Will Hawkins Redshirt?

[Norm Peterson]

 

 

Nebraska is a team that will have to redshirt guys from time to time based on each player's individual circumstances. I still say the only player who redshirts this year is Tim Wagner though.

 

Ummm...you heard about his injury, right?

 

 

Do you suppose that may have been why I said he'd redshirt?

 

It's OK, Hoop.  The rest of us knew what you were getting at. 

[uneblinstu]

 

 

Nebraska is a team that will have to redshirt guys from time to time based on each player's individual circumstances. I still say the only player who redshirts this year is Tim Wagner though.

 

Ummm...you heard about his injury, right?

 

 

Do you suppose that may have been why I said he'd redshirt?

 

Didn't read that way, sorry.

[49r]

 

Redshirting someone just means one of your (presumably) weaker recruits takes up a scholarship for 5 years instead of 4. Doesn't make sense in basketball IMO.

I think it's different if you're talking about:

 

1) a team that can attract top-shelf recruits year in and year out; or

2) a team that hopes its seniors are better than the other guy's freshmen

 

and also different if you're talking about:

 

1) a kid who is raw and athletic with the potential to really develop over time; or

2) a kid whose inability to contribute as a freshman is a reflection of him not being as good as you thought/hoped.

 

 

A team that relies on developing players and having experienced seniors playing major roles could potentially get a lot out of the 5th season of a kid who comes in raw and athletic but with tremendous upside.  Think what kind of player Mikki Moore would have been as a 5th year senior.

 

If you're Kentucky, though, it makes no sense to have a guy take up a spot for 5 seasons.  You've paid good money in the SEC for recruits to come in and produce right now.  If they can't hold up their end of the deal, let them transfer to Iowa State so you can make room for the next set of 5-star mercenaries recruits. 

 

 

 

YOU JUST WATCH YOUR MOUTH MISTER!!!

 

Don't make dimes start a new thread over here.  AND HE'LL DO IT, TOO!!!

[Handy Johnson]

Of course having "too many" good players is a nice problem to have, I just don't want to waste a year of eligibility on a real talent who might not get alot of minutes. Not a big Parker fan myself, but they won't redshirt him his sophmore year so Hawkins can play. Performance will sort all of this out.  

[Hooper]

Of course having "too many" good players is a nice problem to have, I just don't want to waste a year of eligibility on a real talent who might not get alot of minutes. Not a big Parker fan myself, but they won't redshirt him his sophmore year so Hawkins can play. Performance will sort all of this out.  

 

Oh, I agree, Handy. Parker is a player whose clock you want to keep running. 

[craig102m]

Personally I have always thought it depends on the depth chart at the program.

 

If the player can't cut the 10 man rotation, then redshirt him.  If he is raw with a lot of potential and won't be in the top 8, then redshirt him.  If he can start of provide valuable minutes off of the bench then play him.

 

With this being said if there is a recruiting "miss" you don't want that person to redshirt. 

 

Eight that will play in my opinion...Gallegos/Petteway/Pitchford/Biggs/Rivers/Shields/Webster/Smith

 

How many minutes are left after those 8?  Are Hawkins or Fuller good enough to spend a redshirt on?  I would think they would be rated as our #9 and #10 players.

[Dicemanhusker]

Personally I have always thought it depends on the depth chart at the program.

If the player can't cut the 10 man rotation, then redshirt him. If he is raw with a lot of potential and won't be in the top 8, then redshirt him. If he can start of provide valuable minutes off of the bench then play him.

With this being said if there is a recruiting "miss" you don't want that person to redshirt.

Eight that will play in my opinion...Gallegos/Petteway/Pitchford/Biggs/Rivers/Shields/Webster/Smith

How many minutes are left after those 8? Are Hawkins or Fuller good enough to spend a redshirt on? I would think they would be rated as our #9 and #10 players.

That is pretty good analysis. I can't argue with any of that.

[big red22]

Personally I have always thought it depends on the depth chart at the program.

 

If the player can't cut the 10 man rotation, then redshirt him.  If he is raw with a lot of potential and won't be in the top 8, then redshirt him.  If he can start of provide valuable minutes off of the bench then play him.

 

With this being said if there is a recruiting "miss" you don't want that person to redshirt. 

 

Eight that will play in my opinion...Gallegos/Petteway/Pitchford/Biggs/Rivers/Shields/Webster/Smith

 

How many minutes are left after those 8?  Are Hawkins or Fuller good enough to spend a redshirt on?  I would think they would be rated as our #9 and #10 players.

Fuller will get minutes 12-20 a game

[Norm Peterson]

 

Personally I have always thought it depends on the depth chart at the program.

 

If the player can't cut the 10 man rotation, then redshirt him.  If he is raw with a lot of potential and won't be in the top 8, then redshirt him.  If he can start of provide valuable minutes off of the bench then play him.

 

With this being said if there is a recruiting "miss" you don't want that person to redshirt. 

 

Eight that will play in my opinion...Gallegos/Petteway/Pitchford/Biggs/Rivers/Shields/Webster/Smith

 

How many minutes are left after those 8?  Are Hawkins or Fuller good enough to spend a redshirt on?  I would think they would be rated as our #9 and #10 players.

Fuller will get minutes 12-20 a game

 

I agree.  Fuller is a player.  I would put him in top 8 overall, regardless of position.  Definitely top 8.  Potentially even top 7.  Hawkins could be top 8 as well.  We'll see.  But even if Hawkins isn't top 8, he could still get 7-10 minutes/game this season and other players develop with that kind of playing time as freshmen.  What I hate to see is a kid who needs to gain weight, add some muscle, develop some game, etc., and really SHOULD redshirt only getting >2 minutes/game.  That's a waste.  That's a kid who either should have redshirted or should transfer.

[hskr4life]

Personally I have always thought it depends on the depth chart at the program.

 

If the player can't cut the 10 man rotation, then redshirt him.  If he is raw with a lot of potential and won't be in the top 8, then redshirt him.  If he can start of provide valuable minutes off of the bench then play him.

 

With this being said if there is a recruiting "miss" you don't want that person to redshirt. 

 

Eight that will play in my opinion...Gallegos/Petteway/Pitchford/Biggs/Rivers/Shields/Webster/Smith

 

How many minutes are left after those 8?  Are Hawkins or Fuller good enough to spend a redshirt on?  I would think they would be rated as our #9 and #10 players.

 

There are 10 players... actually 11 who will be fighting it our for PT come conference season.  Miles likes Parkers D from what I hear, so if he can dish, and improve on his scoring he will be a factor too.  So it will be a 11 man battle for the minutes come Janurary.  So I would not count out Fuller, Hawkins, or even Parker for that matter.

[Dicemanhusker]

Personally I have always thought it depends on the depth chart at the program.

If the player can't cut the 10 man rotation, then redshirt him. If he is raw with a lot of potential and won't be in the top 8, then redshirt him. If he can start of provide valuable minutes off of the bench then play him.

With this being said if there is a recruiting "miss" you don't want that person to redshirt.

Eight that will play in my opinion...Gallegos/Petteway/Pitchford/Biggs/Rivers/Shields/Webster/Smith

How many minutes are left after those 8? Are Hawkins or Fuller good enough to spend a redshirt on? I would think they would be rated as our #9 and #10 players.

There are 10 players... actually 11 who will be fighting it our for PT come conference season. Miles likes Parkers D from what I hear, so if he can dish, and improve on his scoring he will be a factor too. So it will be a 11 man battle for the minutes come Janurary. So I would not count out Fuller, Hawkins, or even Parker for that matter.

I have trouble believing Vooch won't compete for some minutes, during the right match ups at least, because of the size he brings to the table.

[hskr4life]

 

 

Personally I have always thought it depends on the depth chart at the program.

If the player can't cut the 10 man rotation, then redshirt him. If he is raw with a lot of potential and won't be in the top 8, then redshirt him. If he can start of provide valuable minutes off of the bench then play him.

With this being said if there is a recruiting "miss" you don't want that person to redshirt.

Eight that will play in my opinion...Gallegos/Petteway/Pitchford/Biggs/Rivers/Shields/Webster/Smith

How many minutes are left after those 8? Are Hawkins or Fuller good enough to spend a redshirt on? I would think they would be rated as our #9 and #10 players.

There are 10 players... actually 11 who will be fighting it our for PT come conference season. Miles likes Parkers D from what I hear, so if he can dish, and improve on his scoring he will be a factor too. So it will be a 11 man battle for the minutes come Janurary. So I would not count out Fuller, Hawkins, or even Parker for that matter.

I have trouble believing Vooch won't compete for some minutes, during the right match ups at least, because of the size he brings to the table.

 

 

I agree... It will be hard, because at the other end of the floor he may get beat up quite a bit.  It will be interesting, and will be fun to say the least.  Heres to a hope for a High NIT seed or even... well we will talk about that when we get there.

[throwback]

I will be very surprised if Vooch sees the floor in anything but garbage time again this season - Coach Miles has had nothing to say that would indicate Vooch is anywhere near cracking the lineup or has improved in the areas he needs to. I didn't think he showed much, if any, improvement from last year in the open scrimmage either. Kurkowski outplayed him for stretches.

 

Count me in the group that sees Fuller playing double-digit minutes. He may be NU's best spot-up shooter from the 3-point line before long, even better than Rey.

[a0t0w0]

I think Fuller is sound, but Nathan Hawkins will win us games. 

 

He drives, he rebounds, he shoots the 3, he hustles, he knows where to be.

 

If I'm wrong I promise to stick to scouting cheerleaders.

[Huskerpapa]

I think Fuller is sound, but Nathan Hawkins will win us games. 

 

He drives, he rebounds, he shoots the 3, he hustles, he knows where to be.

 

If I'm wrong I promise to stick to scouting cheerleaders.

 

I thought the same when I watched him in the scrimmage, the kid has a pretty darn good all around game.  I am not sure Fuller is quite as quick as Nathan, but that does not discount Fuller's game.  I think both of them are going to be good ones.

[craig102m]

The question is do we have enough minutes to go around?  It is easy to say this guy gets 20 minutes or that guy gets 10 minutes until you start breaking own the minutes and it gets pretty tight.  There are only 200 minutes in a game...if Petteway/Pitchford/Gallegos/Webster/Shields each play 25 per game that is 125.  Rivers/Biggs/Smith each play 20 that is 60.  That leaves 15 minutes for Fuller/Hawkins/Parker/Vooch.  Those minutes are probably a bit low for the first group and there still is not much to go around, especially if Fuller is going to get double digit minutes and Parker is going to see the floor at all.  

[a0t0w0]

The question is do we have enough minutes to go around?  It is easy to say this guy gets 20 minutes or that guy gets 10 minutes until you start breaking own the minutes and it gets pretty tight.  There are only 200 minutes in a game...if Petteway/Pitchford/Gallegos/Webster/Shields each play 25 per game that is 125.  Rivers/Biggs/Smith each play 20 that is 60.  That leaves 15 minutes for Fuller/Hawkins/Parker/Vooch.  Those minutes are probably a bit low for the first group and there still is not much to go around, especially if Fuller is going to get double digit minutes and Parker is going to see the floor at all.  

 

Why write in Fuller?  Why isn't the thread titled "Will Fuller redshirt?"  It's going to be an interesting line up for sure.

[Dicemanhusker]

The question is do we have enough minutes to go around? It is easy to say this guy gets 20 minutes or that guy gets 10 minutes until you start breaking own the minutes and it gets pretty tight. There are only 200 minutes in a game...if Petteway/Pitchford/Gallegos/Webster/Shields each play 25 per game that is 125. Rivers/Biggs/Smith each play 20 that is 60. That leaves 15 minutes for Fuller/Hawkins/Parker/Vooch. Those minutes are probably a bit low for the first group and there still is not much to go around, especially if Fuller is going to get double digit minutes and Parker is going to see the floor at all.

Why write in Fuller? Why isn't the thread titled "Will Fuller redshirt?" It's going to be an interesting line up for sure.

The key IMO are roles. This is why I don't see a likelihood of any redshirts. I feel like everyone will have a role in certain games. It's all about a dynamic rotation, determined game by game, that will carry us to victory. Some guys might not touch the floor for 3 games running, but end up helping us seal the next two victories with a big rebound late, or a defensive stop in OT. That's what I'm getting at. I would redshirt skinny, yet highly projectable, frosh (like Vooch last year) and that's it.

[Silverbacked1]

The question is do we have enough minutes to go around? It is easy to say this guy gets 20 minutes or that guy gets 10 minutes until you start breaking own the minutes and it gets pretty tight. There are only 200 minutes in a game...if Petteway/Pitchford/Gallegos/Webster/Shields each play 25 per game that is 125. Rivers/Biggs/Smith each play 20 that is 60. That leaves 15 minutes for Fuller/Hawkins/Parker/Vooch. Those minutes are probably a bit low for the first group and there still is not much to go around, especially if Fuller is going to get double digit minutes and Parker is going to see the floor at all.

Why write in Fuller? Why isn't the thread titled "Will Fuller redshirt?" It's going to be an interesting line up for sure.

The key IMO are roles. This is why I don't see a likelihood of any redshirts. I feel like everyone will have a role in certain games. It's all about a dynamic rotation, determined game by game, that will carry us to victory. Some guys might not touch the floor for 3 games running, but end up helping us seal the next two victories with a big rebound late, or a defensive stop in OT. That's what I'm getting at. I would redshirt skinny, yet highly projectable, frosh (like Vooch last year) and that's it.

That is what I have been think for sometime. Kind of the next man up deal. Different games different players might be needed.

[craig102m]

 

 

The question is do we have enough minutes to go around? It is easy to say this guy gets 20 minutes or that guy gets 10 minutes until you start breaking own the minutes and it gets pretty tight. There are only 200 minutes in a game...if Petteway/Pitchford/Gallegos/Webster/Shields each play 25 per game that is 125. Rivers/Biggs/Smith each play 20 that is 60. That leaves 15 minutes for Fuller/Hawkins/Parker/Vooch. Those minutes are probably a bit low for the first group and there still is not much to go around, especially if Fuller is going to get double digit minutes and Parker is going to see the floor at all.

Why write in Fuller? Why isn't the thread titled "Will Fuller redshirt?" It's going to be an interesting line up for sure.

The key IMO are roles. This is why I don't see a likelihood of any redshirts. I feel like everyone will have a role in certain games. It's all about a dynamic rotation, determined game by game, that will carry us to victory. Some guys might not touch the floor for 3 games running, but end up helping us seal the next two victories with a big rebound late, or a defensive stop in OT. That's what I'm getting at. I would redshirt skinny, yet highly projectable, frosh (like Vooch last year) and that's it.

 

 

If someone does not play for 3 games straight and is a freshmen with upside IMO they should be redshirted.  If a guy does not play for a few games in a row and sees the floor in OT or in the closing minutes of a game the board will blow up and criticize the hell out of Miles if he doesn't perform(unless there are multiple players that have fouled out).  

 

IMO we should not have a year where we redshirt basically a whole class like Doc did a few years back.  If Miles is able to bring in the talent we hope that he can then most years there should be one player in most classes that gets redshirted.  A player that benefits more from a year of development allowing a 5th year vs playing 5 minutes as a freshman.

[milesrocks]

Couple of quick notes.  I'm pretty sure Fuller is gonna play.  Miles has a history of knowing how to utilize skilled players, particularly guys who can stroke it from deep.  I'm doubting he redshirts, but I guess we'll see.

 

On the topic of redshirting, sometimes good players redshirt for other reasons than academics or concerns about playing time.  Sometimes guys want that extra year to be in college just to adjust and have fun.  A redshirt year can do wonders for a players confidence, especially if they have the green light on the scout team.  The recruiting class of 89 is a good example.  Piatkowski, probably the greatest player to ever wear a Husker jersey, had a huge list of offers coming out of high school, could have went pretty much wherever he wanted.  And there was no doubt he could play from day 1.  However, he chose to redshirt which his father (a former pro) was in favor of as well.  Not because of academics, and not because of playing time concerns, but because that extra year can help establish players on the floor and in the classroom.

[hhcmatt]

The question is do we have enough minutes to go around? 

 

Given our preseason injury rate so far, yes.

[Huskerpapa]

It is also important to realize and understand...this is not college basketball of ten years ago.  There was a time where a coach would go to a player and simply say, you are redshirting and it was a done deal.  Today, more often than not, a player will not redshirt unless HE wants to redshirt. 

 

The players are keeping the redshirt in their pocket in case they wish to transfer.  By doing so, they save a year of eligibility.  I am not saying any of our kids want to transfer, but one has to wonder why someone like Vooch, did not redshirt last year.  Yes there are explanations, all of which seem a bit lame, but what the heck.

[NUdiehard]

I think the potential value of a redshirt year is greatly misunderstood by fans and young players alike today (and possibly coaches as well).  Reading some of the comments in this thread make me shake my head. 

 

To suggest that no players (or very, very few) should ever redshirt in college basketball today is unfathomable IMO.  It simply cannot be denied that in a majority of cases, a college basketball player is going to be SIGNIFICANTLY better his senior year than his freshman year.  Why wouldn't a player and coach (and a fan of the team) want to have a player for an extra "5th" year when that player is at his peak of productivity vs. the (often) limited productivity that player provides his freshman year?

 

I am NOT saying this is true in every case.  And I am not saying that every recruit should be redshirted.  Obviously, there are many exceptions.  For instance, if you have a player that is so skilled that he can immediately be an impact player and a possibly a starter, then you usually should play him right away.

 

If you have a guy who is considered a "one-and-done" type (or even 2 or 3-and-done), then it obviously would be foolish to play him.  But NU has not had one of them in a LONG, LONG time (if ever).

 

But for players  a step below, who have potential but need to develop, then redshirting should be STRONGLY considered and possibly even strongly suggested by the coach.  We are trying to "build" a program here.  It will not happen overnight.  If redshirting a few players is the best way, then go for it. 

 

Let's just take some examples.  Brandon Ubel did not RS his freshman year.  What did it get him?  The team was absolutely terrible his freshman year and he wasn't much better.  BUT, he developed into a decent player.  If he was returning this year for a 5th year, he could be a valuable piece to the puzzle, especially if Smith struggles with injury.  Similarly, had Gallegos not RS, he would not be on the team this year.  Can anyone argue that his value this year (his 5th year) will be light years ahead of the minuscule value he provided his freshman year?  He will not be All-B1G this year, but he will be a starter and a valuable contributor.  I have previously argued ad nauseum why Vooch should have RS last year.  He provided absolutely nothing to the team last year.  Whether or not he transfers later is irrelevant.  He should have RS simply to preserve the chance that he may be able to develop later.  Now, that chance is lost unless he decides to RS this year (which would be unfortunate b/c if he is going to RS, it should have been last year).

 

Nebraska is a doormat program.  Has been for a long time.  We may need to do some "unconventional" things to work our way to the top. 

 

Look, if Miles starts pulling in the Elbert Robinsons of the recruiting world. then yes, this argument will become moot.  But he is not doing that just yet.  So he must keep other options open.

 

With that said, I am not even sure if I was Miles that I would want to RS any of the new players this year.  It would be a difficult decision.  Realistically, only Hawkins and Fuller are candidates, and from all reports I think Fuller will be  significant contributor, so I don't see him RSing this year.  That only leaves Hawkins and only Coach Miles has seen enough of him in practice to make that decision.  If he can play decent minutes right away and contribute, then play him.  But I don't want to see another Vooch situation where he plays a few garbage minutes here and there and wastes a year of eligibility.  That would be unfortunately IMO.

 

 

[NUdiehard]

It is also important to realize and understand...this is not college basketball of ten years ago.  There was a time where a coach would go to a player and simply say, you are redshirting and it was a done deal.  Today, more often than not, a player will not redshirt unless HE wants to redshirt. 

 

The players are keeping the redshirt in their pocket in case they wish to transfer.  By doing so, they save a year of eligibility.  I am not saying any of our kids want to transfer, but one has to wonder why someone like Vooch, did not redshirt last year.  Yes there are explanations, all of which seem a bit lame, but what the heck.

I fail to see how they are "saving" a year even if they transfer.  If the player RS his freshman year, and then transfers later, he will have exactly the same amount of eligibility with his "new" team as he would have had if he had played his freshman year and then used his RS for this transfer year.  For instance, if Vooch had RS last year, he would be a RS freshman this year rather than a sophmore.  Thus, if he were to transfer after this year, he would have 2 years of eligibility with his new team no matter whether he RS his freshman year or whether he "saved" his RS for the transfer year.  The net result is exactly the same.

 

The difference for the original team he signs for (in this case Nebraska) however, can be significant.  Because, if Vooch were to develop strength after this year and develop into a good player who can be a contributor next year and thereafter, he has essentially wasted a full year that he could have "saved" until his "5th" year when he would have been at his peak productivity.  There is no rationale whatsoever IMO to burn a players eligility for a few garbage minutes his freshman year.