West Virginia...

[Fullbacksympathy]

Why can't this be us?  We have the athletes.  That's the most practical and unique defensive philosophy I could see us employing here with success.  Ugh.

[Dean Smith]

Are you referring to his only one man help rotation out of shell and his  "box" concept in the half court or just that they press a lot? 

[nustudent]

I dont see the athletes yet from top to bottom

[Fullbacksympathy]

9 hours ago, Dean Smith said:

Are you referring to his only one man help rotation out of shell and his  "box" concept in the half court or just that they press a lot? 

 

Glad you're here, Dean.  I like that they press and roll back into the box.  It looks like an extremely difficult defense to get any sort of rhythm against offensively because so few teams use it.  Notre Dame is a very good offensive team and they couldn't get comfortable at all.  What do you think?  

[Cazzie22]

I don't think Jordy would be effective in a WVU system.  Huggins has tough, physical guards that can shoot and active forwards to be the point on the press.  Do we have those types?

[nustudent]

16 minutes ago, Cazzie22 said:

I don't think Jordy would be effective in a WVU system.  Huggins has tough, physical guards that can shoot and active forwards to be the point on the press.  Do we have those types?

My thoughts exactly.   Have decent players, but don't see them fitting this scheme 

[Dean Smith]

My question is still half or full court. There is nothing really unique about the full court trapping they do, but the way he runs his 1/2 court man is quite different from most. 

His basic shell rotation doesn't require the posts to move most times which should dispel those worries about Jordy because post rotations are easier than in a "normal" m-4-m. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Dean Smith

[jimmykc]

Sounds to me like he pretty much goes baseline to baseline.

[Red Rum]

1 hour ago, jimmykc said:

Sounds to me like he pretty much goes baseline to baseline.

 

Did he get the idea from watching tennis?

[Fullbacksympathy]

On 3/22/2017 at 10:44 PM, Dean Smith said:

My question is still half or full court. There is nothing really unique about the full court trapping they do, but the way he runs his 1/2 court man is quite different from most. 

His basic shell rotation doesn't require the posts to move most times which should dispel those worries about Jordy because post rotations are easier than in a "normal" m-4-m. 

 

I like both.  I think they compliment one another and flow pretty well into one another.  The shell seems to create a lot of problems on the perimeter, and the fact that WVU is always at or near the top in steals is fairly telling to me.  I realize the press isn't unique, but the fact that they press is unique and disruptive.  

 

I don't know.  I'm just looking at all of these athletic 6'5"-6'8" guys on next year's roster... seems like a press dream to me.  The mentality of a press defender is so much more "offensive" and aggressive (and, probably, fun) than most typical half court defenses as well.  It's rare to find teams that press who don't play with confidence, and I don't see much of a talent gap between us and WVU or Arkansas.  I think either of those programs would be a reasonable goal.  

[AuroranHusker]

That last 15 seconds was among the worst basketball at the collegiate level, and it happened with an Elite 8 appearance on the line... How in the heck did WVU even have a chance in that game shooting blanks?!

[49r]

 

[49r]

 

[Chuck Taylor]

2 hours ago, 49r said:

 

Funny stuff. Man, if somebody can put something that good together, how can we not cure cancer?

[jdw]

On 3/23/2017 at 7:17 AM, jimmykc said:

Sounds to me like he pretty much goes baseline to baseline.

I wish Doc had not confused baselines with sidelines

[Dean Smith]

On 3/24/2017 at 9:21 AM, LK1 said:

 

I like both.  I think they compliment one another and flow pretty well into one another.  The shell seems to create a lot of problems on the perimeter, and the fact that WVU is always at or near the top in steals is fairly telling to me.  I realize the press isn't unique, but the fact that they press is unique and disruptive.  

 

I don't know.  I'm just looking at all of these athletic 6'5"-6'8" guys on next year's roster... seems like a press dream to me.  The mentality of a press defender is so much more "offensive" and aggressive (and, probably, fun) than most typical half court defenses as well.  It's rare to find teams that press who don't play with confidence, and I don't see much of a talent gap between us and WVU or Arkansas.  I think either of those programs would be a reasonable goal.  

His shell rotation doesn't cause any turnovers as it only comes in to play on baseline drives. Everyone else has the bottom helpside come over to stop the baseline drive and then the weakside top drops down to help the helper. He leaves his helpside bottom on the bottom and has the weakside top rotate down diagonally to help stop the drive. He says that is one less man to screw up a rotation. As well, the normal bottom man is usually a post. That means you have a big man trying to stop a drive and usually a gaurd dropping down to replace him which leads to weakside offensive rebounds. This way you only have one rotating and now you have a guard who should be better at stopping drives coming and your big man stays in weakside rebounding position. If there is a ballside post (he guards the posts with a front) their defender stays and does not leave their post. The diagonally dropping gaurd comes down and traps the driver along with the original defender who gave up the drive in the first place. The defensive post only steps out at the last moment if the weakside rotation is late. If that happens the man dropping down and over would then dive in front of the offensive post to replace the helping defensive post. This is the opposite of what NC does as they want the fronting defensive post to be the first man to step out, stop the drive and then trap the ball. The bottom helpside man rotating over would then pick up ballside post. 

 

In his M-4-M he wants to create a box for his players to guard and to try to continually shrink that box. This can lead to turnovers. The box is determined by the helpline and the depth of the ball off the baseline. You force the point out of the middle and don't deny any pass as long as it goes the same direction. So you don't deny the wing pass and if the wing wants to pass to the corner you allow that as well. The deeper the ball, the smaller the box you are guarding. Every player should be no more than one big step away from the box. Once the offense has shrunk their box, you keep it there. That means you deny hard the pass from the wing back to the point and the pass from the corner back to the wing. Both of those passes are back in the opposite direction and are making your box bigger, meaning you have more area to cover and guard. 

 

Its a a lot easier to draw these up than to try to explain them with words 

. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Dean Smith

[Fullbacksympathy]

11 hours ago, Dean Smith said:

His shell rotation doesn't cause any turnovers as it only comes in to play on baseline drives. Everyone else has the bottom helpside come over to stop the baseline drive and the the weakside top drops down to help the helper. He leaves his helpside bottom on the bottom and has the weakside top rotate down diagonally to help stop the drive. He says that is one less man to screw up a rotation. As well, the normal bottom man is usually a post. That means you have a big man trying to stop a drive and usually a gaurd dropping down to replace him which leads to weakside offensive rebounds. This way you only have one rotating and now you have a guard who should be better at stopping drives coming and your big man stays in weakside rebounding position. If there is a ballside post (he guards the posts with a front) their defender stays and does not leave their post. The diagonally dropping gaurd comes down and traps the driver along with the original defender who gave up the drive in the first place. The defensive post only steps out at the last moment if the weakside rotation is late. If that happens the man dropping down and over would then dive in front of the offensive post to replace the helping defensive post. This is the opposite of what NC does as they want the fronting defensive post to be the first man to step out, stop the drive and then trap the ball. The bottom helpside man rotating over would then pick up ballside post. 

 

In his M-4-M he wants to create a box for his players to guard and to try to continually shrink that box. This can lead to turnovers. The box is determined by the helpline and the depth of the ball off the baseline. You force the point out of the middle and don't deny any pass as long as it goes the same direction. So you don't deny the wing pass and if the wing wants to pass to the corner you allow that as well. The deeper the ball, the smaller the box you are guarding. Every player should be no more than one big step away from the box. Once the offense has shrunk their box, you keep it there. That means you deny hard the pass from the wing back to the point and the pass from the corner back to the wing. Both of those passes are back in the opposite direction and are making your box bigger, meaning you have more area to cover and guard. 

 

Its a a lot easier to draw these up than to try to explain them with words 

. 

 

Fascinating.  I appreciate you articulating this for me.  Thanks Dean.  

[basketballjones]

16 hours ago, Dean Smith said:

His shell rotation doesn't cause any turnovers as it only comes in to play on baseline drives. Everyone else has the bottom helpside come over to stop the baseline drive and then the weakside top drops down to help the helper. He leaves his helpside bottom on the bottom and has the weakside top rotate down diagonally to help stop the drive. He says that is one less man to screw up a rotation. As well, the normal bottom man is usually a post. That means you have a big man trying to stop a drive and usually a gaurd dropping down to replace him which leads to weakside offensive rebounds. This way you only have one rotating and now you have a guard who should be better at stopping drives coming and your big man stays in weakside rebounding position. If there is a ballside post (he guards the posts with a front) their defender stays and does not leave their post. The diagonally dropping gaurd comes down and traps the driver along with the original defender who gave up the drive in the first place. The defensive post only steps out at the last moment if the weakside rotation is late. If that happens the man dropping down and over would then dive in front of the offensive post to replace the helping defensive post. This is the opposite of what NC does as they want the fronting defensive post to be the first man to step out, stop the drive and then trap the ball. The bottom helpside man rotating over would then pick up ballside post. 

 

In his M-4-M he wants to create a box for his players to guard and to try to continually shrink that box. This can lead to turnovers. The box is determined by the helpline and the depth of the ball off the baseline. You force the point out of the middle and don't deny any pass as long as it goes the same direction. So you don't deny the wing pass and if the wing wants to pass to the corner you allow that as well. The deeper the ball, the smaller the box you are guarding. Every player should be no more than one big step away from the box. Once the offense has shrunk their box, you keep it there. That means you deny hard the pass from the wing back to the point and the pass from the corner back to the wing. Both of those passes are back in the opposite direction and are making your box bigger, meaning you have more area to cover and guard. 

 

Its a a lot easier to draw these up than to try to explain them with words 

. 

I'd prefer to see you in uniform going through all the shell positions 

[Dean Smith]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

I'd prefer to see you in uniform going through all the shell positions 

Trust me - you wouldn't