Yori vs. Williams

[Bugeaters1]

With all of the tlak about williams being on her last leg with the Huskers. I thought I would do some comparison of records, in their first four years.

I'm going to give you the year, the round that the team finished in the conference tourament, NCAA or WNIT and final record. This will probably bring some old wounds, but I thought I would put out there that williams isn't doing that bad as far as the BIG tourament is concerned. 

I'll start with Coach Yori.

02-03     1st rnd                          8-20

03-04     1st rnd    2nd WNIT    18-12

04-05     2nd rnd   2nd WNIT    18-14

05-06     2nd rnd   3rd WNIT     18-13

---------------------------------------------------------------

Then Williams

16-17      1st rnd                         7-22

17-18      2nd rnd  1st NCAA     21-11

18-19      1st rnd                         14-16

19-20      1st rnd                         17-13 Season is going.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the rest of Yori's years

06-07      1st rnd     1st NCAA     22-10

07-08      1st rnd     2nd NCAA    21-12

08-09      1st rnd     1st WNIT      15-16

09-10       2nd rnd   3rd NCAA     32-2

10-11       1st rnd                           13-18

11-12       4th rnd    1st NCAA      24-9    This was the first year in the BIG, And the Huskers were in the Chamionship game of the BIG tourament.

12-13       2nd rnd    3rd NCAA     25-9

13-14       4th rnd     2nd NCAA    26-7     The Huskers won the BIG tourament 

14-15       2nd rnd    1st NCAA     21-11

15-16       1st rnd     1st WNIT     18-13

 

[Tom Jones]

That's interesting.  Their W-L records are closer than I would have guessed.  One big difference tho is the outlook for Yori at the end of her 4th year - by which I mean mostly the talent that would be on hand for the next year. And that portended CY's ability to recruit in the future.  Ford, Hardy, Griffith, Montgomery, Paige, and Turner, and Aubry.  I don't see a crew like that playing for AW next year. 

 

[redsteve]

I'm not on the dump Williams bandwagon. It's too early to bounce  her out. Coach gets paid the big bucks to run the team, and make fixes as she see's fit.. 

 

It just seems to me, some changes and improvements need to be made. We may not be able to make progress operating just as we are. ....must improve....and get to the big dance. 

 

I can think of lots of things we would do and purse. But...it's not my call. 

 

So...I'll eagerly wait and see what's in the news about women's Husker basketball over the off season. Moos meets with all the coaches in the off season, and reviews the team, and offers input. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by redsteve

[Tom Jones]

But where are my manners?  I should stated by saying, "thank you, Bugeaters for taking the time to do that research and then for reporting it"

[Bugeaters1]

13 minutes ago, Tom Jones said:

But where are my manners?  I should stated by saying, "thank you, Bugeaters for taking the time to do that research and then for reporting it"

No problem, I'm not the best typer. it took only about half hour to forty five minutes. another thing I found interesting was that Jeff Walz was on Paul Sandfords staff the second to last year that Sanderford was here.

[Omahusker]

If you consider the state of the program when Williams took over (winning tradition from Yori, talented roster, new facilities: PBA/Hendricks, and the fan support & attendance) she is underperforming. This wasn’t a rebuild like Scott Frost has on his hands. 
 

I have not been impressed with Williams development of the players that she inherited from Yori; and her own recruits (while still young) don’t appear to be future Big 10 champs. Hope they prove me wrong. Her philosophy of playing 10-12 girls in a game is confusing and takes the girls out of rhythm and flow.  Williams teams don’t have the same toughness and grit or discipline as Yori’s teams either.  Williams and her staff are nice people, I’m just not impressed with their results. 

[jessie]

7 hours ago, Omahusker said:

If you consider the state of the program when Williams took over (winning tradition from Yori, talented roster, new facilities: PBA/Hendricks, and the fan support & attendance) she is underperforming. This wasn’t a rebuild like Scott Frost has on his hands. 
 

I have not been impressed with Williams development of the players that she inherited from Yori; and her own recruits (while still young) don’t appear to be future Big 10 champs. Hope they prove me wrong. Her philosophy of playing 10-12 girls in a game is confusing and takes the girls out of rhythm and flow.  Williams teams don’t have the same toughness and grit or discipline as Yori’s teams either.  Williams and her staff are nice people, I’m just not impressed with their results. 

Said perfectly Omahusker.  It seems there is no accountability or discipline for missed block out after missed blockout and just a lack of toughness and willingness to win.  In the tourney we looked like a team that just started practicing, offense still stagnant and everyone standing around.  There is certainly no improvement with most of the players.  Why would they when they know no matter how they play they'll still get to start and get their minutes. Seems no matter how poorly an individual might be playing, there's no adjustment in the lineup or what we are doing on the floor.  I mean, how many poor 3rd quarter starts and perfomances do we have to have in order to try something else(different lineup, defense SOMETHING), but nothing.  Starting to think Amy is just not capable of adapting to the game and making adjustments on the fly like BIG coaches should be able to do at this level. Watching the BIG tourney this year it was clear that the other teams just seem to play with more effort, grit and determination.  Great point on too many substitutions.  Hard to keep momentum in a game when you're in and out so much.      

[12dozen]

I too am concerned regarding this staff. Player development is weak.  Recruiting?  Not to a level needed to compete, upper tier BIG.  The combination of mid level recruiting and little player development, is a recipe for disappointment.  

 

Point guard isn't the only position that has underachieved lately. I really feel bad for Kate.  She should be a star by now. I can't help 

but think, she'd be a force if coached by one of the other BIG staffs.  Sorry for the whining.

 

Maybe a run in the WNIT is still in the cards.  That could help.    

   

Edited March 11, 2020 by 12dozen

[HB]

55 minutes ago, 12dozen said:

 

 

Point guard isn't the only position that has underachieved lately. I really feel bad for Kate.  She should be a star by now. I can't help 

but think, she'd be a force if coached by one of the other BIG staffs.  Sorry for the whining.

 

   

 

Good points, but in fairness to Kate (and by extension, the coaches), she was FIrst Team All Big 10 defensive team.   In some corners, that constitutes being a "star", or at least a "force".    Particularly with our lack of ability to defend the drive.   She is an absolute stopper for all the paint attempts caused by poor man defense against the dribble-drive.  Her block numbers are off the charts.   Without her patrolling the paint on defense we would have given up 80+ points a game.   She changes the way teams prepare for us.  that's called a difference-maker.   I shudder to think how things would be (not that they've been very good) if she hadn't fallen into our laps late when the coach she signed with was fired.  

[12dozen]

10 hours ago, HB said:

 

Good points, but in fairness to Kate (and by extension, the coaches), she was FIrst Team All Big 10 defensive team.   In some corners, that constitutes being a "star", or at least a "force".    Particularly with our lack of ability to defend the drive.   She is an absolute stopper for all the paint attempts caused by poor man defense against the dribble-drive.  Her block numbers are off the charts.   Without her patrolling the paint on defense we would have given up 80+ points a game.   She changes the way teams prepare for us.  that's called a difference-maker.   I shudder to think how things would be (not that they've been very good) if she hadn't fallen into our laps late when the coach she signed with was fired.  

Not saying she doesn't contribute greatly.  Just my thoughts, she could be much better.  Her footwork, mobility, and defensive positioning could be much better. Foul trouble is a result.  She is constantly reaching.  Blocks are great, but not much help from the bench.  She is not the only player that could benefit from better positioning, footwork.  The next game we block out well, and limit offensive rebounds, might be the first in quite awhile.  I am thrilled Kate plays for us.  Just don't believe she has come close to reaching her potential.  And, I don't think it is her fault.   

Edited March 12, 2020 by 12dozen

[Tom Jones]

I believe she is an important asset to the team and I am glad we have her. But I also think she should be getting better.  In addition to all that is said above, i would add getting off her feet for rebounding AND trying to get some of those blocked shots to come back out onto the court rather than going out of bounds - which is kinda like just another offensive rebound agains us. 

[HB]

51 minutes ago, Tom Jones said:

I believe she is an important asset to the team and I am glad we have her. But I also think she should be getting better.  In addition to all that is said above, i would add getting off her feet for rebounding AND trying to get some of those blocked shots to come back out onto the court rather than going out of bounds - which is kinda like just another offensive rebound agains us. 

 

Pretty harsh.   Over a hundred blocks but you want to criticize her for style points on how she does them.   She's never gonna be a jumper.  All she does is stat up.   Plus, she is getting better.   Was way better this year than last.    People used to bitch about Dave Hoppen because he didn't jump.    Change too much about Kate and she would be at UConn.  

[Tom Jones]

i was focusing on the RESULT and IMPACT of the blocks, not the style.  I love to see her blocks. And I like the look of accomplishment on her face afterwards - especially when they result in a turnover and she turns to get to the offensive court

[12dozen]

37 minutes ago, HB said:

 

Pretty harsh.   Over a hundred blocks but you want to criticize her for style points on how she does them.   She's never gonna be a jumper.  All she does is stat up.   Plus, she is getting better.   Was way better this year than last.    People used to bitch about Dave Hoppen because he didn't jump.    Change too much about Kate and she would be at UConn.  

As a freshman, Kate averaged 9.9 points a game, 7 rebounds a game, and had 100 blocks.  Through 30 games this year, Kate averages 9.3 points a game, 7.2 rebounds, and has 101 blocks.  Great stats for sure.  Is she really getting better?  She did have a down year, by her standards, last year.  Glad she returned to form. Wishing her great success her senior year.

Edited March 11, 2020 by 12dozen

[Cazzie22]

Kate is a decent post player and we need her.  However, she lacks offensive skills and doesn’t contain the better post players in the league.  She was no match for Hillmon and the girl from Iowa toasted us.  Her blocked shots need to result in more possessions for us.  That being said, we are better off with her than without.

[HB]

We've kind of gotten off the thread topic.   But I was just wondering how Cain made the All Big 10 all-defensive team--one of only 5 players in the entire league--from both the coaches and media, if she has so many flaws.   Seems weird.

[12dozen]

2 hours ago, HB said:

We've kind of gotten off the thread topic.   But I was just wondering how Cain made the All Big 10 all-defensive team--one of only 5 players in the entire league--from both the coaches and media, if she has so many flaws.   Seems weird.

I'm not trying to be critical of Kate. I just used her as an example.  I'm questioning how effective this staff is at developing players.  The thread topic is Yori vs Williams.  When it comes to player development, I give Yori, and her staff, the edge.      

[HUD]

6 hours ago, Tom Jones said:

AND trying to get some of those blocked shots to come back out onto the court rather than going out of bounds - which is kinda like just another offensive rebound agains us. 

The only person that I ever saw that could do that on a consistent basis was Bill Russell.

[swmckewon]

Kate Cain has improved. no question. It isn’t her improvement -or lack thereof - that would be in question.

[12dozen]

1 hour ago, swmckewon said:

Kate Cain has improved. no question. It isn’t her improvement -or lack thereof - that would be in question.

Whitish?   Simon?  Maybe a couple of our sophomores?  Would they be better examples?   I appreciate the effort of every Nebraska athlete.  They deserve the best support possible.  A concern, shared by many on this site, is the general development of players by this staff.  Are we being unreasonable?  

[redsteve]

4 hours ago, 12dozen said:

Whitish?   Simon?  Maybe a couple of our sophomores?  Would they be better examples?   I appreciate the effort of every Nebraska athlete.  They deserve the best support possible.  A concern, shared by many on this site, is the general development of players by this staff.  Are we being unreasonable?  

 

Unreasonable ?  Covers a lot of ground. ...probably not unreasonable for most of us here....but our expectations are high, like most fans of any sport.

 

Even with a  good coach, some players reach the highest level of their own capabilities, and level off...doing what they can do. Everyone hits a certain cap...or level of abilities. 

Not everyone is an All American, and isn't going to be one.

 

Continue to wonder about recruiting...and obviously what is done coaching wise to improve players, and the play of the team. Like mentioned several times...suspect there could be some changes over the winter....would hope so anyway. But no crystal ball here. 

[rand909]

7 hours ago, redsteve said:

 

 

 

Even with a  good coach, some players reach the highest level of their own capabilities, and level off...doing what they can do. Everyone hits a certain cap...or level of abilities. 

Not everyone is an All American, and isn't going to be one.

 

 

Well, if it isn't a coaching problem that doesn't elevate skill level (because the kids have reached the "highest level of their own capabilities", then it must, therefore, be a recruiting problem.

[redsteve]

11 hours ago, rand909 said:

Well, if it isn't a coaching problem that doesn't elevate skill level (because the kids have reached the "highest level of their own capabilities", then it must, therefore, be a recruiting problem.

 

Pretty much misconstrued what I said....read it again.  And I will repeat in another way. ....players do not all have, or reach,  the same level of capabilities, no matter the coach. Are all NBA players the same as MIchael Jordon ? ....Of course not.   Why not?....bad coaching?

[tcp]

yori built in a top heavy big 12, with a crap bottom. the B1G isn't as good at the top, obviously, but is stronger thru the middle and now even the bottom is getting more serious. it's a tough roundball league.

 

that said, Williams is no Yori. You could see Connie's roster and recruiting improvements thru years 3 and 4 but this bunch? I dunno. 

 

Still think she's earned one more season, obviously, and hopefully that works out for her. If not, we can get a .500 coach almost anywhere. 

[12dozen]

55 minutes ago, redsteve said:

 

Pretty much misconstrued what I said....read it again.  And I will repeat in another way. ....players do not all have, or reach,  the same level of capabilities, no matter the coach. Are all NBA players the same as MIchael Jordon ? ....Of course not.   Why not?....bad coaching?

I agree, players come in with different levels of ability.  That is why recruiting is so critical.

 

I can not speak for others, only myself.  I have zero expectation of a player to reach All American level. We have had a few grace our University, but not many.  

 

I do expect most players level of play to improve from one year to the next.  If for no other reason, physical maturity and experience should result in marginal improvement from one year to the next.  I hope Amy finds success, but obviously, have some concerns.

 

I appreciate all who contribute to these scrolls.  We share an affinity for our Lady Huskers.  It is refreshing, we can have a civil discussion on this site.   That seldom happens in other Husker forums.         

      

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by 12dozen