President Dead on this one fellas..... I watched a basketball team on Wednesday that is totally lost with no identity. Our rebounding is down right PATHETIC to the worst degree and missed layups in the first 8 mins of the game were middle school stuff. I LOVE TIM MILES I really do but the zone defense we awful we allowed so many open layups in the zone defense that can never happen. I will agree the x's and O's coaching of Miles has been suspect since his boy Craig Smith left. Remember this is the first time in 18yrs of coaching that Miles did not have Craig Smith on his staff makes you wonder.... Miles may need to win with superior talent and he has proven that he can do that so far with addition of Andrew White and recruiting class that is coming in.

NIT OR BUST at this point...

HB · January 2, 2015

I have to agree with President Dead on this one fellas..... I watched a basketball team on Wednesday that is totally lost with no identity. Our rebounding is down right PATHETIC to the worst degree and missed layups in the first 8 mins of the game were middle school stuff. I LOVE TIM MILES I really do but the zone defense we awful we allowed so many open layups in the zone defense that can never happen. I will agree the x's and O's coaching of Miles has been suspect since his boy Craig Smith left. Remember this is the first time in 18yrs of coaching that Miles did not have Craig Smith on his staff makes you wonder.... Miles may need to win with superior talent and he has proven that he can do that so far with addition of Andrew White and recruiting class that is coming in.

NIT OR BUST at this point...

How are the missed layups a product of a coach's inability to X and O?

Sure you love Miles, you just don't think he can coach. Classic.

Hoops_Legend · January 2, 2015

I have to agree with President Dead on this one fellas..... I watched a basketball team on Wednesday that is totally lost with no identity. Our rebounding is down right PATHETIC to the worst degree and missed layups in the first 8 mins of the game were middle school stuff. I LOVE TIM MILES I really do but the zone defense we awful we allowed so many open layups in the zone defense that can never happen. I will agree the x's and O's coaching of Miles has been suspect since his boy Craig Smith left. Remember this is the first time in 18yrs of coaching that Miles did not have Craig Smith on his staff makes you wonder.... Miles may need to win with superior talent and he has proven that he can do that so far with addition of Andrew White and recruiting class that is coming in.

NIT OR BUST at this point...

How are the missed layups a product of a coach's inability to X and O?

Sure you love Miles, you just don't think he can coach. Classic.

Yes missed layups are a coaching aspect its basic basketball knowledge to know when you go up for contested layup you should bank off the window. If go for a layup soft and try to lay it the hoop you better just dunk it. Listen Miles has the tools in recruiting the talent to win this years class is example of that but his offense is just awful there is no back door cutting all it is screen and pop around the 3pt line and if thats covered we either give it to petteway who waits for a screen and launches a 25ft jumper thats low percentage or we try to drive the line and pray we get fouled for the and-1.

Hopefully lots things change when Leslee Smith and Moses come back but come on guys you cannot tell me Leslee Smith and Moses are beast in the middle that change the course so drastically that we all of sudden become top 25 level team. I just don't see it.

Heres a fact that really bothers me: Petteway scores 23pts, Shavon Shields scores 22pts, Walter Pitchford Scores 11 pts and you still lose by 5 that should never happen with these type of scoring.

HuskerFever · January 2, 2015

Heres a fact that really bothers me: Petteway scores 23pts, Shavon Shields scores 22pts, Walter Pitchford Scores 11 pts and you still lose by 5 that should never happen with these type of scoring.

...unless you're in the Big Ten where it's common for opponents to also have 23, 22, and 11 point scorers. It's a tough league. The ones that seem to succeed the most are the ones that are able to get strong production out of its bench.

Norm Peterson · January 2, 2015

You all are likely being trolled. I could be wrong...but, this guy opens a new name and while all of his posts are in regards to the Huskers he name drops Creighton in the majority of them.

Which is why I said ...

Look, I and you saw an NCAA tourney team last year....returning virtually 90% of its scoring. We haven't stepped up our game one bit, in fact, we've stepped it back. Intelligent fans don't have to be blind ones, and vice-versa. My opinion was sweet 16ish pre-season, not expecting to see such poor execution and a lack of ball dicipline.

I believe the evidence is showing that Miles isn't a guy that is going to out scheme anyone, he's a guy requiring superior talent, and I hope his talent is to pull that in.

Explain how a well coached team loses AT HOME to Creighton and Incarnate Word??

Did you expect to see injuries to Leslee and Moses? Because as I see it, that's more of a factor than the lack of execution so far.

No, I think he expected to see more out of Leon Gilmore and Ricky Kreklow and is pissed at how his own team's NCAA tourney hopes are evaporating and so, to make himself feel better, signed up over here and figured he'd come rub our noses in a loss.

HB · January 2, 2015

I have to agree with President Dead on this one fellas..... I watched a basketball team on Wednesday that is totally lost with no identity. Our rebounding is down right PATHETIC to the worst degree and missed layups in the first 8 mins of the game were middle school stuff. I LOVE TIM MILES I really do but the zone defense we awful we allowed so many open layups in the zone defense that can never happen. I will agree the x's and O's coaching of Miles has been suspect since his boy Craig Smith left. Remember this is the first time in 18yrs of coaching that Miles did not have Craig Smith on his staff makes you wonder.... Miles may need to win with superior talent and he has proven that he can do that so far with addition of Andrew White and recruiting class that is coming in.

NIT OR BUST at this point...

How are the missed layups a product of a coach's inability to X and O?

Sure you love Miles, you just don't think he can coach. Classic.

Yes missed layups are a coaching aspect its basic basketball knowledge to know when you go up for contested layup you should bank off the window. If go for a layup soft and try to lay it the hoop you better just dunk it. Listen Miles has the tools in recruiting the talent to win this years class is example of that but his offense is just awful there is no back door cutting all it is screen and pop around the 3pt line and if thats covered we either give it to petteway who waits for a screen and launches a 25ft jumper thats low percentage or we try to drive the line and pray we get fouled for the and-1.

Hopefully lots things change when Leslee Smith and Moses come back but come on guys you cannot tell me Leslee Smith and Moses are beast in the middle that change the course so drastically that we all of sudden become top 25 level team. I just don't see it.

Heres a fact that really bothers me: Petteway scores 23pts, Shavon Shields scores 22pts, Walter Pitchford Scores 11 pts and you still lose by 5 that should never happen with these type of scoring.

Yep, we're just rolling in talent. That's why Crean chose not to guard 2 or 3 talented players every time we had the ball. I don't see how not having guys who can shoot should remotely affect our offensive production. Any decent coach should be able to get around that problem....

Norm Peterson · January 2, 2015

I have to agree with President Dead on this one fellas..... I watched a basketball team on Wednesday that is totally lost with no identity. Our rebounding is down right PATHETIC to the worst degree and missed layups in the first 8 mins of the game were middle school stuff. I LOVE TIM MILES I really do but the zone defense we awful we allowed so many open layups in the zone defense that can never happen. I will agree the x's and O's coaching of Miles has been suspect since his boy Craig Smith left. Remember this is the first time in 18yrs of coaching that Miles did not have Craig Smith on his staff makes you wonder.... Miles may need to win with superior talent and he has proven that he can do that so far with addition of Andrew White and recruiting class that is coming in.

NIT OR BUST at this point...

How are the missed layups a product of a coach's inability to X and O?

Sure you love Miles, you just don't think he can coach. Classic.

Yes missed layups are a coaching aspect its basic basketball knowledge to know when you go up for contested layup you should bank off the window. If go for a layup soft and try to lay it the hoop you better just dunk it. Listen Miles has the tools in recruiting the talent to win this years class is example of that but his offense is just awful there is no back door cutting all it is screen and pop around the 3pt line and if thats covered we either give it to petteway who waits for a screen and launches a 25ft jumper thats low percentage or we try to drive the line and pray we get fouled for the and-1.

Hopefully lots things change when Leslee Smith and Moses come back but come on guys you cannot tell me Leslee Smith and Moses are beast in the middle that change the course so drastically that we all of sudden become top 25 level team. I just don't see it.

Heres a fact that really bothers me: Petteway scores 23pts, Shavon Shields scores 22pts, Walter Pitchford Scores 11 pts and you still lose by 5 that should never happen with these type of scoring.

Yep, we're just rolling in talent. That's why Crean chose not to guard 2 or 3 talented players every time we had the ball. I don't see how not having guys who can shoot should remotely affect our offensive production. Any decent coach should be able to get around that problem....

By teaching kids how to shoot layups. Obviously. :rolleyes:

jimmykc · January 2, 2015

If I'm not mistaken, kidney used to have his girls practice a layup drill almost every day. Now that is how to coach them up.

Silverbacked1 · January 2, 2015

If I'm not mistaken, kidney used to have his girls practice a layup drill almost every day. Now that is how to coach them up.

And in warm ups before games!!!!!!!

HB · January 2, 2015

If I'm not mistaken, kidney used to have his girls practice a layup drill almost every day. Now that is how to coach them up.

And in warm ups before games!!!!!!!

But he was careful to not have them dunk, unlike Kye....

Silverbacked1 · January 2, 2015

Yeah Kye didn't hear the po-po call to stop dunking.

Norm Peterson · January 2, 2015

I understand, no I'm not bailing on the team. At some point, realism sets in, I just am not impressed AT ALL with what I see on the court...players and coaches. Tom Crean outcoached us big time last night, Greg McDermott out coached us big time a month ago, I can't pretend to see progress or a realistic reason for NCAA tourney action.

Can you? Be honest.

No, I don't see a realistic reason for NCAA tourney action for our team or yours. Yeah, you guys beat us, and congrats on that, but it must be small comfort to you after losing three of your last 4, most recently an 8 point drubbing at Providence. And, let's be honest, Providence isn't exactly the Indiana Hoosiers.

By the way, you better hope you can get DePaul at home; otherwise, you face a good chance of going 0-for January in conference play. That hissing sound might be the 4 tires on your bus.

Norm Peterson · January 2, 2015

Hoops Legend thinks Tim Miles got out-coached by Tom Crean on Wednesday.

Let me put some perspective on this:

PG -- *** got outcoached by PG -- *****

SG -- *** SG -- *****

SF -- *** SF -- ****

PF -- *** PF -- ****

C -- *** C -- ****

I don't think I'd give Crean that much of the credit.

atskooc · January 2, 2015

Hoops Legend thinks Tim Miles got out-coached by Tom Crean on Wednesday.

Let me put some perspective on this:

PG -- ***     got outcoached by     PG -- *****

SG -- ***                           SG -- *****

SF -- ***                           SF -- ****

PF -- ***                           PF -- ****

C -- ***                           C -- ****

I don't think I'd give Crean that much of the credit.

So, a coach with more talent can't outcoach a coach with less talent in what turns out to be a close game on the road?

I'm not arguing one guy outcoached another, I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning and to what extent you won't use this argument later in the year when we lose games to teams with far more talent.

Hoops_Legend · January 2, 2015

I have to agree with President Dead on this one fellas..... I watched a basketball team on Wednesday that is totally lost with no identity. Our rebounding is down right PATHETIC to the worst degree and missed layups in the first 8 mins of the game were middle school stuff. I LOVE TIM MILES I really do but the zone defense we awful we allowed so many open layups in the zone defense that can never happen. I will agree the x's and O's coaching of Miles has been suspect since his boy Craig Smith left. Remember this is the first time in 18yrs of coaching that Miles did not have Craig Smith on his staff makes you wonder.... Miles may need to win with superior talent and he has proven that he can do that so far with addition of Andrew White and recruiting class that is coming in.

NIT OR BUST at this point...

How are the missed layups a product of a coach's inability to X and O?

Sure you love Miles, you just don't think he can coach. Classic.

Yes missed layups are a coaching aspect its basic basketball knowledge to know when you go up for contested layup you should bank off the window. If go for a layup soft and try to lay it the hoop you better just dunk it. Listen Miles has the tools in recruiting the talent to win this years class is example of that but his offense is just awful there is no back door cutting all it is screen and pop around the 3pt line and if thats covered we either give it to petteway who waits for a screen and launches a 25ft jumper thats low percentage or we try to drive the line and pray we get fouled for the and-1.

Hopefully lots things change when Leslee Smith and Moses come back but come on guys you cannot tell me Leslee Smith and Moses are beast in the middle that change the course so drastically that we all of sudden become top 25 level team. I just don't see it.

Heres a fact that really bothers me: Petteway scores 23pts, Shavon Shields scores 22pts, Walter Pitchford Scores 11 pts and you still lose by 5 that should never happen with these type of scoring.

Yep, we're just rolling in talent. That's why Crean chose not to guard 2 or 3 talented players every time we had the ball. I don't see how not having guys who can shoot should remotely affect our offensive production. Any decent coach should be able to get around that problem....

By teaching kids how to shoot layups. Obviously.

You all have to agree missing you first 3 or 4 gimme layups is a huge problem and it did not happen in just this game against Indiana it has happened a couple more times this season. You cannot win BIG BOY basketball by not making layups that not contested. The Golden rule in basketball fundamentals is if you go up for a layup bank it in.

But my main problem with this team is rebounding there was so many times during the last 6 or 7 games that nobody is boxing out for the rebound on offense or defense. Teams are getting an avg 8 or 9 offensive rebounds a game that cannot happen ever we cannot win that way. Our defense on wWednesdaywas good enough to hold 3pt shooting down to lowest of the season for Indiana but if we don't get the rebound it wont help us to win. Pitchford has got to change his mindset and realized until Leslee or Moses comes back he needs to crash the boards and be aggressive. Petteway has done an excellent job of rebounding but he cannot be the only one doing it.

I am no down on Tim Miles has a coach I believe he is the guy to take this program to another level but we need to figure out the rebounding and makes change the offense to win these physical games.

49r · January 2, 2015

I understand, no I'm not bailing on the team. At some point, realism sets in, I just am not impressed AT ALL with what I see on the court...players and coaches. Tom Crean outcoached us big time last night, Greg McDermott out coached us big time a month ago, I can't pretend to see progress or a realistic reason for NCAA tourney action.

Can you? Be honest.

No, I don't see a realistic reason for NCAA tourney action for our team or yours. Yeah, you guys beat us, and congrats on that, but it must be small comfort to you after losing three of your last 4, most recently an 8 point drubbing at Providence. And, let's be honest, Providence isn't exactly the Indiana Hoosiers.

By the way, you better hope you can get DePaul at home; otherwise, you face a good chance of going 0-for January in conference play. That hissing sound might be the 4 tires on your bus.

In fairness, Norm, and I'm certainly not calling you out here because this is a pretty troll-ish thread, but Coach Miles admitted himself after the Creighton game that he was out-coached and put the loss on his own shoulders.

That he was out-coached by Crean is certainly up for debate and a matter of opinion, but seeing how Miles is 2-2 against Crean at Nebraska, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

atskooc · January 2, 2015

I understand, no I'm not bailing on the team. At some point, realism sets in, I just am not impressed AT ALL with what I see on the court...players and coaches. Tom Crean outcoached us big time last night, Greg McDermott out coached us big time a month ago, I can't pretend to see progress or a realistic reason for NCAA tourney action.

Can you? Be honest.

No, I don't see a realistic reason for NCAA tourney action for our team or yours. Yeah, you guys beat us, and congrats on that, but it must be small comfort to you after losing three of your last 4, most recently an 8 point drubbing at Providence. And, let's be honest, Providence isn't exactly the Indiana Hoosiers.

By the way, you better hope you can get DePaul at home; otherwise, you face a good chance of going 0-for January in conference play. That hissing sound might be the 4 tires on your bus.

In fairness, Norm, and I'm certainly not calling you out here because this is a pretty troll-ish thread, but Coach Miles admitted himself after the Creighton game that he was out-coached and put the loss on his own shoulders.

That he was out-coached by Crean is certainly up for debate and a matter of opinion, but seeing how Miles is 2-2 against Crean at Nebraska, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

True. I'm kind of ashamed I chimed in on this one.

Silverbacked1 · January 2, 2015

Oh we all get caught up in "it" sometimes.

Huskerpapa · January 2, 2015

Good coaching puts talent in the position to score. It is up to the talent to execute in those situations. We were in a position to score often against Indiana. We failed to execute. There may be a multitude of reasons for failing to execute, so I am not about to pick on our players. But by the same token, I will not pick on our coaches either. They had a good game plan in place, but even the best game plan can look BAD when it is not effectively executed.

So if I can be so humble to chime in, the loss to Indiana was not the results of a botched game plan...we were outrebounded, which resulted in too many second chance points and we missed way too many bunnies. Their talent as a whole, out performed our talent as a whole.

CrazyforNUHOOPS · January 2, 2015

I've yet to see anyone mention that at this point last season, an NCAA tournament season, the team was 8-5. What's their record right now?

Norm Peterson · January 2, 2015

I understand, no I'm not bailing on the team. At some point, realism sets in, I just am not impressed AT ALL with what I see on the court...players and coaches. Tom Crean outcoached us big time last night, Greg McDermott out coached us big time a month ago, I can't pretend to see progress or a realistic reason for NCAA tourney action.

Can you? Be honest.

No, I don't see a realistic reason for NCAA tourney action for our team or yours. Yeah, you guys beat us, and congrats on that, but it must be small comfort to you after losing three of your last 4, most recently an 8 point drubbing at Providence. And, let's be honest, Providence isn't exactly the Indiana Hoosiers.

By the way, you better hope you can get DePaul at home; otherwise, you face a good chance of going 0-for January in conference play. That hissing sound might be the 4 tires on your bus.

In fairness, Norm, and I'm certainly not calling you out here because this is a pretty troll-ish thread, but Coach Miles admitted himself after the Creighton game that he was out-coached and put the loss on his own shoulders.

That he was out-coached by Crean is certainly up for debate and a matter of opinion, but seeing how Miles is 2-2 against Crean at Nebraska, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Did you intend to quote this post or were you intending to quote a different post of mine in this thread? I didn't say anything at all about Miles being outcoached or not outcoached by Doug McDermott's dad. Not in this post or any other in this thread. The only one where I mentioned a claim of Miles being outcoached was with respect to the claim that he was outcoached by Crean. But that was in a different post, not this one.

Norm Peterson · January 2, 2015

Hoops Legend thinks Tim Miles got out-coached by Tom Crean on Wednesday.

Let me put some perspective on this:

PG -- ***     got outcoached by     PG -- *****

SG -- ***                           SG -- *****

SF -- ***                           SF -- ****

PF -- ***                           PF -- ****

C -- ***                           C -- ****

I don't think I'd give Crean that much of the credit.

(1) So, a coach with more talent can't outcoach a coach with less talent in what turns out to be a close game on the road?

(2) I'm not arguing one guy outcoached another, I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning and to what extent you won't use this argument later in the year when we lose games to teams with far more talent.

(1) I never said.

And (2): So, then, what's your point?

Let me ask you a different question before I answer yours: Did you watch the game?

atskooc · January 2, 2015

Hoops Legend thinks Tim Miles got out-coached by Tom Crean on Wednesday.

Let me put some perspective on this:

PG -- ***     got outcoached by     PG -- *****

SG -- ***                           SG -- *****

SF -- ***                           SF -- ****

PF -- ***                           PF -- ****

C -- ***                           C -- ****

I don't think I'd give Crean that much of the credit.

(1) So, a coach with more talent can't outcoach a coach with less talent in what turns out to be a close game on the road?

(2) I'm not arguing one guy outcoached another, I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning and to what extent you won't use this argument later in the year when we lose games to teams with far more talent.

(1) I never said.

And (2): So, then, what's your point?

Let me ask you a different question before I answer yours: Did you watch the game?

I caught most of it, yes. Listened to the first ten minutes when I was driving home.

I'm necessarily sure I had much of a point; I was just wondering how pointing to recruiting rankings means Crean didn't outcoach Miles. Is this generally your rubric?

Creighton Fan · January 2, 2015

Hoops Legend thinks Tim Miles got out-coached by Tom Crean on Wednesday.

Let me put some perspective on this:

PG -- *** got outcoached by PG -- *****

SG -- *** SG -- *****

SF -- *** SF -- ****

PF -- *** PF -- ****

C -- *** C -- ****

I don't think I'd give Crean that much of the credit.

If it's that simple, I guess it is a lock that Miles was outcoached by the Incarnate Word dude?

Norm Peterson · January 2, 2015

To answer your question, yes, I think it's theoretically possible for a coach with superior talent to outcoach a coach with inferior talent in what turns out to be a close game on the road.

I don't think that's what happened Wednesday night, however.

I think some people reflexively blame "coaching" for losses when they don't really know or understand the whys and hows of what happens in a game. They've heard the phrase "being outcoached" and so they throw the vague "he got outcoached" terminology out there when they don't know how to articulate their frustration at losing in any other way.

Assume for a moment that I didn't see the game and didn't listen to it and that all I know is that a team with superior talent won by 5 on the road. The most obvious explanation for why the team with superior talent won would be their superior talent and not their coaching, no?

I haven't seen anyone state with any specificity exactly how they think Miles' coaching against Indiana was deficient or how Crean "outcoached" Miles, other than in Miles' obvious failure to educate his players on using the backboard when attempting a layup. Nevermind that I have personally heard clips posted on this very website where Miles has instructed his players to go high off the glass. So, not sure that's a legitimate criticism.

But I did see the game. And I didn't personally witness this "outcoaching" that Crean supposedly did. What I saw was weaknesses of our roster being exploited by strengths of theirs.

Unless someone cares to explain with any sort of particulars -- beyond a knee-jerk reaction -- what the outcoaching consisted of. I didn't see it.

My rubric, by the way, is: I'll tell you if I see it. And I didn't see it.

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