Recruiting Expectations

[MandRHusker]

I posted this in another thread and thought it may make an interesting thread of its own. What are your recruiting expectations? I have listed mine below.

It would be nice to sign top 50 recruits in the 2nd year out but normally that only happens that quickly if the program is a past blue blood, located in a talent hot bed or the coach takes a short cut, like Bob Huggins did at K State. The model I use for building a program in Nebraska's situation, while following the rules, is Connie Yori.

2001-2 14-16 Last year under Paul Sanderford

2002-3 8-20 Connie's first year

2003-4 18-12 WNIT

2004-5 18-14 WNIT

2005-6 19-13 WNIT

2006-7 22-10 and her first NCAA appearance.

And she's had two losing seasons since then, in 2008-9 when Kelsey Griffith was injured and 2010-11 the year after Kelsey left.

I think people underestimate how difficult it is to turn a program around! It takes time. First you demonstrate you can coach players up and win with mid level talent, then the good ones start to come to you. Actually, that just happened for Connie for the first time this year! She has three top 100 players in her 2014 class and is ranked #9.

Let's hear what you expect.

[Norm Peterson]

Not sure you can use a women's program as a model for the men's game, in part because you don't have the one-and-done players in women's hoops that you have in the men's game.  The number of players who leave early for the NBA creates a talent vacuum in the men's game that forces the non-blueblood programs to compete over a smaller talent pool. 

 

Connie also has the good fortune of having enough local talent to build a successful program around.  Find some pieces to the puzzle in more distant places, perhaps.  But there's enough local talent to fill in the gaps and complete the roster.  Lately, she's starting to draw from an increasingly large circle of "local" which now apparently includes Wamego, KS.  But, still, she's able to fill out her roster with local kids, whereas the men have to search far and wide for basically all of their recruits. 

 

The third thing is she landed Kelsey Griffin.  Kelsey always says she was relatively unheralded coming out of Eagle River, Alaska, and that Connie "took a chance" on this relatively unknown kid.  But that unknown kid became an All-American and took her team to a Sweet 16 and that opened a lot of recruit's doors right there.  There was a little bit of luck or "good fortune" involved there.

 

Finally, I think there's less immediate pressure on a women's coach.  Women's hoops is still not a revenue sport.  I don't think women's coaches have anywhere near as much pressure to win and win now.  That allows a coach like Connie the latitude to build a program "the right way" and to be patient with the process.   Look at some of the recruiting threads expressing concern already about Miles' ability to land quality recruits and I think you can get a flavor of some of the pressure for a men's coach to produce immediate results.

 

I think Connie is a model for something but I'm not sure that model can be applied to the men's game necessarily because there are some intrinsic differences between the situations that men's and women's coaches face.

[hhcmatt]

As much grief as I give him, I think the rise of Iowa basketball under Fran McCaffery in terms of talent and post season would meet my expectations.

[Huskerpapa]

My expectations are pretty simple:

-  We need to continue to improve the talent.  We have moved quite impressively in that direction, but that needs to continue exponentially. 

- The kids need to have heart and tenacity.  I believe a rival coach referenced our players as junkyard dogs.  I like that...I want talented kids who will work hard, then work harder, and then hustle their collective butts off on the court. 

- The kids need to be of high character.  Character defines the team and the program.  I want aggressive behaivior on the court, but kids the community can be proud of off the court.

- I want shooters as well as scorers.  That comment makes sense to me...

- I would like to see us make some positive movement up the star list.  That goes with the talent point.  For us to do that, we need wins, including wins in the dance. 

[hhcmatt]

- I want shooters as well as scorers.  That comment makes sense to me...

 

I think you'll see this pan out with Hawkins and Fuller. 

 

Part of the Tim Miles plan seems to be increasing the overall Effective FG%, which adds additional value to shooting percentage for every 3 made.  Having guys who can consistently hit open threes would mean either more kickouts or more room in the lane then we are currently seeing.

[lanigan123]

I wont compare what the girl(s) did to what the men do. Mens and womens sports are so different, in all aspects. While that trajectory is a good one, one I thought we would follow, However, I dont think it speaks to recruiting expectations. My recruiting expectations are bringing in people who can help this team right now. While I think Hammond is a good player, I think he needs a year or two of development. Miles has done a great job grabbing transfers, and I hope he gets a senior transfer this year, but we need guys who can come in and play right away, like a Kendrick Nunn. I dont expect Miles to be able to grab multiple top 100 guys every year, but landing 1 every other year and one in the top 200 every year is what I would like to see.

[uneblinstu]

Honestly, I want the program to have an identity. Establish that and recruit to it.

 

I've heard it said before that when your most talented player is your hardest worker, that usually means good things for the team as a whole. Right now, that's the case. It's the case at Creighton, too. If that continues for the Huskers, the next two years are gonna be spectacular. If that rubs off on Tai, that would be nice, too. Find more kids like that, establish your identity. Recruit the most talented kids you can to it. (see Wisconsin)

[MandRHusker]

Not sure you can use a women's program as a model for the men's game, in part because you don't have the one-and-done players in women's hoops that you have in the men's game.  The number of players who leave early for the NBA creates a talent vacuum in the men's game that forces the non-blueblood programs to compete over a smaller talent pool. 

 

Connie also has the good fortune of having enough local talent to build a successful program around.  Find some pieces to the puzzle in more distant places, perhaps.  But there's enough local talent to fill in the gaps and complete the roster.  Lately, she's starting to draw from an increasingly large circle of "local" which now apparently includes Wamego, KS.  But, still, she's able to fill out her roster with local kids, whereas the men have to search far and wide for basically all of their recruits. 

 

The third thing is she landed Kelsey Griffin.  Kelsey always says she was relatively unheralded coming out of Eagle River, Alaska, and that Connie "took a chance" on this relatively unknown kid.  But that unknown kid became an All-American and took her team to a Sweet 16 and that opened a lot of recruit's doors right there.  There was a little bit of luck or "good fortune" involved there.

 

Finally, I think there's less immediate pressure on a women's coach.  Women's hoops is still not a revenue sport.  I don't think women's coaches have anywhere near as much pressure to win and win now.  That allows a coach like Connie the latitude to build a program "the right way" and to be patient with the process.   Look at some of the recruiting threads expressing concern already about Miles' ability to land quality recruits and I think you can get a flavor of some of the pressure for a men's coach to produce immediate results.

 

I think Connie is a model for something but I'm not sure that model can be applied to the men's game necessarily because there are some intrinsic differences between the situations that men's and women's coaches face.

I happen to agree with you on all counts Norm. I guess where I see a correlation between the two is relative. Both came into programs that were struggling in areas that weren't talent rich with top level recruits. Yes, Nebraska does produce more top level girls basketball talent than boys. So that means it is even more difficult for Tim than it was for Connie. But despite this, I believe it is possible we achieve a top 25 rating next year without a dramatic infuse of talent. If we bring in another scorer we could make it to the mid teens in terms of rating. That is incredible progress. Could it be that Petteway is Miles Kelsey Griffith?

[lanigan123]

I believe it was on the Nick Bahe show where an analyst said 1 NBA type player gets you in to the NCAA tourney, 2 gets you to the sweet 16 and 3 get you a final 4.

I really like Nick Fuller as a good back up minutes type of guy. I think Hawkins will have a small role with this team, but outside of the transfers, I dont see a guy that appears to be the type to put Nebraska over the top. I like Tai and think he can be a very good b1g guard, not Terran good, but a good player. I like Hammond and I think he is a solid piece and will develop in to a good player. I hope we get another transfer this year, but, and it has been written in the media, year 2 and 3 of new coaching staffs are generally when you need to start reeling in the big fish. Guys like a Bryant Crawford or an Edward Morrow fall in to those categories. Nebraska really needs to sign one or two top 150 guys next years as they are the ones who will replace Shavon, Terran and Walt.

I really like the ability that Pinder has and I think 2 years at Sunrise Christian is awesome for him. I think it will help immensely.

[hhcmatt]

I like Tai and think he can be a very good b1g guard, not Terran good, but a good player. 

 

I think Tai is a summer away from being Terran good.

[lanigan123]

Terran good, really? I see him being good, but I dont see him scoring at that level. I think he can be an assist machine and have a better A/T than Terran, I just dont see the 18 a game. What makes you say that?

[GATA]

Terran good, really? I see him being good, but I dont see him scoring at that level. I think he can be an assist machine and have a better A/T than Terran, I just dont see the 18 a game. What makes you say that?

 

An assist machine? Webster doesn't have any point guard skills to speak of at the moment.

[hhcmatt]

Terran good, really? I see him being good, but I dont see him scoring at that level. I think he can be an assist machine and have a better A/T than Terran, I just dont see the 18 a game. What makes you say that?

 

To me, "Terran good" isn't averaging X points per game.  It's about being a matchup nightmare.

 

"Terran good" is where you're capable of taking it to the hole, can draw contact, and have a decent outside shot.

Tai has shown he can take it to the hole and draw contact as a freshman.  He just needs to work on that shot of his and he's going to be a matchup nightmare.

 

He's never going to be an assist machine though that's because Miles doesn't run an offense that generates assist machines.

[Cybrrmonky]

Let's just keep in mind Terran was a 3 ppg scorer at Texas Tech.  So who knows who could or couldn't develop under Miles.

 

But that being said, In the history of Husker hoops guys like Terran come around once every 10 years (maybe).  If Terran sticks around he could be the G.O.A.T as far as Husker Hoops goes.

[lanigan123]

I think Tai's best assist is his vision and his passing while driving. The motion offense should generate a good number of assists.

[lanigan123]

One thing I though of is we should be recruiting as well as like teams and where we want to finish in the league.

[Norm Peterson]

Our offense generates a lot of baskets with guys dribbling around screens and driving hard to the rack. Those baskets dont come off of assists. Doesn't mean its not as good as a basket preceded by a pass. What Dimes said is correct.

[uneblinstu]

One thing I though of is we should be recruiting as well as like teams and where we want to finish in the league.

You mean, like dressing for the job you'd like to have?

[lanigan123]

Exactly. Like w Hammond being offered by OU etc. Look at the offer list and see if we are like schools. We shouldn't have many head to head battles w lower teams.

[TheKamdyMan]

Exactly. Like w Hammond being offered by OU etc. Look at the offer list and see if we are like schools. We shouldn't have many head to head battles w lower teams.

 

problem with that theory is if youre a football fan using this theory with basketball you will be let down.  With limited scholarships there are many years a team will not need a specific position.  So unlike football where every team wants a CB or LB, a basketball team may not need a PG for a year so they wont offer as many scholarships in total.  So its definitely harder to judge when comparing but you can get a decent idea.  Of course theres time like Serj with Ga Tech, Providence, Minnesota, Vandy etc that dont pan out.

[lanigan123]

I get that. It has less to do with position and more to do with quality. Remember Doc's classes? We need to recruit B1G quality kids. Regardless of position, so if you need a SF and a PG, you are going after kids that are sought by other comparable schools.

[uneblinstu]

I still come back to this. Establishing this is more important than who we're competing with for recruits. Understanding this goes a long way to identifying who is right for your program.

Honestly, I want the program to have an identity. Establish that and recruit to it.

 

I've heard it said before that when your most talented player is your hardest worker, that usually means good things for the team as a whole. Right now, that's the case. It's the case at Creighton, too. If that continues for the Huskers, the next two years are gonna be spectacular. If that rubs off on Tai, that would be nice, too. Find more kids like that, establish your identity. Recruit the most talented kids you can to it. (see Wisconsin)

[lanigan123]

I read something recently where Miles said he looks for athletic ability to play at this level and then basketball ability at B1G level. I think the idea to recruit to a system is something that Creighton did under Dana ball. I don't think it works at this level. U can seek character traits, etc. Miles is very straight forward man and motion.

[uneblinstu]

I read something recently where Miles said he looks for athletic ability to play at this level and then basketball ability at B1G level. I think the idea to recruit to a system is something that Creighton did under Dana ball. I don't think it works at this level. U can seek character traits, etc. Miles is very straight forward man and motion.

Beilein recruits to a system. He's running basically the same thing he ran at WVU. Izzo's recruited to a system for years. So has Bo Ryan. Those guys have won at a very high level by establishing a system, or perhaps you'd prefer to use identity. I think they're somewhat interchangeable in this context, and as they won they've gotten better and better players to plug into it. There's always going to be some adaptation as players come and go, it's not necessarily going to look the same year to year, but your principles and mentality shouldn't be that fluid. Establish those, recruit to it.

[Section_316]

If we used this plan we wouldn't have shavon