New Preferred Walk-on Tim Wagner is a Husker

[Norm Peterson]

 

I don't think Norm is going to like that shooting form.

My thoughts exactly.  A little slow on the windup and pretty low on the release.  But on the other hand, his shots appear to go inside the hoop with a strong degree of regularity!

But watch his feet. He rhythm steps as the ball is arriving. So even if his release appears a little slow to you, half his shot is over before he even catches the ball. That speeds things up. I don't mean to quibble, but his release seems high enough to me, my issue is dipping the ball on the catch which does definitely slow down the release. Eliminate the dip and I think his shot will be off just fine.

There are certainly some good things going on in that shot, most notably that he gets the biscuit in the basket with regularity.  That's job one.  But getting that shot off against college defenses is another story and I agree with you completely, Dean.  It's the dip that's the problem.  He starts the shot from almost waist  level.  Instead of drawing the ball back above his head, he starts his shot down in almost a triple-threat position.  Y'know, ideally he winds up a little differently to start his shot, but it is what it is and in his case I don't know that you mess around with it at this point.  

[Norm Peterson]

Here's a guy whose shot I think is close to ideal.  Matt Thomas, Iowa State commit.  Rivals top 150.  We were after him.  I think we came in his top 4 or 5.  I really like this kid.  But look at his shot.  A thing of beauty.

 

[HuskerFever]

This Tim kid sure takes a long time to get the ball out of his hands. Might make it tough for him going to the next level.

[Norm Peterson]

I actually think it's a pretty quick shot.  It just starts out way low.   I've gone through and tried to pause the film at various points in the shot and he's getting it out of his hands pretty quickly.  But it's just a strange motion and he starts it almost down at waist level and he just sort of chucks it up there.

 

Now, if we'd offered the kid a scholie, I'd be concerned about what his shot looks like.  But this kid is a preferred walk-on who is going to school on an academic scholarship  and isn't costing us a scholarship spot to be here.  He and Trevor Menke can compare who shoots the ugliest swish.  At the end of the day, if he wants to be a Husker and walk on, more power to him.  Welcome aboard.

[Huskerpapa]

I agree with the angst regarding the starting point of his shot, but the release is pretty, and like others say, he definitely puts it into the hoop.  If he can work and correct the starting point, and maintain the release, he will be able to shoot at the next level.  But remember, he is a walk on, so expectations are low...hopefully he can achieve or exceed expectations in his time in Lincoln.

[hhcmatt]

http://www.winonadailynews.com/sports/article_799b3902-5cda-11e0-841b-001cc4c002e0.html

 

This is likely a Miles or maybe a Smith contact through either Wagner's father, who is the head coach, or the assistant coach.  Both Mark Wagner and Mark Bambenek were small college basketball coaches/assistants in the Minny-Wisconsin area around the same time as Miles.

 

It's safe to say that Miles will be pulling kids out of Minnesota and Wisconsin for the duration of his coaching career.

[jimmykc]

Coaches kids usually work out well. I was one. And speaking of Beranek, he was just named coach at Holdredge.

[Norm Peterson]

Coaches kids usually work out well. I was one. And speaking of Beranek, he was just named coach at Holdredge.

Yeah, congrats to Beranek.  That's awesome.

[Red Rum]

http://www.winonadailynews.com/sports/article_799b3902-5cda-11e0-841b-001cc4c002e0.html

 

This is likely a Miles or maybe a Smith contact through either Wagner's father, who is the head coach, or the assistant coach.  Both Mark Wagner and Mark Bambenek were small college basketball coaches/assistants in the Minny-Wisconsin area around the same time as Miles.

 

It's safe to say that Miles will be pulling kids out of Minnesota and Wisconsin for the duration of his coaching career.

 

I'm ok with this. The goofy looking northern white kid angle seems to work for Wisconsin

[Cybrrmonky]

Agree, its the dip that makes his shot look odd/slow.  The release & follow thru are spot on. 

 

Again we're debating a walkon.  Can't argue with adding a guy who knows how to put the ball in the hole from deep.  We haven't exactly had an abundance of them recently so I'm all for adding a guy who knows how to fill it. 

 

He's a much higher class walkon than what we normally would have.  So he could find minutes if his shot continues to find the bottom of the bucket.

[PimpMario]

His shot is ugly.  It looks like he is shooting from the hip.  I am not seeing a good release but maybe that is because I can't see past the dip.

 

I truly don't know the answer to this as I wasn't a shooter, but if he adds strength will that help him be able to have a higher start to his shot?  He is also going to have to take a step back in college.  

 

Having said all that, I am glad to have him.  This is Nebraska and we can always use more walkons, even if they are only used for the practice team.

[PimpMario]

Here's a guy whose shot I think is close to ideal.  Matt Thomas, Iowa State commit.  Rivals top 150.  We were after him.  I think we came in his top 4 or 5.  I really like this kid.  But look at his shot.  A thing of beauty.

 

 

DAMN you Norm.  Seriously, that guys shot is a thing of beauty.  He looks like the type of guy you can build a program around.  I am sitting he wishing we had that guy. 

BOOO!!!!

[PimpMario]

And you never know, maybe Wagner will be the next Cary Cochran...

 

Does anyone remember if Cochran was highly regarded coming out of high school?

[HB]

And you never know, maybe Wagner will be the next Cary Cochran...

 

Does anyone remember if Cochran was highly regarded coming out of high school?

 

He was not. Great shooter but people questioned his size for the 2 guard and his athleticism.   But like Wagner, his dad was his coach.

[uneblinstu]

He was also the all-time leading scorer in Iowa history (or was it all time leading 3 point shooter, it was at least one of those...).

[Norm Peterson]

And you never know, maybe Wagner will be the next Cary Cochran...

 

Does anyone remember if Cochran was highly regarded coming out of high school?

 

He was not. Great shooter but poeple questioned his size for the 2 guard and his athleticism.   But like Wagner, his dad was his coach.

Including Danny Nee. 

[HB]

 

And you never know, maybe Wagner will be the next Cary Cochran...

 

Does anyone remember if Cochran was highly regarded coming out of high school?

 

He was not. Great shooter but poeple questioned his size for the 2 guard and his athleticism.   But like Wagner, his dad was his coach.

Including Danny Nee. 

You are right about that....I was part of some off the record discussions between Danny and the press which validate your post.  Cochran was always better than Danny thought he was.   Interesting how the "projection" business is sometimes--Obviously a whole lot of coaches ignored Cary's accomplishments in high school, thinking he couldn't do that at the next level (they were somewhat correct--he was mainly a spot up shooter in college as opposed to a scorer; still he was good enough to play here and I'm glad we signed him). 

 

Cedric Hunter comes to mind--To this day I think it was Moe's single biggest mistake.  He thought Cedric got all of his points  around the basket, and wouldn't be able to do that at the next level since he was barely 5'11".   While he never was a great outside shooter, he was an outstanding college point guard at KU.

 

Billy Ball discusses this concept with regard to baseball.  Beane says the "projection" business relies too much on "measurables" and not enough on what the player has actually done in their careers--Beane would have offered Cochron a scholarship based on the accomplishments cited in Uneblinstu's post above. 

[Norm Peterson]

Cochran has told the story about how, in his freshman season, he was running off the floor after hitting the game-winning shot to beat whoever it was, and Nee caught him and told him "you'll never make it here; you're too slow."  Or words to that effect.

[GoBigRed]

I don't see what the big deal is. If my eyes don't deceive me, I saw him get blocked, 0, exactly ZERO times in that video.

 

[GoBigRed]

Seriously though, I don't think his shooting form is anything to be too concerned with. If he were a scholarship player that we were expecting to play important minutes right away, yeah I'd be worried. But he's just a walk-on. If he ends up playing, great. If he doesn't end up playing, oh well. Is anybody upset that Kye Kurkowski is on the team?

 

IMO, because he is 6'3", he can be afforded a little bit of an unorthodox shot. Yes, it is ugly. But if he were 5'8" with that shot, he wouldn't stand a chance in college, let alone be a good scorer in high school. But I realy don't think this should be an issue. If he ever has a role in games, it will be to hit open 3-point shots, and he won't be creating his own shots at this level anyway. It will be predicated on terrific point guard play and great ball movement, both of which we haven't seen in a while but hope to. If we can finally have our PG (Webster?) who can create and distribute, and have a capable team that can quickly move the ball around the perimeter and in and out of the post, then this kid will get his chances at wide-open 3s. Honestly, how many blocked 3-point attempts can you remember seeing this entire college basketball season? It just doesn't happen that often. We didn't recruit this guy to dribble, jab and hit pull-up 3-pointers with Trey Burke guarding him. My hope is that Webster is a great scoring option, Pitchford is a great scoring option, Shields is a great scoring option, and if and when this kid ever comes into a game, he's the last guy on the court the defense is worried about, which is when wide-open 3s happen. If someone is guarding him 20 feet from the basket, that's one less body in the way of the rest.

 

I'm more worried about how well this kid plays defense. He looks to be lacking athleticism and I don't know how many Big Ten shooting guards he could match up with.

[hhcmatt]

Seriously though, I don't think his shooting form is anything to be too concerned with. If he were a scholarship player that we were expecting to play important minutes right away, yeah I'd be worried. But he's just a walk-on. If he ends up playing, great. If he doesn't end up playing, oh well. Is anybody upset that Kye Kurkowski is on the team?

[lang]

And you never know, maybe Wagner will be the next Cary Cochran...

 

Does anyone remember if Cochran was highly regarded coming out of high school?

 

He was not. Great shooter but people questioned his size for the 2 guard and his athleticism.   But like Wagner, his dad was his coach.

IIRC, it was between us and Colorado ( there might have been another team in there too ) for his signature.

[lang]

Cochran has told the story about how, in his freshman season, he was running off the floor after hitting the game-winning shot to beat whoever it was, and Nee caught him and told him "you'll never make it here; you're too slow."  Or words to that effect.

I kind of remember that too.   I believe it was after an away TCU game in the NIT ( not sure if we won, but Cary had 21-25 points in the game ).   He had had this really nice game and Danny was dogging on him....his way of motivating I guess.

 

Maybe like Doc with Ryan Anderson his freshman year.   I'll never forget a practice I was at...it made me uncomfortable watching.  I swore he was trying to get Ryan to quit the team.   Now I see the bigger picture OR maybe he really was trying to get him to quit the team

[hhcdave]

Danny never wanted Cochran. It was an assistant who talked and talked him into it. I forget who it was.

 

Cary would have gone to SMU had the head coach down there not gotten fired at that same time. I forget his name.

[Norm Peterson]

Glad we got Cary.

 

OK, so, anyway, this discussion about this walk-on kid's shooting form.  Yeah, no reason to be concerned about it.  The kid is a walk-on and if he wants to be here, we're certainly happy to have him.  It only helps the program that some kid from Wisconsin wants to walk on here.  And I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth.  (That's an old expression that means it's not appropriate to criticize that which you've been given for free.)

 

Here's how the discussion came up.  Over the years, I've been known to critique the shooting form of various players.  Recruits, typically.  Someone checked out the video on this kid and observed, accurately, that I would find his shooting form to be less than ideal.  That's true, I would.  But it doesn't matter because this kid is a walk-on and we're happy to have him no matter what his shot looks like.  I think everyone would agree with that.

 

Still, it's a butt-ugly shot that goes in.  The best thing about it is that it rips the nets.  And at this point, for this kid, that's more than good enough for me.