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What it really costs to build a championship caliber team

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cornfed24-7

cornfed24-7

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:09 PM, hskr4life said:

This argument seems a little moot considering NIL collectives will still be a thing no? There are plenty of volleyball private donors Iā€™m sure. This distribution is only referencing what the university allocated money will go to which probably pales in comparison to what collectives will become.

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Yeah I'm just debating to debate here šŸ˜

 

I agree. It's also why I think @FredsSlackshas a solid idea on giving a big chunk to the Mens basketball program. 

 

 

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millerhusker
millerhusker

The roster was constructed pretty damn well in 22-23, but an all-american was removed from the equation just before school started. Keyontae Johnson had a freaking apartment picked out in Lincoln befo

hhcmatt
hhcmatt

Can tell you we have significantly less NIL than Indiana who we beat and significantly more NIL than Minnesota and we lost.  Dick-measuring the amount of money we can burn on this program isn't going

hhcmatt
hhcmatt

We're out of the B1G tourney because we lost to almost all the other 7-13 teams in conference. Not imagining that Iowa, Minnesota, or Northwestern have more NIL than us.  You look at the guys USC recr

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OmahaHusker

OmahaHusker

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:09 PM, hskr4life said:

This argument seems a little moot considering NIL collectives will still be a thing no? There are plenty of volleyball private donors Iā€™m sure. This distribution is only referencing what the university allocated money will go to which probably pales in comparison to what collectives will become.

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I personally think donations go down once rev share is allowed. Boosters have to have fatigue from giving as much as they are being asked at this point. From the stadium reno to the football team to now the other programs. 

cornfed24-7

cornfed24-7

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:15 PM, OmahaHusker said:

 

I personally think donations go down once rev share is allowed. Boosters have to have fatigue from giving as much as they are being asked at this point. From the stadium reno to the football team to now the other programs. 

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Multiple people havea made the comments about how this thing has to stabilize eventually and I agree. 

 

Because right now this situation has the same feeling as the late 90's dot com bust or the 00's housing crash. 

 

Money's getting tight for everyone across the board. And unfortunately we didn't get the eccentric billionaire that spends we got the prudent billionaire that saves šŸ˜•

nustudent

nustudent

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:04 PM, cornfed24-7 said:

You wouldn't sure. Neither would I. I should make clear I am not a volleyball fan. Don't care much for the sport. 

But if you don't see the importance to the University in maintaining the caliber of program that is Nebraska Volleyball nothing I'm going to say will persuade you. 

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I'm not saying it's not important.  But all it takes is one sweet 16 run in basketball to offset that real quick.   And I still think there is a monetary value to everything.  If you have one of the top 2-3 volleyball programs in the country and you are still that far behind the men's basketball team who is nothing....the value can only be carried so far.  And god forbid that value drops with Cook stepping away....

nustudent

nustudent

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:09 PM, Nebrasketball1979 said:

 

I do believe this will ring true.  It would not surprise me in the least if the Volleyball team received a higher proportion of revenue share than the raw data and numbers would indicate. 

 

The team wins and Nebraskans have shown over and over and over that they will go above and beyond to support a winner.  Perhaps more importantly and to cornfed's point, one area where a value is hard to pin down, is the benefit the school receives from the added exposure and potential future enrollment.  There are stories that can easily be found about how Alabama's out of state attendance is up an absurd amount over the past 20 years.  The reason - Nick Saban - and students, not football players, enrolling at a university that wins and is always seen on TV.  Nebraska volleyball won't have the impact of Alabama football but to dismiss that potential impact and how that plays into the AD's NIL allocation strategy would be akin to missing the forest through the trees.

 

If the above is true, the one sport that probably does suffer is men's basketball.  It won't be football for obvious reasons.  This is where you hope 1890 steps in, bridges the gap and infuses additional funds to ensure we are a consistent top half of the Big 10 funded program.

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I think the VB team will get a higher % than 95% of other VB teams.   But I still think it falls into that 'Other' Category.   It's not going to take away from Football or Men's Basketball.   That's bad business.   Those programs have underperfomed but are still the two most prominant programs in the AD.   And their ceiling is so much higher than where they are at now.   

It's going to take away from Baseball, Women's Hoops, Wrestling, etc.   Those programs don't have the ceiling or impact that Football or MBB do.   That's smart business.

Edited by nustudent
cornfed24-7

cornfed24-7

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:31 PM, nustudent said:

That's bad business

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I truly believe, at this moment and time, Nebraska is the only college you can make the argument it's not bad business. 

 

Edit to add and that really the biggest dig you can make at how unsuccessful our basketball program has been

 

 

Edited by cornfed24-7
nustudent

nustudent

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:34 PM, cornfed24-7 said:

I truly believe, at this moment and time, Nebraska is the only college you can make the argument it's not bad business. 

 

Edit to add and that really the biggest dig you can make at how unsuccessful our basketball program has been

 

 

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It's bad business if you are taking away from other more profitable programs and not taking from other less profitable and otherwise lower ceiling programs.   (I.E   Taking away from men's hoops while not taking away from women's hoops or track and field, etc)

Volleyball's reputation is pretty much as high as it can be...and it's still well behind MBB....a perennial underachiever.   Don't handcuff your #2 sport to invest in a sport with a semi-capped ceiling when you have plenty of others who also don't perform/have a very low ceiling.

Especially when you already have an elite level NIL program outside the university for VB

Edited by nustudent
cornfed24-7

cornfed24-7

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:39 PM, nustudent said:

It's bad business if you are taking away from other more profitable programs and not taking from other less profitable and otherwise lower ceiling programs.   (I.E   Taking away from men's hoops while not taking away from women's hoops or track and field, etc)

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But this is the circular argument not everything is captured on a balance sheet.

 

Bad business is also throwing good money after bad. And nobody outside of us here on this board would argue that's not what has been happening with Nebraska Basketball. 

 

 

nustudent

nustudent

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:46 PM, cornfed24-7 said:

But this is the circular argument not everything is captured on a balance sheet.

 

Bad business is also throwing good money after bad. And nobody outside of us here on this board would argue that's not what has been happening with Nebraska Basketball. 

 

 

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At some point in time it is though.   When a 'bad product' is worth 10x as much as a 'great product'.....how much is the 'great product' really worth?   And what happens if that great product ever takes a step back or the bad product takes a step forward.

 

Throwing more money at the VB program isn't going to make it more profitable.  It's pretty close to being capped because it's already at a pinnacle.   Men's BB can grow at lot more.   

 

And again....you can give more to VB without taking from MBB.

Norm Peterson

Norm Peterson

Posted
Posted

Husker volleyball doesn't have to compete for recruits with Husker men's basketball. It has to compete with other volleyball teams. If they don't get 10% of the revenue share, who's going to outspend them?

 

Volleyball has such a committed fanbase here, they could literally run their own 1890 and be able to outspend virtually any other program in the nation.

Nebrasketball1979

Nebrasketball1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:49 PM, nustudent said:

At some point in time it is though.   When a 'bad product' is worth 10x as much as a 'great product'.....how much is the 'great product' really worth?   And what happens if that great product ever takes a step back or the bad product takes a step forward.

 

Throwing more money at the VB program isn't going to make it more profitable.  It's pretty close to being capped because it's already at a pinnacle.   Men's BB can grow at lot more.   

 

And again....you can give more to VB without taking from MBB.

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In a vacuum, I completely agree with you.  You also are likely correct that any added money is coming out of a different pot than basketball but I don't think that is definitive.  I just think the one aspect that is not captured in this discussion is the intangible benefits that will come from the exposure and potentially future enrollment bumps.  Maybe it doesn't amount to much but let's say an additional 25 students (or girls who grew up as big fans) enroll at Nebraska in 2030 as out of state enrollees.  In today's dollars, that an extra $700K of tuition for the school.  I have no idea if that's too high or way too low but there is a value there to the University that simply cannot be captured in just gate sales and concessions.  Could basketball have this same impact if they become great?  Of course...that just seems like a looong ways out based off historical precedence!

 

Ironically, when my son and I last attended a game, we always make a habit of stopping by the book store to stock up on apparel.  We were pretty much set on basketball and football stuff so what did we buy...volleyball shirts/sweatshirts.  For a women's team, they are pretty transcendent and it's remarkable they can have cross appeal to men and women alike, which is a rarity for women's sports (Caitlyn Clark not withstanding).  There is absolutely value in that and likely quite a bit.

Edited by Nebrasketball1979
cornfed24-7

cornfed24-7

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:49 PM, nustudent said:

At some point in time it is though.   When a 'bad product' is worth 10x as much as a 'great product'.....how much is the 'great product' really worth?   And what happens if that great product ever takes a step back or the bad product takes a step forward.

 

Throwing more money at the VB program isn't going to make it more profitable.  It's pretty close to being capped because it's already at a pinnacle.   Men's BB can grow at lot more.   

 

And again....you can give more to VB without taking from MBB.

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No question basketball has more potential. The athletic department has shown no ability to recognize that potential. 

 

Not sure if you're a football fan or not, but at a minimum you are aware. And it's quite shocking you discounting how easy it is for a program on top fall into relative insignificance šŸ˜‚

hhcmatt

hhcmatt

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 5:32 PM, Vinny said:

Or a basketball arena that averages 50% capacity.

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Revenue share from an university is 1) How much are you going to revenue share and 2) How will you split that among your programs

 

This site and specifically this chart proved pretty helpful to me.

 

https://nil-ncaa.com/

image.png

 

It's football and basketball for sure but after that hockey projects to be the biggest $$ item. It's not nothing for sure. 

 

One thing to note that has already been noted in this model is that football is very expensive which is why non-football schools in the Big East will be at an advantage in terms of revenue sharing. 

nustudent

nustudent

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 7:01 PM, Nebrasketball1979 said:

 

In a vacuum, I completely agree with you.  You also are likely correct that any added money is coming out of a different pot than basketball but I don't think that is definitive.  I just think the one aspect that is not captured in this discussion is the intangible benefits that will come from the exposure and potentially future enrollment bumps.  Maybe it doesn't amount to much but let's say an additional 25 students (or girls who grew up as big fans) enroll at Nebraska in 2030 as out of state enrollees.  In today's dollars, that an extra $700K of tuition for the school.  I have no idea if that's too high or way too low but there is a value there to the University that simply cannot be captured in just gate sales and concessions.  Could basketball have this same impact if they become great?  Of course...that just seems like a looong ways out based off historical precedence!

 

Ironically, when my son and I last attended a game, we always make a habit of stopping by the book store to stock up on apparel.  We were pretty much set on basketball and football stuff so what did we buy...volleyball shirts/sweatshirts.  For a women's team, they are pretty transcendent and it's remarkable they can have cross appeal to men and women alike, which is a rarity for women's sports (Caitlyn Clark not withstanding).  There is absolutely value in that and likely quite a bit.

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I understand your point and I get that. But $700,000 five or six years from now isnā€™t very much.    Menā€™s basketball can learn that in one weekend in March. It doesnā€™t need to become great to do it. It needs one good weekend.   

GhostOfJoeMcCray

GhostOfJoeMcCray

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 6:49 PM, nustudent said:

At some point in time it is though.   When a 'bad product' is worth 10x as much as a 'great product'.....how much is the 'great product' really worth?   And what happens if that great product ever takes a step back or the bad product takes a step forward.

 

Throwing more money at the VB program isn't going to make it more profitable.  It's pretty close to being capped because it's already at a pinnacle.   Men's BB can grow at lot more.   

 

And again....you can give more to VB without taking from MBB.

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Is volleyball capped though? Itā€™s feasible they could move to PBA permanently someday and sell out every match with ticket prices the same or more as MBB. 

nustudent

nustudent

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/25/2025 at 7:13 PM, GhostOfJoeMcCray said:


Is volleyball capped though? Itā€™s feasible they could move to PBA permanently someday and sell out every match with ticket prices the same or more as MBB. 

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I suppose thatā€™s possible.   But itā€™s also possible that DBK is the Solich to Cookā€™s Osborne.   
 

Iā€™m not saying she is, but both of those are pretty big what ifs.   but itā€™s probably more likely that things fall off a little bit with her then all of a sudden doubling what was happening under what is considered arguably the greatest volleyball coach of all time.  
 

Whatā€™s not a big what if is the money that menā€™s basketball brings in from the TV deal.   womenā€™s volleyball will never do that    

Edited by nustudent
nustudent

nustudent

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/25/2025 at 7:19 PM, cornfed24-7 said:

But don't we get that regardless if we're good or bad?

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We do.   Thatā€™s the point.    One team is at its pinnacle and the other team is the opposite. And yet itā€™s still worth that much more.    God forbid Nebraska ever performs in basketball. If it does that gaps only go wide it by a significant advantage.    
 

Nevraska can go 0-20 it conference play next year and it still gives me worth $10 million more per year than the volleyball program.    If Nebraska ever makes it to the round of 32 or a sweet 16 or the volleyball program falls off at all, that gap is going wide significantly.

Edited by nustudent
cornfed24-7

cornfed24-7

Posted
Posted
  On 3/25/2025 at 7:21 PM, nustudent said:

We do.   Thatā€™s the point.    One team is at its pinnacle and the other team is the opposite. And yet itā€™s still worth that much more.    God forbid Nebraska ever performs in basketball. If it does that gaps only go wide it by a significant advantage.    

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So what you're saying is it's the unmeasurables that matter because regardless what either team does the TV contracts are set in stone? šŸ˜

nustudent

nustudent

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/25/2025 at 7:24 PM, cornfed24-7 said:

So what you're saying is it's the unmeasurables that matter because regardless what either team does the TV contracts are set in stone? šŸ˜

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There are still unmeasurables at play.    What Iā€™m saying is is that one program is maxing out those unmeasurableā€™s while the other isnā€™t.   If those ever change the gap wide and significantly.    
 

No matter how good volleyball is or how good basketball is, volleyball will never make more money than the basketball team    so donā€™t take from them     Take from the other programs and operate in the red 

 

and letā€™s also remember that if Nebraska ever makes and performs in the NCAA tournament, they make more money than what they already do.   

Edited by nustudent

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