GAME DAY THREAD NORTHWESTER VS HUSKERS 2-16-20

[kansashusker]

No offense taken HB.  I enjoy reading your opinions and those of others.    I know 12dozen, actual facts, bugs, redsteve, HUD and others are all frustrated.  I haven't said the criticism is grossly unfair or extreme.   I do think any reasonable mind should agree year 1 should not be held against the current staff as they inherited a mess caused by lots of factors that they had nothing to do with.  I think you have even previously agreed with me on that.

 

I disagree that we were elite in 15-16 season before Theriot got hurt.  The transfer we had that year had a harder time adjusting than people anticipated, and battled injuries; and our star freshman was 60 lbs overweight and scored 20 ppg but let it 28 ppg (I am making that number up i have no actual stat) plus she was causing friction with the players and coaches.  Our highly ranked soph recruiting class had already seen Kaylee Page and Chandler Smith transfer, leaving just Romeo plus jas, Darrien and a walk on.  

 

Re: why we don't have a WNBA kid currently.  Probably because there are only about 15-25 annually nationwide and they are darn hard to get.  We had a good run and had several, but when you lose the momentum just slightly the current "hot programs" (oregan, oregan state etc) pick them up along with the old guard (uconn baylor etc).  You also in the midwest have to get a little lucky and have a few grow up in your back yard and then keep them at home (ie - hooper and shepard)  One worked out great for us, the other not so much through no fault of anybody at University of Nebraska.   Look at K- states big run when Lehning, Wecker, Ohlde, Koehn etc all grew up in rural Kansas about the same time and went on to WNBA.  Kstate was great those years.  After that they have been good but not great.  its been much leaner for them when rural kansas dried up a little.  Traditionally girls don't go more than an adjoining state away to play college nearly as frequently as boys do. Obviously there are numerous exceptions, but per every 100 womens players compared to mens i guarantee you the distance where they play from home is much closer than on the mens side.

 

Coach Yori is and was and awesome coach.  I am a HUGE fan or her as a person and as a coach.  I don't think she or her staff had BCS/power 5 head coaching experience when they arrived either.   The current staff had zero to do with her departure.  Any frustration with the transition should be always earmarked for the former AD.

 

I agree we desperately need a PG.  The staff has been in the final 2 or 3 schools on several high level ones the last couple of years but unfortunately they have gone else where  I am sure the staff is more frustrated than anybody on this board.  They have skin in the game and it effects their occupation and families.  I agree with 12dozen that the staff represents NU with high class in all they do and stand for.  I care about them and really want them to succeed.

Edited February 18, 2020 by kansashusker

[All About the Corn]

I would not get to hung up on WNBA talent. Yes Kelsey Jordan, and Lindsey all made it to the WNBA. With Kelsey, they tried to make her a 3 forward and she really is a 4 forward. Her game is closer to the basket. When injuries forced Conn. to play her in her natural position she did well. She has found great success down under. Jordan has had moments in the WNBA but has had better success overseas. Lindsey spent really only one year in the WNBA and was lucky enough to be part of a championship team. Yes it is nice to have talent that gets considered for the WNBA but I think you really have to fit into the way they play the game to be successful in that league. I do think we have maybe one or two currently that could be successful in the WNBA. I do think we have enough talent here to be successful. Yes we are missing some pieces namely a PG but I do think we could be doing more with what we have. 

[HB]

2 hours ago, kansashusker said:

No offense taken HB.  I enjoy reading your opinions and those of others.    I know 12dozen, actual facts, bugs, redsteve, HUD and others are all frustrated.  I haven't said the criticism is grossly unfair or extreme.   I do think any reasonable mind should agree year 1 should not be held against the current staff as they inherited a mess caused by lots of factors that they had nothing to do with.  I think you have even previously agreed with me on that.

 

I disagree that we were elite in 15-16 season before Theriot got hurt.  The transfer we had that year had a harder time adjusting than people anticipated, and battled injuries; and our star freshman was 60 lbs overweight and scored 20 ppg but let it 28 ppg (I am making that number up i have no actual stat) plus she was causing friction with the players and coaches.  Our highly ranked soph recruiting class had already seen Kaylee Page and Chandler Smith transfer, leaving just Romeo plus jas, Darrien and a walk on.  

 

Re: why we don't have a WNBA kid currently.  Probably because there are only about 15-25 annually nationwide and they are darn hard to get.  We had a good run and had several, but when you lose the momentum just slightly the current "hot programs" (oregan, oregan state etc) pick them up along with the old guard (uconn baylor etc).  You also in the midwest have to get a little lucky and have a few grow up in your back yard and then keep them at home (ie - hooper and shepard)  One worked out great for us, the other not so much through no fault of anybody at University of Nebraska.   Look at K- states big run when Lehning, Wecker, Ohlde, Koehn etc all grew up in rural Kansas about the same time and went on to WNBA.  Kstate was great those years.  After that they have been good but not great.  its been much leaner for them when rural kansas dried up a little.  Traditionally girls don't go more than an adjoining state away to play college nearly as frequently as boys do. Obviously there are numerous exceptions, but per every 100 womens players compared to mens i guarantee you the distance where they play from home is much closer than on the mens side.

 

Coach Yori is and was and awesome coach.  I am a HUGE fan or her as a person and as a coach.  I don't think she or her staff had BCS/power 5 head coaching experience when they arrived either.   The current staff had zero to do with her departure.  Any frustration with the transition should be always earmarked for the former AD.

 

I agree we desperately need a PG.  The staff has been in the final 2 or 3 schools on several high level ones the last couple of years but unfortunately they have gone else where  I am sure the staff is more frustrated than anybody on this board.  They have skin in the game and it effects their occupation and families.  I agree with 12dozen that the staff represents NU with high class in all they do and stand for.  I care about them and really want them to succeed.

 

Good post.  But you misread my comments about "elite".   I was referring to the state of the program the prior 5 years or so, not the '15-'16 team.   We had making the Dance consistently, won regular season and conference titles, made a couple of Sweet 16s, and had an outstanding recruiting class signed.  Reputation across women's basketball was stellar, for success both on and off the court.   It was one of the very few sports in which we were competitive in the then new Big 10 conference.   

 

I wouldn't remotely compare the experience levels of Yori and her staff when hired with this staff.   Not even close.   Yori had won a conference title and made 2 NCAA tournaments at the mid-major level.  By her second year here,  she had an assistant who had coached 3 years at Old Dominion and been a mid major head coach for 5 years.  Others within the first few years had been assistants at Bradley, Washington, Washington State, and Cal.   Just a perplexing move by Eichorst at the time, and by Amy in not adding more experience when hired.   We had the money to do it.   Again, it may work out, it may not, but it was not a move in keeping with the status of our program at the time.  But yes, that's not this staff's fault, and this University and its supporters should NEVER forget what the Chancellor and a rogue AD did to our athletic department.   I get the sentiment of "can't we just move on from that disaster?", but it should never be allowed to happen again and thus we can never forget.   

 

We all agree this staff has coaches who are also great people and who do things the right way.    They deserve respect and admiration for that.   We all care about them and hope they succeed.    But eventually we'll have to do better on the court and in recruiting than we have the last couple of years.    IF they do, then I suspect most of the concerns expressed here will be soon forgotten and all will be happy  (It could still even happen this year; I would not be shocked if we go on a run).    If not, well, I doubt Moos tolerates mediocrity or worse for long.    Which is just how it is at this level--eventually you gotta be better than what we've been seeing.   And we all hope we will be. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by HB

[Merlin]

We probably need to add a top flight recruiter to the staff. We’ve been close as said but close doesn’t win in Power 5. 
I might be wrong here but Connie had a pretty good recruiter in Sunny Smallwood?

[HUD]

7 hours ago, 12dozen said:

Agree, comparisons to our volleyball program, is not realistic

I'm not saying that we should compare our WBB team to our VB team.  They have been on different levels for many years.  All I was saying is Cook has a great talent to develop leadership.  There are some great examples of walk-on's in his program becoming great leaders.

[swmckewon]

Nebraska recruited...pretty good in the first two classes. I don't know that Brown and Haiby were ranked as Top 100, per se, but they've been really good through two years. Cain and Kissinger have tracked pretty well to this point. Bourne's clearly talented and would have been a top 100 recruit were she an American. Porter, too. 

 

Generally, I think NW/Indiana/Minnesota/Nebraska...that's all about the same talent level most years. NCAA Tournament bids hinge on half-court execution and hitting 3s. 

 

Now, if you're talking Maryland/Ohio State? Yeah, that's a different level. Maryland has built in geographic and tradition advantages; the team's top four players all live within 70 miles of the school. Ohio State made a...calculated...decision to hire the father of an eventual four-time All-American and pay him 134,000 per year for 4 years to be an assistant coach. But it worked and shaped the program. (It's worth noting OSU's top two posts are European recruits.)

 

And I'd argue Michigan/Michigan State have more talented parts that tend not, for whatever reason, to add up to a greater sum. 

 

Purdue's hitting a hard reset button after this year. 

 

Invariably, Iowa's in the conversation, and that's fair. We'll see if they're at the tail end of their McCarville/Whalen era with Gustafson and Doyle, or if the next recruiting class keeps it going. Iowa's done a good job of going from Sam Logic to Doyle to perhaps Clark, who comes in next year. 

 

As for Nebraska...yeah, when it went, at PG, from Moore to Theriot to Romeo transferring to Doyle backing out...that was a hard transition. And it doesn't feel like the position has been great in the last two years. Because I think Jordan Hoopers are very, very rare - the versatility and output of her game, the fact that the best player had a personality that could complement any kind of coaching, any kind of teammate, any injury - you have to find great guards who can win late. Cain's had a stronger year than even her stats would suggest, but college basketball is a guard game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[whoopdeedoo]

i'd be willing to bet iowa will be a top 5 team next season. heckuva of a triple they will put on the floor with Czinano, Warnock, and Clarke. Sevillian also returns. not sure how the depth will pan out, but, bet it's just fine. i watched an interview with Clarke tuesday nite. it must have been after one of her games in iowa city. very, very impressive in front of the camera. another bet: she has fans saying "Kathleen who?" (well, ok, maybe not quite....but, i think Clarke's play will be better than Doyle's.)

[Cazzie22]

5 hours ago, swmckewon said:

Nebraska recruited...pretty good in the first two classes. I don't know that Brown and Haiby were ranked as Top 100, per se, but they've been really good through two years. Cain and Kissinger have tracked pretty well to this point. Bourne's clearly talented and would have been a top 100 recruit were she an American. Porter, too. 

 

Generally, I think NW/Indiana/Minnesota/Nebraska...that's all about the same talent level most years. NCAA Tournament bids hinge on half-court execution and hitting 3s. 

 

Now, if you're talking Maryland/Ohio State? Yeah, that's a different level. Maryland has built in geographic and tradition advantages; the team's top four players all live within 70 miles of the school. Ohio State made a...calculated...decision to hire the father of an eventual four-time All-American and pay him 134,000 per year for 4 years to be an assistant coach. But it worked and shaped the program. (It's worth noting OSU's top two posts are European recruits.)

 

And I'd argue Michigan/Michigan State have more talented parts that tend not, for whatever reason, to add up to a greater sum. 

 

Purdue's hitting a hard reset button after this year. 

 

Invariably, Iowa's in the conversation, and that's fair. We'll see if they're at the tail end of their McCarville/Whalen era with Gustafson and Doyle, or if the next recruiting class keeps it going. Iowa's done a good job of going from Sam Logic to Doyle to perhaps Clark, who comes in next year. 

 

As for Nebraska...yeah, when it went, at PG, from Moore to Theriot to Romeo transferring to Doyle backing out...that was a hard transition. And it doesn't feel like the position has been great in the last two years. Because I think Jordan Hoopers are very, very rare - the versatility and output of her game, the fact that the best player had a personality that could complement any kind of coaching, any kind of teammate, any injury - you have to find great guards who can win late. Cain's had a stronger year than even her stats would suggest, but college basketball is a guard game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What about Northwestern?  They clearly have talent.

[swmckewon]

On 2/19/2020 at 3:54 PM, Cazzie22 said:

What about Northwestern?  They clearly have talent.

5 Top 100 recruits in the program vs. 3 for Nebraska, plus whatever you want to label Bourne. Not that rankings are everything. 

[whoopdeedoo]

wonder if Bourne will work on the mid-range jumper (and closer) once the season is over? i am not big on her taking perimeter shots. i believe she is at 21% now.

[Bugeaters1]

1 minute ago, whoopdeedoo said:

wonder if Bourne will work on the mid-range jumper (and closer) once the season is over? i am not big on her taking perimeter shots. i believe she is at 21% now.

I think she would be better at the 15' and in jump shot. don't know that she was brought in to score much though. more board work than anything else IMO.

 

[HB]

12 minutes ago, whoopdeedoo said:

wonder if Bourne will work on the mid-range jumper (and closer) once the season is over? i am not big on her taking perimeter shots. i believe she is at 21% now.

 

Going through a really rough stretch; need to get her going.   Only played 5 minutes today. 

[Bugeaters1]

10 minutes ago, HB said:

 

Going through a really rough stretch; need to get her going.   Only played 5 minutes today. 

Could be she was under the weather.