Contract Extensions

[Blindcheck]

Contract Extensions

 

Why do you extend a contract of coach of your program. My opinions follow.

 

I think that Athletic Directors have allowed Agents to push them around and too many programs extend coaches because they feel they have to give the perception that their coach is in for the long haul.  I think that is the big lie that coaches and Agents have told their fans, recruits and Universities and just about everyone has bought it.

 

I believe you should only extend a coach when you want to keep a coach that is being pursued by other institutions.  I would give an example of Matt Campbell at Iowa State...Iowa state extended him contract but also raised the buyout to protect the University financially if Campbell is hired away from Iowa State.  

 

Giving a coach an extension and not receiving any more consideration (raising the coaches buyout or slashing the University's buyout) is not the prudent thing to do.

 

If it is true that recruiting is tougher when you have a shorter contract (i don't believe it is as big a deal as others do since most top players don't expect to spend 4 years in school anyway), I believe the ADs should tell coaches to suck it up and try harder...some places are harder to recruit because they are in Manhattan, Kansas...every school and coaches have pluses and Minuses.

 

I believe that Universities and Athletic departments have tremendous leverage in contract negotiations with coaches, but have been Bullied by agents over the last 20 years and have ceded much of the power in contract negotiations to the coaches side of the ledger.....there are only 80 great jobs in college basketball and coaches often only get 1 shot at those jobs, yet they seem to continue to get contract extensions when no other University is going to hire them away.

 

The biggest example I see is the university of Iowa...They have tied up 10 years of University dollars in football and 6 years in basketball for 2 coaches that I doubt have other options anywhere near what the University is paying them....Does it help them in Recruiting, I don't think so....

 

One last thing...in basketball, if you fire your coach, most likely the new coach will blow up the roster anyway, so the I don't buy the defense that not extending the contract will affect the next coach.

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

Iowa basketball has at least one Rivals 4-star committed in every class from 2016 to 2019.

[hhcmatt]

12 minutes ago, Blindcheck said:

The biggest example I see is the university of Iowa...They have tied up 10 years of University dollars in football and 6 years in basketball for 2 coaches that I doubt have other options anywhere near what the University is paying them....Does it help them in Recruiting, I don't think so....

 

Iowa has at least one kid who went there instead of here (or some other place) because Fran is going to be there for the foreseeable future.

Not all kids think like this; some do. 

[nustudent]

Extensions are given to avoid negative recruiting.   Kids don’t look at contract lengths until they are pointed out by the other schools that are recruiting them 

[Blindcheck]

2 hours ago, nustudent said:

Extensions are given to avoid negative recruiting.   Kids don’t look at contract lengths until they are pointed out by the other schools that are recruiting them 

I don't doubt that happens...but as an AD, do you think it is worth tying up an extra Million or 2 dollars just so some 18 year old kid won't be told that Coach Miles is only under contract through 2021?

 

I don't think it is...and I would expect my coaches to be able to overcome those type of objections.

 

 

[Donkey]

30 minutes ago, Blindcheck said:

I don't doubt that happens...but as an AD, do you think it is worth tying up an extra Million or 2 dollars just so some 18 year old kid won't be told that Coach Miles is only under contract through 2021?

 

I don't think it is...and I would expect my coaches to be able to overcome those type of objections.

 

 

 

Robin Washut has reported of at least one recruit who was set to sign with Nebraska but backed off when it was pointed out that Miles contract, at the time, expired in 2020. Washut has not identified the the kid but has stated the recruit signed with a BIG school. Speculation is that the recruit was Eric Hunter who went to Purdue. Opine all you want, but I trust Robin Washut’s reporting. Coaching stability matters to kids. The easiest way to overcome it is by having coaches signed for 5 year periods. 

[nustudent]

1 hour ago, Blindcheck said:

I don't doubt that happens...but as an AD, do you think it is worth tying up an extra Million or 2 dollars just so some 18 year old kid won't be told that Coach Miles is only under contract through 2021?

 

I don't think it is...and I would expect my coaches to be able to overcome those type of objections.

 

 

 

It’s a gamble but if those 1 or 2 recruits every cycle pan out and make you a winner and go to the dance, it’s absolutely worth it 

[HuskerCager]

I'm not overly concerned about the length of the contract.  But am more concerned the impact it will have on finding the next assistant coach more than the next player.

[Art Vandalay]

3 hours ago, Blindcheck said:

I don't doubt that happens...but as an AD, do you think it is worth tying up an extra Million or 2 dollars just so some 18 year old kid won't be told that Coach Miles is only under contract through 2021?

 

I don't think it is...and I would expect my coaches to be able to overcome those type of objections.

 

 

 

It is a no confidence flag from the AD and of course it hurts a lot. Coaches are smart and will constantly be in a recruits ear about it and that plants a lot of doubt in kids/parents mind.

 

What is so frustrating is if it is just about the money just reduce his buyout and extend the years, that happens a lot. So if you do end up having to fire him you are not out a lot more money. it was pretty simple and I am surprise by what Moos did. Hurts the program with or without Miles but doing it this way.

[swmckewon]

On 4/20/2018 at 3:31 PM, Norm Peterson said:

Iowa basketball has at least one Rivals 4-star committed in every class from 2016 to 2019.

Iowa also made six straight postseasons, including three straight NCAAs. 

 

 

[swmckewon]

On 4/20/2018 at 3:21 PM, Blindcheck said:

Contract Extensions

 

Why do you extend a contract of coach of your program. My opinions follow.

 

I think that Athletic Directors have allowed Agents to push them around and too many programs extend coaches because they feel they have to give the perception that their coach is in for the long haul.  I think that is the big lie that coaches and Agents have told their fans, recruits and Universities and just about everyone has bought it.

 

I believe you should only extend a coach when you want to keep a coach that is being pursued by other institutions.  I would give an example of Matt Campbell at Iowa State...Iowa state extended him contract but also raised the buyout to protect the University financially if Campbell is hired away from Iowa State.  

 

Giving a coach an extension and not receiving any more consideration (raising the coaches buyout or slashing the University's buyout) is not the prudent thing to do.

 

If it is true that recruiting is tougher when you have a shorter contract (i don't believe it is as big a deal as others do since most top players don't expect to spend 4 years in school anyway), I believe the ADs should tell coaches to suck it up and try harder...some places are harder to recruit because they are in Manhattan, Kansas...every school and coaches have pluses and Minuses.

 

I believe that Universities and Athletic departments have tremendous leverage in contract negotiations with coaches, but have been Bullied by agents over the last 20 years and have ceded much of the power in contract negotiations to the coaches side of the ledger.....there are only 80 great jobs in college basketball and coaches often only get 1 shot at those jobs, yet they seem to continue to get contract extensions when no other University is going to hire them away.

 

The biggest example I see is the university of Iowa...They have tied up 10 years of University dollars in football and 6 years in basketball for 2 coaches that I doubt have other options anywhere near what the University is paying them....Does it help them in Recruiting, I don't think so....

 

One last thing...in basketball, if you fire your coach, most likely the new coach will blow up the roster anyway, so the I don't buy the defense that not extending the contract will affect the next coach.

 

 

There’s a lot of truth in this post that shouldn’t get dismissed, and the more athletes get stipends/name and likeness, the less of a focus there will be on making sure coaches have super long contracts. It’s notable when people suggest the standard needs to be five years or else recruiting - in basketball, where transfers are rampant - will be unduly hurt. 

 

That said, coaches believe it has an impact, which means assistant coaches believe it, which means the media reports on it, which means, on some level, it’s real, even if, at the end of the day, kids probably don’t make a decision solely or even primarily on that. Patrick Chambers recruited well at Penn State and he only had 1 year left on his contract. (He is soon to be extended.) 

[AuroranHusker]

18 minutes ago, swmckewon said:

Iowa also made six straight postseasons, including three straight NCAAs. 

 

 

 

Iowa went 4-14 in the B1G as well.

 

[swmckewon]

3 minutes ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

Iowa went 4-14 in the B1G as well.

 

In 2018, yes. But the 2018 4 Star signed back in November - before the season had even begun.

 

Iowa does have a 4-Star commit for 2019. Patrick McCaffrey. Fran’s son. 

[AuroranHusker]

Just now, swmckewon said:

In 2018, yes. But the 2018 4 Star signed back in November - before the season had even begun.

 

Iowa does have a 4-Star commit for 2019. Patrick McCaffrey. Fran’s son. 

 

Just giving the whole story, the team's most recent "good or bad" season doesn't typically affect a recruit's decision as much as fans believe.

[swmckewon]

Just now, AuroranHusker said:

 

Just giving the whole story, the team's most recent "good or bad" season doesn't typically affect a recruit's decision as much as fans believe.

I think good seasons have a little more effect on a player’s decision than a coach’s contract length.

 

When talking about the high quality recruits signed by Iowa, I think making six straight postseasons and 3 straight Tournaments is pertinent. Kids want to play in the postseason. They want to make runs in the postseason. Even conference tournament runs are exciting - see that run miles made two years ago, or the run Collier made that saved his bacon until he left 3 months later for the Butler AD job.

 

 

 

 

[HB]

11 hours ago, swmckewon said:

I think good seasons have a little more effect on a player’s decision than a coach’s contract length.

 

When talking about the high quality recruits signed by Iowa, I think making six straight postseasons and 3 straight Tournaments is pertinent. Kids want to play in the postseason. They want to make runs in the postseason. Even conference tournament runs are exciting - see that run miles made two years ago, or the run Collier made that saved his bacon until he left 3 months later for the Butler AD job.

 

 

 

 

 

So Sam, what's your position then on extending Amy Williams at this point? 

[swmckewon]

3 hours ago, HB said:

 

So Sam, what's your position then on extending Amy Williams at this point? 

What’s my take on extending the Big Ten Coach of the Year? About the same as when Tim Miles was Big Ten Coach of the Year. 

[Handy Johnson]

Tim and the Program were better off with NO extension and taking care of things next off season, (one way or the other) than the tepid, 1 year, limp wristed offer he got. As Lee B pointed out in the OWH today, perception becomes reality and every other school will HAMMER us on what's seen as lukewarm support for Miles. I'm afraid Tim's time here might be winding down, and Moos did more than nudge him out the door... 

[swmckewon]

2 hours ago, Handy Johnson said:

Tim and the Program were better off with NO extension and taking care of things next off season, (one way or the other) than the tepid, 1 year, limp wristed offer he got. As Lee B pointed out in the OWH today, perception becomes reality and every other school will HAMMER us on what's seen as lukewarm support for Miles. I'm afraid Tim's time here might be winding down, and Moos did more than nudge him out the door... 

If Miles wins big next year, man, it'd be tough to walk away and rebuild it entirely somewhere else. 

[HB]

4 hours ago, swmckewon said:

What’s my take on extending the Big Ten Coach of the Year? About the same as when Tim Miles was Big Ten Coach of the Year. 

 

Maybe answer the question instead of being a smart ass, and tie in your metaphysical nonsense you were blithering on about above. 

 

[HB]

1 hour ago, swmckewon said:

If Miles wins big next year, man, it'd be tough to walk away and rebuild it entirely somewhere else. 

 

He's a builder, and he would do it.   But its all academic anyway, because there is no way he'll win big enough, and Bounds and Moos have made their call.   You ought to know it's over.  Since you know so much.  

[swmckewon]

1 hour ago, HB said:

 

Maybe answer the question instead of being a smart ass, and tie in your metaphysical nonsense you were blithering on about above. 

 

It was an honest answer. Merit-based rewards.

 

I don’t think Miles got an extension after the NCAA Tourney year because he signed a 7-year contract at the outset. But he got a one year extension after the 2014-2015 season.

 

had it been me I would have extended Miles one year after the 2015-2016 season. Prolly not after the 2016-2017 season. 

 

But what I’d do is tangential to what actually has an effect. 

 

[swmckewon]

1 hour ago, HB said:

 

He's a builder, and he would do it.   But its all academic anyway, because there is no way he'll win big enough, and Bounds and Moos have made their call.   You ought to know it's over.  Since you know so much.  

I don’t know that it’s “over,” and I don’t know why, should Palmer, Roby and Copeland return, that Miles can’t win big.

[HB]

54 minutes ago, swmckewon said:

I don’t know that it’s “over,” and I don’t know why, should Palmer, Roby and Copeland return, that Miles can’t win big.

 

No true point guard, lack of post depth, for just a couple reasons.   That roster could win ok, but not big.  Since the administration killed recruiting, we didn't supplement it enough.   Won't matter anyway.  Win big, he gives us the middle finger, win average or less, we give him another one.  We just put off the Coaching change for a year.   

[Handy Johnson]

2-3 year extension made sense, 1 year doesn't, it's that simple.