Only for the die hards

[cornfed24-7]

1 hour ago, 49r said:

 

I don't think we'd be all that excited honestly, improving to 4-9 in 2022 for us would mean a 10-15 overall record and still WAY on the outside of the NIT bubble (probably KenPom in the 120's or so)...the calls for Fred's job might not be as loud, but there would be lots of grumbling for sure.

To piggy back off this. IF 10-15 was the record I could at least consider the argument that Hoiberg was developing players and him coaching next year was worth it because you could see progress. That however is not the case. Its year 3 and this is his worst team.

[49r]

19 minutes ago, cornfed24-7 said:

To piggy back off this. IF 10-15 was the record I could at least consider the argument that Hoiberg was developing players and him coaching next year was worth it because you could see progress. That however is not the case. Its year 3 and this is his worst team.

 

I'm not necessarily defending Fred here, but it's looking like the narrative earlier in the season that his success at Iowa State was all Otz is looking more and more like a false one all the time.  I mean, heck, look at Ben Johnson.  He also started off at Minnesota looking like a potential COTY candidate, and now not so much.  The Gophs are 2-9 in 2022 after squeaking past Penn State at home Saturday.  Better record than us sure...but we have the H2H.

[cornfed24-7]

29 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

I'm not necessarily defending Fred here, but it's looking like the narrative earlier in the season that his success at Iowa State was all Otz is looking more and more like a false one all the time.  I mean, heck, look at Ben Johnson.  He also started off at Minnesota looking like a potential COTY candidate, and now not so much.  The Gophs are 2-9 in 2022 after squeaking past Penn State at home Saturday.  Better record than us sure...but we have the H2H.

Yeah. I don't really ever buy that narrative. I didn't with Miles and I don't with Hoiberg. To me if the buck stops with the head guy I give them the credit too. Thats not to discount assistant coaches. As a leader in anything you want to hire people that will be sought after by others. 

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, 49r said:

 

I'm not necessarily defending Fred here, but it's looking like the narrative earlier in the season that his success at Iowa State was all Otz is looking more and more like a false one all the time.  I mean, heck, look at Ben Johnson.  He also started off at Minnesota looking like a potential COTY candidate, and now not so much.  The Gophs are 2-9 in 2022 after squeaking past Penn State at home Saturday.  Better record than us sure...but we have the H2H.

 

It's not that Fred doesn't have Otz as much as he doesn't have a guy like Otz who likely was the sheriff of accountability while at Iowa St. Not sure if Otz will run a perennial power at ISU but his ability to change his style based on his roster seems like a good sign for his future success.

 

As far as Johnson goes, the impressive thing about him was winning some of the games he did with the roster he has in year one.  Time will tell what sort of coach he is once he starts filling the roster with that pool of local talent.

[Art Vandalay]

On 2/14/2022 at 3:06 PM, Norm Peterson said:

 

I still don't get the argument that the portal would have been especially difficult for us to navigate in year 1.

 

Sure, Fred had been out of the college game a few years, but Matt A hadn't been. And Fred could boast having been an NBA coach returning to the college game where he'd enjoyed significant success. And, yet, look who we got out of the portal that year: Matej Kavas and Haanif Cheatham both ranked outside the top 30 impact grad transfers.

 

As far as sit-out transfers, Dalano Banton ranked #40, but Shamiel Stevenson and Derrick Walker didn't rank at all, even among the honorable mention.

 

I mean, a guy whose reputation involves working the transfer portal got worked.

 

College basketball transfer rankings for 2019-20 and 2020-21 (espn.com)

 

And if you think it got better in year 2 ...

 

Kobe Webster was #37 for grad transfers (which seems about right) and our sit-out transfers included #6 Trey McGowens (overrated) and #9 Kobe King (who didn't show up) and that's pretty much it.

 

Do you want to talk about the great success we've had with juco transfers?

 To me expecting a guy to come back to college, move to a new town, hire a new staff, figure out if he has any players worth keeping and still pull a top portal team in a month or two is not reasonable or expected. Especially here with no history or other big names guys they could come play with and be successful. Could it be done? Sure but not likely IMO

 

whatever though, I guess we see it different and doesn’t change why we are so bad today.