The Haymarket Hardwood Nebraska postgame chatter: vol 16; ed 3 - Rider

Here's C.J. Wilcher's line from last night--not too shabby, except for the 3 turnovers:

22:51 minutes; 13 points on 4-8 (50%) from the field, 3-5 (60%) from three, and 2-2 (100%) from the line; 5 rebounds; 2 fouls; 1 assist; 3 turnovers; and +/- +13.

Boy whomever set up this schedule deserves some credit.. Two cupcakes followed by a bit of a tester against rider.  Then a get right game against a stony brook squad and then a decent pac 12 squad against Oregon St. followed by a real good Duquesne team.  I feel like this schedule is allowing us to get our feet under us and get into rythm possibly as they play together more and more.  It allows us some room to improve each game and hopefully keep winning.  We shall see how the rest of this month goes but hopefully we are 7-0 going into that Creighton game.

With all due respect to Oregon St we might hold those guys under 50 points if they can't get to the FT line. I'm hoping they can beat Appalachian St. at home tonight.

35 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

He's basically Shep from Above the Rim except he can't buy a layup

I think you posted the wrong picture.  This is actually Derice and he’s a bobsledding legend.  

15 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

I think this is just a bit of a doomer take though.  KenPom had us as 16 point favorites in this one and we won by 14.  Considering the low scoring in the game you gotta figure we performed just about as expected.  Fred's teams always improve as the season progresses, I am not sure it's time to (at 3-0) start ringing alarm bells just yet.

Never excuse in victory what you would not in defeat. 

We're not playing very well from an offensive-cohesiveness standpoint and the weaknesses are glaring. If you're not seeing that I guess we just have different views on the game. 

My take isn't a doomer take at all. Maybe it's a weakness in my writing style, but I'm just providing honest analysis and criticism from a educated and experienced standpoint. I'm a HUGE buy on this team. I believe talking NIT with this team is a disappointment. This is as deep, old, experienced, and versatile of a team as you can find in 2023 with the transfer portal and the way the basketball environment is in general. We should be doing BIG things this year. 

I'm not saying this is a top 1-2 team in the conference or a top 10 team. But this is a top 25 team as far as roster composition goes, in my opinion. We have inside scoring, rebounding, defensive cohesiveness and effort, 3pt shooting galore (in theory), and decent depth and multiple positions. 

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

My take isn't a doomer take at all. Maybe it's a weakness in my writing style, but I'm just providing honest analysis and criticism from a educated and experienced standpoint.

Okay, fair enough.  Yeah, we all want to see a well-oiled machine and beat our opponents by 40 every night, but in Fred's defense we had some pretty significant turnover and are still battling through some injury/suspension issues.  Building cohesion and gelling as a team may take a few games.  Still, we're 3-0 and that's better than it's ever been under Fred.

Like coach says, "it's better to learn from a win than from a loss".

26 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

Okay, fair enough.  Yeah, we all want to see a well-oiled machine and beat our opponents by 40 every night, but in Fred's defense we had some pretty significant turnover and are still battling through some injury/suspension issues.  Building cohesion and gelling as a team may take a few games.  Still, we're 3-0 and that's better than it's ever been under Fred.

 

Like coach says, "it's better to learn from a win than from a loss".

Pretty good way of looking at it.  Hopefully the crispness will arrive sooner rather than later.

One thing buoying our offense is that Mast, Williams, Rice, and Boogie all seem to be able to draw contact and get to the line at a higher rate than most of the players they've replaced. Stony Brook is going to be a good test on how much of this is ability and how much is opponent as Geno Ford and Stony Brook traditionally is a program that doesn't foul as much as others whereas the first three teams we played are naturally hacky.

We are definitely not clicking on offense but that is to be expected with all the new faces.  We were maybe spoiled by the way we played at the end of last year a lot of which had to do with Walker's exceptional passing skills.  The "hero ball" stuff comes as a result.  The difference is it seems when players go one on one they feel they have to and are doing it for the team while a couple of years ago it was guys doing for themselves.  At least that is the feeling I get.  Rider did a nice job of clogging the paint and making hustle plays on D which took away things we were trying to do.  The kick outs for open 3's were there in the first half and we took advantage, not sure what happened in the 2nd half.

4 hours ago, Tallbaby21 said:

Observations:

 

-Controlling the boards cures a lot of ills. 

-I still am not a fan of the auto-double in the post. There are very few college bigs who can hurt you, I get that maybe you can cause a turnover here and there but why put yourself into scramble mode if you don't have to.

-Boogie was a ball stopper on a few possessions when an extra pass would have meant an open shot. 

-We'll be able to win a bunch of games with D, rebounding, and making 3s, but the lack of playmaking, particularly at PG will be a constant problem. 

-One way to cover up a lack of playmaking is to get out run which we should be able to do with Allick and Mast sucking up rebounds. 

I’ve seen Boogie mentioned as a ball stopper by a few folks. So on my rewatch I specifically looked for ball sticking and specifically with Boogie. I can tell you that is not the case. The only time he took more than a couple dribbles was when they switched and he had a small guy he was backing down which Fred wants. He might not be real quick and he did take one forced 3 but he is not a ball stopper and is looking to make passes. JL is the better PG now though, if he can take better care of the ball and find his shot. In fact the team in whole move the ball pretty well. There were a couple forced shots (Keisei had a few) but overall good shots.

Our problem was sloppy ball handling, very lackadaisical passes, and not being strong with the ball. Add that to a poor shooting night and that is what you get. 
 

CJ played well on offense but that def was not good. Williams is just a good all around player. Once he finds his role I think his offense will take off. I really like Mast, strong and is a tough rebounder for someone with limited athleticism.

I'm surprised by the criticism of Brice Williams, he's a nice player. Such a smooth operator, I guess it looks like he's not trying... I think once Juwan Gary is in there, Brice won't have to play the 4 so much. That's been a tough one for Williams to tackle thus far in the paint. I think he'll be just fine, Brice is usually in the right spot, and generally makes the right play. He'll be a significant asset in bringing this team success going forward. GBR

2 hours ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

We are definitely not clicking on offense but that is to be expected with all the new faces.  We were maybe spoiled by the way we played at the end of last year a lot of which had to do with Walker's exceptional passing skills.  The "hero ball" stuff comes as a result.  The difference is it seems when players go one on one they feel they have to and are doing it for the team while a couple of years ago it was guys doing for themselves.  At least that is the feeling I get.  Rider did a nice job of clogging the paint and making hustle plays on D which took away things we were trying to do.  The kick outs for open 3's were there in the first half and we took advantage, not sure what happened in the 2nd half.

VERY TRUE

Couldn't watch last night, traveling but was able to listen to the second half......

Kent and Jake are a lot of fun.

Jake was in midseason form, angry at the officials and their inconsistency. Jake brought B1G Conference intensity.

Kent was a true grizzled vet rounding into form, easing into the season. Once called "got it" on a CJ airball. 

Line of the night was Jake complaining that Rienk's mask could not get knocked off his face by itself and that he had to be fouled. Kent responded that his CPAP mask seems to work its way off his face without much contact 

Sorry to join this discussion so late, but I made the crazy suggestion in the off-season that I would like to see KT coming off the bench.  I don’t love our offensive flow when he’s in the game necessarily.  And if our team identity is going to be defense, then don’t put him as a starter.

He’s obviously a weapon but I’m not convinced he needs to start to be effective. I like him better after toughness and defensive tone has been established, and then he comes in fresh off the bench and cleans up.

On that note, I really love our depth and like Boogie and Sam with the second group that comes in.  Once Gary is back I’d have him come in for Allick in the second group so you always have a high-energy rebounder on the court.  I think Mast will ultimately be our leading scorer on the year because we don’t really have a true backup for him…but I think Brice W is pretty good and will start to establish himself as the season wears on.

We are deep enough that we can have a bad night but then somebody down the rotation can carry us (Wilcher this game)

1 hour ago, OurDecay said:

Sorry to join this discussion so late, but I made the crazy suggestion in the off-season that I would like to see KT coming off the bench.  I don’t love our offensive flow when he’s in the game necessarily.  And if our team identity is going to be defense, then don’t put him as a starter.

 

He’s obviously a weapon but I’m not convinced he needs to start to be effective. I like him better after toughness and defensive tone has been established, and then he comes in fresh off the bench and cleans up.

 

On that note, I really love our depth and like Boogie and Sam with the second group that comes in.  Once Gary is back I’d have him come in for Allick in the second group so you always have a high-energy rebounder on the court.  I think Mast will ultimately be our leading scorer on the year because we don’t really have a true backup for him…but I think Brice W is pretty good and will start to establish himself as the season wears on.

 

We are deep enough that we can have a bad night but then somebody down the rotation can carry us (Wilcher this game)

I get what you are saying but CJ is not any better than KT on defense IMO and KT can just go on a burner at any point. Think Fred mentioned he scored 14 straight to start the Utah scrimmage. Don’t think we can waste a chance for a great start by having him on the bench. The great thing is if he has a bad start CJ can also come in and hit shots, depth is a great thing.

Just have a hard time not starting one of the best shooters in the country.

1 hour ago, OurDecay said:

Sorry to join this discussion so late, but I made the crazy suggestion in the off-season that I would like to see KT coming off the bench.  I don’t love our offensive flow when he’s in the game necessarily.  And if our team identity is going to be defense, then don’t put him as a starter.

 

He’s obviously a weapon but I’m not convinced he needs to start to be effective. I like him better after toughness and defensive tone has been established, and then he comes in fresh off the bench and cleans up.

 

On that note, I really love our depth and like Boogie and Sam with the second group that comes in.  Once Gary is back I’d have him come in for Allick in the second group so you always have a high-energy rebounder on the court.  I think Mast will ultimately be our leading scorer on the year because we don’t really have a true backup for him…but I think Brice W is pretty good and will start to establish himself as the season wears on.

 

We are deep enough that we can have a bad night but then somebody down the rotation can carry us (Wilcher this game)

I like when people have a different opinion than everyone else, especially when it is thoughtful. That said, I respectfully couldn't disagree more with you. Keisei's gravity can be a very useful tool to help others get going early, even if Keisei doesn't come out hot. A player who moves without the ball like Keisei strikes more fear into opposing coaches than any 7 footer does. It's a nightmare to try to get college kids to chase a guy like that around all game and stay disciplined. 

I appreciate both of those responses.  Good points made.  
 

I will say…in theory KT is one of the best shooters in America but I worry a bit if we caught lightning in a bottle down the stretch last year.  Outside that late run I don’t know that he was necessarily an elite shooter?  Potentially of course…but his production hasn’t matched his hype otherwise in his career.

He has a good chance to permanently shift that narrative this year…hope he does.

Keep in mind that Keisei is THE ONE player everone has to game plan towards.  As a result it opens things up for all others.  

One can argue that a team has to game plan for everyone...but Keisei is on a different level, especially when he is on.

While KT isn’t as gifted athletically, I noticed that his “instincts” really started to come along later in the year last year on the D end.  We’ve had multiple players fit that bill at times on that end of the floor.

If he continues to build on those instincts, it will continue to make up for some of the loss in athleticism.

27 minutes ago, OurDecay said:

I appreciate both of those responses.  Good points made.  
 

I will say…in theory KT is one of the best shooters in America but I worry a bit if we caught lightning in a bottle down the stretch last year.  Outside that late run I don’t know that he was necessarily an elite shooter?  Potentially of course…but his production hasn’t matched his hype otherwise in his career.

 

He has a good chance to permanently shift that narrative this year…hope he does.

I can see that thought but I believe he has proven to be an elite shooter at every level he has been at, except year 1 at Nebraska. It is very normal for juco guys to take a year to adjust to the big jump to P5. He was elite at Juco, he has been elite in international competition that has included some of the best teams in the world and he was damn near a 40,50,90 guy last year in the big ten.

I do worry he will try to do to much which we saw Monday, as that could be an issue. As you mentioned we have enough shooters he does not need to do that for us to be successful.

Speaking of C.J. Wilcher, here's how his brother Simeon is doing at St. John's in the early phase of this season.

St. John's has four games: (i) beat Rutgers in an exhibition 89-78, (ii) lost to Pace in an exhibition 59-63, (iii) beat Stoney Brook 90-74, and (iv) lost to Michigan 73-89.

• Against Rutgers, Simeon played 17 minutes, scored 3 points on 1-2 from three, with 2 rebounds, 5 fouls, 3 assists, 1 turnover and 1 block.
• Against Pace, Simeon played 17 minutes, scored 4 points on 2-6 from the floor and 0-3 from three, with 0 rebounds, 3 fouls, 0 assists, 1 turnover, 1 block and 1 steal. 
• Against Stoney Brook, Simeon played 9 minutes, scored 3 points on 1-1 from the floor and 1-2 from the line, with 1 foul, 1 turnover and 1 block.
• Against Michigan, Simeon played 9 minutes, scored 2 points on 1-2 from the floor, with 2 rebounds, 3 fouls, 1 assist, 2 turnovers and 1 block.

48 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

Speaking of C.J. Wilcher, here's how his brother Simeon is doing at St. John's in the early phase of this season.

St. John's has four games: (i) beat Rutgers in an exhibition 89-78, (ii) lost to Pace in an exhibition 59-63, (iii) beat Stoney Brook 90-74, and (iv) lost to Michigan 73-89.

• Against Rutgers, Simeon played 17 minutes, scored 3 points on 1-2 from three, with 2 rebounds, 5 fouls, 3 assists, 1 turnover and 1 block.
• Against Pace, Simeon played 17 minutes, scored 4 points on 2-6 from the floor and 0-3 from three, with 0 rebounds, 3 fouls, 0 assists, 1 turnover, 1 block and 1 steal. 
• Against Stoney Brook, Simeon played 9 minutes, scored 3 points on 1-1 from the floor and 1-2 from the line, with 1 foul, 1 turnover and 1 block.
• Against Michigan, Simeon played 9 minutes, scored 2 points on 1-2 from the floor, with 2 rebounds, 3 fouls, 1 assist, 2 turnovers and 1 block.

Here's to hoping he gets disgruntled with his lack of playing time on an underachieving team with a washed up coach. I believe Simeon will be an NBA point guard in a few years. 

Ah yes, bring on Simeon. He'd fit in well in Lincoln. GBR