How do you manage a big class?

[Norm Peterson]

I put this in the recruiting page for a variety of reasons although it could go on the main page too, I suppose.

 

If I was the head coach, I would think I'd about have to be forecasting my recruiting needs well in advance based on what I'm losing to graduation the year those recruits would be heading into their sophomore year, just so that there's some continuity and so that you're not expecting true freshmen to take the place of graduating seniors.  You probably want at least sophomores if not juniors.  

 

Graduating classes and recruiting classes correspond.  So, the 2014 graduating class (Gallegos) will be replaced by the 2014 recruiting class (Hammond).

 

Looking at the databases Dimes put together (hat tip, young man), we have a huge graduating event coming up in 2016.  In weather or natural events, it's roughly the equivalent of a tsunami.  You have roughly 40% of the roster turning over at the end of the '15-'16 season.  Right now, as things stand, we would lose Shields, Parker, Vucetic, Petteway and Pitchford.  If we add in Deng Deng to the '14 recruiting class or perhaps the Wittington kid changes his commit, that would be roughly half of the roster turning over in one year, 2016.  

 

That's a hell of a hit to absorb all at once.  And you bring in a whole bunch of brand new guys for the '16-'17 season in which, I daresay, we'd be looking at the same kinds of issues of guys trying to figure out their roles, etc., that we're dealing with in Miles 2.0.  Except that would be Miles 5.0.

 

I think in order to buffer against that tsunami, we have to make judicious use of our available scholarships.  And I guess what I'm saying is that we need to make either the '14 or '15 recruiting class larger by whittling down the '16 graduating class just a wee little bit.  I didn't really like it when Doc and Collier did it but fortunately our APR seems to be OK.  I think we're going to have to oversign this year, probably.   Sorry, but we need the spot.

[Huskerpapa]

Good points Norm, can't say I disagree.  At this point, we are trying to build a competitive roster which is tough in its on right.  Yet, when you become so "class" heavy it could create issues down the road.

 

That said, it is amazing what a couple freshmen can accomplish these days.  We have not really experienced having the "best of the best" come through our doors.  We now seem to have some pretty darn good players come in and they are helping this year.  But what happens when those "top" players visit...and then something amazing happens..they decide to come here.  That would tend to heal the wounds of the roster turnover in 2016...

[lanigan123]

You are correct and that why you hear the rumors about Benny and Sergej. It's my opinion that Sergej likely won't be back next year if they can get another big in the class like the guy from Brittain. That's why I'm not as high on deng deng. Greg is a different story. Anyway you could get rid or Sergej this year and Benny maybe next and replace em w young guys.

[Silverbacked1]

Can't see Benny going any where.

Will need him for his senior year as Biggs will be gone and we would only have Tai at point.

Plus he has shown, in my opinion, that he helps this team.

David could be on the bubble, but do you tell a senior that has started quite a few games in his career good bye, thanks, but see ya?

I know I couldn't tell him. But then it isn't my job so...

[hskr4life]

You are correct and that why you hear the rumors about Benny and Sergej. It's my opinion that Sergej likely won't be back next year if they can get another big in the class like the guy from Brittain. That's why I'm not as high on deng deng. Greg is a different story. Anyway you could get rid or Sergej this year and Benny maybe next and replace em w young guys.

 

If Benny is still here after this year, he will probably be here the full 4 years.  Benny will have the same role the next two years as this year, and if he is ok with that, then he will hang around.

[hskr4life]

Which is not a bad thing at all in my opinion!

[tbowman]

Honest question, why is this a big deal?  Especially at Nebraska?

 

Why not make a nice run with a top heavy, senior laden team (Miami last year) and then take the hit the next season or two?

 

The idea of consistently reloading and being good is nice, but NU has been so bad for long that I would settle for a big year every now and then surrounded by some lesser seasons. 

[Huskerpapa]

Honest question, why is this a big deal?  Especially at Nebraska?

 

Why not make a nice run with a top heavy, senior laden team (Miami last year) and then take the hit the next season or two?

 

The idea of consistently reloading and being good is nice, but NU has been so bad for long that I would settle for a big year every now and then surrounded by some lesser seasons. 

 

Building a team is not a bad thing for certain locations and universities, but I do not think that the practice facility and arena were built for a one-year wonder team.  They were built so that Nebraska could develop a program.  A winning program. 

[bobcat402]

this benny leaving talk needs to end, if this team doesn't want to utilize his services, of quickness, on ball toughness, and ability to get in the lane without hesitation...ill show you a team that will live up the its preseason rankings for the next few years, last time i checked biggs isnt setting the world on fire, and we need Benny, and he has contributed....Sergj on the other hand....

[Norm Peterson]

I think Benny stays.  I think Benny has a role, limited though it might be.  He's a very good on-ball defender and doesn't make a lot of mistakes.  He's really good in the open court cutting through the defense and slashing to the rim.  Half court, not so much.  But he's not about Benny, but instead has shown a solid willingness to do whatever he can to help, even in a reserve role.  Benny has a role and likely stays.

 

We cannot afford to let a scholarship sit in the current sophomore class with someone who is just a place-saver, however.  That class is too big.  Tbowman, I'm not talking about making significant, wholesale changes to the roster.  I'm talking about minor surgery.  I think if Serge was a junior right now like Rivers, you probably let him stick it out.

 

But I just think Miles needs to have the flexibility to be able to offer an additional spot for either '14 or '15 than what we'll have with natural attrition.  And this is necessary to offset the wholesale roster changes that will naturally occur when the current sophomore class completes their eligibility.  And, to be honest, I'd rather offer it to a HS senior for '14 if someone worthy was still available.

[Hooper]

I don't believe Benny's going anywhere, and I'm fine with that, because he's night and day better this year than he was last year, and he adds value as a reserve guard. He's earned his scholarship in my view. Vooch, on the other hand, is a hopeless case, and he needs to move on after this year. If we replace Vooch with a JUCO transfer, then we exchange one player with two years of eligibility remaining for another, for a net gain of zero juniors.

 

Even so, I agree that we still ideally don't want a 5-man recruiting class at Nebraska. If we were Duke or Kansas, it wouldn't be as big a deal, but for a program that's still trying to make a name for itself, it's an awful lot to ask to expect the staff to go out and land 5 guys who are good enough to really play winning B1G basketball. It's frankly hard enough to land 2-3. Also, the state of Nebraska isn't likely to offer any help whatsoever.

 

I don't believe we could afford to pass on a player like Deng just because we don't want to deal with a 5-man recruiting class two years down the road (and I'm pretty sure you agree). We just don't appear to be in a position to get a comparable high school player at this point. If Deng commits, then that pretty much spells doom for Vooch, because there's no way in hell they'd set themselves up to carry 6 juniors into 2014-2015.

 

I suspect we'll replace Vooch with a junior like Deng, and then use the other scholarship on either a grad student, a JUCO with soph. status or a high school player.

 

Class balancing is extremely important, but it's a secondary concern relative to acquiring the best talent we can, through whichever avenues are available, and regardless of class status (within reason). The reality is that we could replace Vooch with a JUCO and go into 2014-2015 with the same number of juniors on the roster, but getting down to only 4 would require Parker to move on, and I just don't see that happening at this point. It's not a desirable situation to be in, but this is the hand we've been dealt.

[NUdiehard]

My question with Deng is whether he fills our true need.  He is listed at 6'8" and 215 lbs. That is not exactly what I call a "big man".  For instance, Shavon is listed at 6'7" and 219 lbs.  Heck, even Petteway is 209 lbs, so Deng is barely bigger than Petteway.  Remember, we are "one big man short".  I think it is asking too much to expect Hammond, as a true freshman, to fulfill that role as our true big man next year.  We know Vooch won't be that guy.  That is why I would like to see us get a juco true big man or a transfer big man so that we can have a "complete" team starting next year.  If that is not possible, maybe NU would be better off finding another quality freshman and continue to build for the future.  I am tired of always being one or two positions short of a good team.

 

With that said, if Miles is prepared to open a couple spots after the season, then he could sign Deng and still possibly get another big and another freshman.  If we are all honest, it would make the most sense to replace Rivers with Deng so that he could still sign two more players (I am assuming Vooch is gone already), but it is unclear whether Miles will do that.

[NUdiehard]

Honest question, why is this a big deal?  Especially at Nebraska?

 

Why not make a nice run with a top heavy, senior laden team (Miami last year) and then take the hit the next season or two?

 

The idea of consistently reloading and being good is nice, but NU has been so bad for long that I would settle for a big year every now and then surrounded by some lesser seasons. 

If NU could be a sweet 16 or final 4 team doing this, then absolutely.  But if all we are talking about is "making" the tourney, or maybe winning one game, then no IMO. And I don't think a guy like Deng is an elite enough player to turn us into a sweet 16 team. 

 

I want to get to a point where we are are consistently getting into the tourney, and then move up from there to "winning" in the tourney.   

[Hooper]

My question with Deng is whether he fills our true need.  He is listed at 6'8" and 215 lbs. That is not exactly what I call a "big man".  For instance, Shavon is listed at 6'7" and 219 lbs.  Heck, even Petteway is 209 lbs, so Deng is barely bigger than Petteway.  Remember, we are "one big man short".  I think it is asking too much to expect Hammond, as a true freshman, to fulfill that role as our true big man next year.  We know Vooch won't be that guy.  That is why I would like to see us get a juco true big man or a transfer big man so that we can have a "complete" team starting next year.  If that is not possible, maybe NU would be better off finding another quality freshman and continue to build for the future.  I am tired of always being one or two positions short of a good team.

 

With that said, if Miles is prepared to open a couple spots after the season, then he could sign Deng and still possibly get another big and another freshman.  If we are all honest, it would make the most sense to replace Rivers with Deng so that he could still sign two more players (I am assuming Vooch is gone already), but it is unclear whether Miles will do that.

 

I don't believe this team has just one true need. Deng doesn't bring a big physical presence inside, but he brings great length defensively. Watch this video from a year ago and ask yourself if you feel that Deng (#20 in black) wouldn't make us a better team with him on the roster. I'm not saying he'd start, but I'd love to have him.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dG4lenxZw 

 

Also, I know he's a couple inches taller, but Adam Woodbury came in and started as a true freshman for the Hawkeyes. I have to believe that Hammond will give us immediate help inside at the 5. I don't see why he can't give this team 15+ minutes per game next year if we're unsuccessful in landing an older big man.

 

I'd like to add Deng and then find another big man who could help immediately. He obviously couldn't be another JUCO guy with 2 years of eligibility left. It would have to be a 3-for-3 JUCO, grad transfer or really mature high school big man.

[cornfed24-7]

I just don't see the rationale. If we have a chance to make the tourney AND get a win I take that scenario no matter what. We have NEVER done that. I get the classes may be unbalanced. But if Miles is worth his salt by the time that unbalanced class are Juniors (2 down seasons if no one/most do not redshirt) then we should be in the tourney again which would be 2 tournament appearances in 4 years maybe 5. I think that is a vast improvement to where we are now. Do I want more? Of course. But come on, we have to crawl before we walk.

[Huskerpapa]

I just don't see the rationale. If we have a chance to make the tourney AND get a win I take that scenario no matter what. We have NEVER done that. I get the classes may be unbalanced. But if Miles is worth his salt by the time that unbalanced class are Juniors (2 down seasons if no one/most do not redshirt) then we should be in the tourney again which would be 2 tournament appearances in 4 years maybe 5. I think that is a vast improvement to where we are now. Do I want more? Of course. But come on, we have to crawl before we walk.

 

I know that this is simply a hypothetical question.  Yet if you think about it, you have to think in terms of building a prrogram rather than a team.  If you simply build a one-off team, you will only get the pleasure of one year.  If you build a program, you get the rest of your lifetime of quality play, wins and perhaps championships...it reminds me of the story of the two bulls.  One was old and wise, and the other was young and enthusiastic.  They were on top of a hill and saw a lovely herd of cows below them.  The young bull turns to the old bull and said, "let's run down there and get us one of those cows!"  The older bull looked at his young friend, smiled, and said, "naw, I will just mosey down there and have them all!!" 

[REDZONEDAN]

 

 

Also, I know he's a couple inches taller, but Adam Woodbury came in and started as a true freshman for the Hawkeyes. I have to believe that Hammond will give us immediate help inside at the 5. I don't see why he can't give this team 15+ minutes per game next year if we're unsuccessful in landing an older big man.

 

I just hope Hammond's vertical jump is more than 12 inches.

[cornfed24-7]

I just don't see the rationale. If we have a chance to make the tourney AND get a win I take that scenario no matter what. We have NEVER done that. I get the classes may be unbalanced. But if Miles is worth his salt by the time that unbalanced class are Juniors (2 down seasons if no one/most do not redshirt) then we should be in the tourney again which would be 2 tournament appearances in 4 years maybe 5. I think that is a vast improvement to where we are now. Do I want more? Of course. But come on, we have to crawl before we walk.

I know that this is simply a hypothetical question. Yet if you think about it, you have to think in terms of building a prrogram rather than a team. If you simply build a one-off team, you will only get the pleasure of one year. If you build a program, you get the rest of your lifetime of quality play, wins and perhaps championships...it reminds me of the story of the two bulls. One was old and wise, and the other was young and enthusiastic. They were on top of a hill and saw a lovely herd of cows below them. The young bull turns to the old bull and said, "let's run down there and get us one of those cows!" The older bull looked at his young friend, smiled, and said, "naw, I will just mosey down there and have them all!!"

[cornfed24-7]

DAMN I messed up quoting you CWG trying to use my phone! I completely agree. But where I differ is I think part of building a program is just getting over the hump of getting one tournament win. I think at this point and time a tournament appearance/and win would do more for building our program than trying to even out the classes.

[lanigan123]

I don't think Benny adds that much to the team on 2 years. While he offers some good skills he is also a offensive and defensive liability. So you would rather have a scholarship on a junior role player than a contending legitimate big ten player? While every team will have role players, you rarely offer a guy who has a second team ceiling.

[hskr4life]

I don't think Benny adds that much to the team on 2 years. While he offers some good skills he is also a offensive and defensive liability. So you would rather have a scholarship on a junior role player than a contending legitimate big ten player? While every team will have role players, you rarely offer a guy who has a second team ceiling

 

On the Offensive point, I think he has improved.  He is not a stand out, no, but he has improved.

 

On the Defensive point.... what??  He is not a liability on the defensive end.  His speed and quickness help, espicially when the other team has quick guards.  Will he ever be a stud... no, but he is a valuable piece to this team, though his role is little.

[Silverbacked1]

Tim himself has said many times that Benny is our best on ball defender.

And now that he is healthy he does better at the offensive end.

Good change of pace and doesn't hurt us when he comes in for his 10-12 mins a game.

[lanigan123]

Yes on ball defender doesn't mean he isn't a liability on defensive end. He is likely found being posted up. In certain situations he is needed, when we want on ball pressure. Offensively what has he shown? If he is in transition he can score at the hoop? What's he doing when he has to make a shot. While I appreciate what he offers, I would take a recruit like Tai, or prince as examples over keeping someone like Benny. Just my opinion.

[Silverbacked1]

Actually I think that Tai was over hyped. Just me.

[TheKamdyMan]

Actually I think that Tai was over hyped. Just me.

 

I think the talk and "rankings" people proclaimed about him were all about his potential.  If you look at the majority of foreign players that come over they have a big learning curve, especially if they didnt play any basketball over here before college.  I think thats the reason why you see guys like Bolden, Simmons, Pinder etc coming over a year or two early to get acclimated to the style of play in the US so they dont have such a dramatic acclimation process to overcome.