Defense?

[Navin R. Johnson]

Is anybody as surprised as I am that we have not tried to use a zone defense this year?  I understand it takes effort to defend in a zone and it allows open shots (which our doubling the post in our man D gave up often) but when you have, to me, the worst defensive team in recent Husker history, why not give it a try?  One thing we have is length with our wings (McGowens, Edwards, Wilcher, Mayan) that can make a zone effective.  We have guys that are a step slow (McGowens, Wilcher, Wil before injury) which a zone would give help to against the drive.  Boarding would be an issue in a zone, but it is not like we are very good at that either in a man. (although we seem to do better lately)  It would prevent teams from just throwing the ball to their big on the block for an easy look.  I always thought you can run out of a zone easier as well because your guys are in there lanes and balanced when a shot goes up.  Maybe I'm just tired of our D not getting stops in crucial situations and it seems the other teams always get open looks when they run a set play, over and over.  Watching Bryce lose his man off a simple screen and Wilcher giving up the lane because he is slow on close outs drives me nuts.  Both can be the offensive weapons we need though and maybe a zone will cover up these deficiencies.  Why not try it?

[Nebrasketball1979]

4 minutes ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

Is anybody as surprised as I am that we have not tried to use a zone defense this year?  I understand it takes effort to defend in a zone and it allows open shots (which our doubling the post in our man D gave up often) but when you have, to me, the worst defensive team in recent Husker history, why not give it a try?  One thing we have is length with our wings (McGowens, Edwards, Wilcher, Mayan) that can make a zone effective.  We have guys that are a step slow (McGowens, Wilcher, Wil before injury) which a zone would give help to against the drive.  Boarding would be an issue in a zone, but it is not like we are very good at that either in a man. (although we seem to do better lately)  It would prevent teams from just throwing the ball to their big on the block for an easy look.  I always thought you can run out of a zone easier as well because your guys are in there lanes and balanced when a shot goes up.  Maybe I'm just tired of our D not getting stops in crucial situations and it seems the other teams always get open looks when they run a set play, over and over.  Watching Bryce lose his man off a simple screen and Wilcher giving up the lane because he is slow on close outs drives me nuts.  Both can be the offensive weapons we need though and maybe a zone will cover up these deficiencies.  Why not try it?

 

I've long been a proponent of trying something different with this team - from starting lineups (we haven't tinkered nearly enough in my opinion) to offensive and defensive philosophies.  I really enjoyed when Miles would throw the 1-3-1 at teams for a few possessions.  It usually was good for 1-2 bad possessions from the offense - either in a turnover or bad shot with the shot clock winding down.  Miles was able to find success in this because he typically had an uber athletic guy like Roby at the top creating difficult passing angles.  We don't really have that on this team.  Bryce might be the best bet but he doesn't seem to have the "want to".  Anyways, I know the coaches have dabbled with a regular 2-3 zone this year but it always looked really clunky.  We rotate poorly in our help man defense and our rotations looked even worse in a zone.  I'm sure this would improve if it was practiced and emphasized in practice.  However, I don't think it matters what defense we run if we don't have 5 guys on the court that take pride in it.   Getting Trey back certainly helps and hopefully that sets the tone for others on the team to follow.

[basketballjones]

Man, you'd think they'd have something to switch to when they give up a couple runs here and there without scoring. 

[Crush78]

55 minutes ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

Is anybody as surprised as I am that we have not tried to use a zone defense this year?  I understand it takes effort to defend in a zone and it allows open shots (which our doubling the post in our man D gave up often) but when you have, to me, the worst defensive team in recent Husker history, why not give it a try?  One thing we have is length with our wings (McGowens, Edwards, Wilcher, Mayan) that can make a zone effective.  We have guys that are a step slow (McGowens, Wilcher, Wil before injury) which a zone would give help to against the drive.  Boarding would be an issue in a zone, but it is not like we are very good at that either in a man. (although we seem to do better lately)  It would prevent teams from just throwing the ball to their big on the block for an easy look.  I always thought you can run out of a zone easier as well because your guys are in there lanes and balanced when a shot goes up.  Maybe I'm just tired of our D not getting stops in crucial situations and it seems the other teams always get open looks when they run a set play, over and over.  Watching Bryce lose his man off a simple screen and Wilcher giving up the lane because he is slow on close outs drives me nuts.  Both can be the offensive weapons we need though and maybe a zone will cover up these deficiencies.  Why not try it?

Tried zone on a few occasions this season, and it has made our regular defense look stout.

[kldm64]

Doc is not a big fan of playing zone but I agree they need to at least switch to it once in a while.  One could argue that as a reason why Doc should not be retained on the coaching staff for next year.

[hhcmatt]

We have played zone. We played zone last night.

[MichHusker]

6 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

We have played zone. We played zone last night.

If i remember correctly they drilled a wide open three after about two passes

[Navin R. Johnson]

35 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

We have played zone. We played zone last night.

 

I can't remember being in a zone for very long, just a possession here and there.  Sometimes you have to play the percentages and stay in a zone to see if it can work even after giving up some easy hoops.  I understand a man defensive minded coach like Doc probably would not have the patience to stay in a zone.

[jason2486]

4 minutes ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

 

I can't remember being in a zone for very long, just a possession here and there.  Sometimes you have to play the percentages and stay in a zone to see if it can work even after giving up some easy hoops.  I understand a man defensive minded coach like Doc probably would not have the patience to stay in a zone.

Agreed, we switch out of zone way too quickly. I thought Miles did that with the 1-3-1 a lot. One or two bad possessions and coaches want to go back to man. What about the 70 points given up in man?! Stick with it for a whole game or 2 and see of it works better. We've lost 13 or 19 playing mainly man.

[Nebrasketball1979]

3 minutes ago, jason2486 said:

Agreed, we switch out of zone way too quickly. I thought Miles did that with the 1-3-1 a lot. One or two bad possessions and coaches want to go back to man. What about the 70 points given up in man?! Stick with it for a whole game or 2 and see of it works better. We've lost 13 or 19 playing mainly man.

 

We do not look disciplined enough to play zone, which really falls on the coaches and likely a lack of emphasis on it at practice.  Again, our defensive rotations in man are very slow which doesn't bode well for zone.  My opinion is that we rotate poorly due to a lack of communication and want to.  Zone won't fix that.

[jason2486]

8 minutes ago, Nebrasketball1979 said:

 

We do not look disciplined enough to play zone, which really falls on the coaches and likely a lack of emphasis on it at practice.  Again, our defensive rotations in man are very slow which doesn't bode well for zone.  My opinion is that we rotate poorly due to a lack of communication and want to.  Zone won't fix that.

I was aiming that more at basketball teams in general. There is an over-reliance on man defense in my opinion. 

[49r]

1 hour ago, jason2486 said:

Agreed, we switch out of zone way too quickly. I thought Miles did that with the 1-3-1 a lot. One or two bad possessions and coaches want to go back to man. What about the 70 points given up in man?! Stick with it for a whole game or 2 and see of it works better. We've lost 13 or 19 playing mainly man.

 

JIM BOEHEIM AIN'T WALKING THROUGH THAT DOOR!

[thrasher31]

They've played zone in games this year. I remember the purdue game specifically as one that it looked semi competent in. Last game they mixed it in also. 

 

I think it works in certain situations, but it's not something that they can stick with for long stretches. 

[Huskerpapa]

A thousand times over, the defensive schematics matter, but more importantly it is the jimmies and joes playing it.

One person/player breaks down and the whole team pays the price.

Last night on the first or second possession, we are given a great effort on the defensive end and Lat stands almost straight up and his man drives by him to his right, DW comes over to help and is whistled for the foul.  There were probably 20-25 similar instances last night alone. 

I remember watching a Danny Nee practice once, and Depries Owens kept breaking down on defense.  After it happened a second or third time Owens was on the sideline watching...while holding ten pound weights with his outstretched arms.  He went back in about five minutes later and it happened again.  I don't know about anyone else there but my bottom half puckered up as he was ripped by Danny and then back to the sideline for the same (but a bit longer) punishment.   When he made it back in...he got it right.  A somewhat brutal punishment but it got results. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Huskerpapa

[hhcmatt]

12 hours ago, Huskerpapa said:

There were probably 20-25 similar instances last night alone. 

 

The last possession of the first half where TJD scored on all 5 of our defenders with less than 5 seconds left stood out to me.