What I think happened - and, dare I say - a Solution?

[Dean Smith]

And, by the way, here's another good video with Hakeem the Dream that Walter should study:

 

I like the jump hook to the middle. I think players should be able to go both ways into the middle but lots of guys don't like the left-handed jump hook. I don't like the step through as the counter to the jump hook. If they step up hard to take that away, draw the contact and immediately spin away into a double drop - foot to the front of the rim - layup. That's not a spin move, its two steps - drop step middle, bump and then drop step back baseline. If they manage to drop and push you out on the double drop, now I up and under.

 

The second move he showed the first time was a fade away but I think he did that once to them show the better move - his famous Dream shake. The rest was Sikma moves where he could face and rip and spin where his balance and quickness was so much better than most trying to guard him.

 

I really like his talk of knowing what you are going to do and have a counter if they take you first choice away. That was Dean Smith/Roy Williams. And your favorite and counter don't have to be the same from both blocks. Now remember the first option is drop step either way, if that is taken away go to your favorite move, if that is not there then counter, not there either then kick it out and repost. One of my better posts from the left block did the right handed jump hook as his favorite and then countered with a double drop if they took that away. From the right block he didn't like his left handed jump hook. So he would immediately double drop middle to baseline and if that was taken away his counter was to shot fake, up and under ripping back to the front of the rim and flipping up the little left handed layup.

 

Drill the drop step, get one move from each side and then its counter. No, post moves are not that hard and we (and most of the rest of the world) should be better at post moves. I don't remember that last high school post player I saw that actually went through a post progression and knew post moves.

[hhctony]

But speaking of "moves in his arsenal", Normie, Walt's Rail-yard moves are unparalleled.  

 

I saw Walt at state hoops in the Arena and later on the sidewalk outside Jimmy Johns. He was walking around like a guy who didn't care about the season he just had. I don't want to necessarily call him out, but you just got the hunch that he is in complete "don't care" mode. About basketball. About school. About life. I hope I was completely misreading him.

[Norm Peterson]

Thanks for that, Dean.

 

I'm not patting myself on the back but I do want to say I like these videos and am glad I found them for a couple of reasons.

 

First, shows good footwork and a series of moves.  Second, shows that they can be practiced and developed just on your own with no defender and, really, without anyone even feeding you the ball.  Slap it like you just received it and then execute the move.

 

To amplify something Dean said, you need to practice the moves so that they become second nature in games.  You get the ball and you just automatically know what you're going to do with it and, if that's not there, then you immediately go to your counter move.

 

I think a lot of lack of quickness in a post player can be made up for on the offensive end just with decisiveness.  There's a spot in the 2nd video where Hakeem alludes to this.  He talks about how he lands from making the catch and he's immediately drop-stepping to the basket.  Just, boom, he's already around the guy before he even has to think what he's going to do.

 

The sad part of some of the discussion above is that Walt could be so good at this.  He has the tools.

[49r]

**

[49r]

 

But speaking of "moves in his arsenal", Normie, Walt's Rail-yard moves are unparalleled.  

 

I saw Walt at state hoops in the Arena and later on the sidewalk outside Jimmy Johns. He was walking around like a guy who didn't care about the season he just had. I don't want to necessarily call him out, but you just got the hunch that he is in complete "don't care" mode. About basketball. About school. About life. I hope I was completely misreading him.

 

 

I think he cares plenty about the ladies, Tony...

[Silverbacked1]

I think that Walt is that one friend who is either really really happy, or really really down. Not like he is bipolar but is pretty happy go lucky or gumpy old man.

Just the vibe I get from him from watching him at games.

[hhctony]

jones -- I think a bunch of basketball coaches could maybe learn from Creighton Prep coach Josh Luedtke. I'm sick of the shot clock debate in prep basketball. We don't need a shot clock; we need coaches who let their kids play and teach skill development. Even DONU got a little bit programmed this year, it seemed to me. I don't know....

 

"I have to let them be them. Early in my career, I probably tried to control it a little bit too much," said Creighton Prep coach Josh Luedtke. "Basketball is about playing and reacting. It's not about thinking.

 

"We had to be the aggressor. We were kind of sitting back. I told the guys this is not how we play. This is the old Prep. The new Prep is go be yourselves, run and have fun, and that's what they did."

 

It meant Luedtke had to give a little and make some fundamental changes.

 

"I told them to play defense the way I want you to play, rebound and then run and do whatever you want, but just share the ball," he said. "They did a great job."

[Norm Peterson]

 

 

Watching the Akeem and Amare video it really shows you the difference between Hall of Fame talent and NBA talent. Amare is a good NBA player and I understand he is learning from Olajuwon, but the footwork and body control of Akeem even at 50+ is so much better than Amare (and 99% of current NBA players)

He shows you how to go to a right hook from either side of the lane. He calls it your bread and butter move. He shows you what to do if they try to take the hook away. He shows the fadeaway jumper and explains how you create space with it.

Do you see anything in there that a college level center couldn't master with just a little bit of practice?

Seriously.

I want someone to explain to me why our 6'10" starting center doesn't have these moves in his arsenal.

When basketballjones says improve on a weakness, here ya go Walt. Anywhere that you have a basket and a ball, you could hone these moves. Doesn't even need to be anyone else around.

Because he doesn't want them.

He has clearly shown us he doesn't want to play down low, nor does he want to improve his post game.

We all want him to want to, but I see no evidence of that desire from Walt.

He wants to shoot threes; that's about it.

 

Sadly, I think you might be right.  Sad especially because we need an offensive post presence and he has the ability to be that guy.

[basketballjones]

Do you see anything in there that a college level center couldn't master with just a little bit of practice?

In ten years were going to look back at the centers who are in the NBA right now and have a hearty laugh.

1995-1996 All-Star Centers: Kemp, Olajuwon, David Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Zo

2014-2015 All-Star Centers: Pau Gasol, Al Horford, Millisap, Marc Gasol, Aldridge, seasoned Tim Duncan.

The center position died about 20 years ago and we are now seeing the ramifications of it. I personally believe we will be seeing a big man renaissance very soon. Theres a thousand reasons the position was bastardized so much, but nonetheless it still remains the second most important position on the floor in my opinion (I think a great PG is the most valuable thing anyone can have). If you have a dominant big man you will win a lot.

We've failed as coaches to teach our bigs the proper skill sets to dominate the post.

[basketballjones]

jones -- I think a bunch of basketball coaches could maybe learn from Creighton Prep coach Josh Luedtke. I'm sick of the shot clock debate in prep basketball. We don't need a shot clock; we need coaches who let their kids play and teach skill development. Even DONU got a little bit programmed this year, it seemed to me. I don't know....

"I have to let them be them. Early in my career, I probably tried to control it a little bit too much," said Creighton Prep coach Josh Luedtke. "Basketball is about playing and reacting. It's not about thinking.

"We had to be the aggressor. We were kind of sitting back. I told the guys this is not how we play. This is the old Prep. The new Prep is go be yourselves, run and have fun, and that's what they did."

It meant Luedtke had to give a little and make some fundamental changes.

"I told them to play defense the way I want you to play, rebound and then run and do whatever you want, but just share the ball," he said. "They did a great job."

Eh..... I for sure see what you're saying, Tony, but to win games some teams have to control the clock. You can't teach everyone to play like that. If I had Drew Homa, their point guard, and the Pritchard kid I'd probably let them go rogue too... Very few people have that.

And for what it's worth, he says that, but they run a wide variety of stuff. He certainly gives them plenty of freedom on missed baskets and steals, but they for sure have a system, actions, sets, and principles in the half court. It's not like they're playing YMCA ball out there.

But I certainly know what you mean. However, I warn you - if you ever thought there was a competitive imbalance in Nebraska HS basketball, it will be dramatically increased with the shot clock. Good teams will just look better. And, for what it's worth, I'm all for the shot clock, but I'm not sure even the slowest teams hold the ball for much longer than 30sec a possession. Most teams don't have the fundamentals to hold it that long.

Edit: I read your post wrong, thought you were saying you want the shot clock. My bad!

[Dean Smith]

[quote name="Norm Peterson" post="111799" timestamp="

I think a lot of lack of quickness in a post player can be made up for on the offensive end just with decisiveness. There's a spot in the 2nd video where Hakeem alludes to this. He talks about how he lands from making the catch and he's immediately drop-stepping to the basket. Just, boom, he's already around the guy before he even has to think what he's going to do.

Sorry up front but I can't stop myself from nitpicking. That's not a drop step, that's the Dream Shake and that's a forward pivot. There is no step to that move just a spin from the forward pivot. The one he shows is hit the ground from your jump stop & immediately spin. He would also catch & then lean back into the defender, draw some slight contact & then spin off with the Dream Shake. Offensively you want contact with the defender. If they lean in at all, the spin off will always be there.

[basketballjones]

[quote name="Norm Peterson" post="111799" timestamp="

I think a lot of lack of quickness in a post player can be made up for on the offensive end just with decisiveness. There's a spot in the 2nd video where Hakeem alludes to this. He talks about how he lands from making the catch and he's immediately drop-stepping to the basket. Just, boom, he's already around the guy before he even has to think what he's going to do.

Sorry up front but I can't stop myself from nitpicking. That's not a drop step, that's the Dream Shake and that's a forward pivot. There is no step to that move just a spin from the forward pivot. The one he shows is hit the ground from your jump stop & immediately spin. He would also catch & then lean back into the defender, draw some slight contact & then spin off with the Dream Shake. Offensively you want contact with the defender. If they lean in at all, the spin off will always be there.

Correct. I try to teach the bunny hop to the catch so you can explode right off of the catch, but it's surprisingly a difficult (haha who would have thought). The bunny hop catch, into the quick spin is the most deadly move out there. Even if they jump it, and beat you to the spot, you now have them buried underneath the back board. I like my players to bunny hop catch every post move, we say, "ball in air, feet in air." Leaving your feet for a quick instant makes the defending post player think he can push for position, taking him off balance and allowing you to use his body for a roll point.

Another adjustment I really like is for the Sikma moves. Instead of opening up all in one sweeping motion (do you see what I mean there?), instead you open up in small, quarter pivot increments. This doesn't allow your defender to time your move, and it allows you to open up at an under control pace so you can really see the floor and effectively use ball fakes to set up another move.

[Norm Peterson]

So, my nomenclature is a bit off.  Need to tighten that up.  Thanks for the lesson, both of you.

 

OK, so let's go with this:  Lack of foot speed in the post on the offensive end can somewhat be offset by just decisiveness:  Knowing what you're going to do in terms of move and counter while the ball is still in the air.  If you've practiced your Dream Shake and your Sikma moves enough that you don't even have to think your way through them but can just execute them, you can make up for lack of quicks.  Even better if you have some quicks to go along with knowing your moves.  But the most important thing is probably being decisive and familiar enough with the moves that you can just press a button in your mind and it just happens.

[hhctony]

Eh..... I for sure see what you're saying, Tony, but to win games some teams have to control the clock. You can't teach everyone to play like that. If I had Drew Homa, their point guard, and the Pritchard kid I'd probably let them go rogue too... Very few people have that.

And for what it's worth, he says that, but they run a wide variety of stuff. He certainly gives them plenty of freedom on missed baskets and steals, but they for sure have a system, actions, sets, and principles in the half court. It's not like they're playing YMCA ball out there.

But I certainly know what you mean. However, I warn you - if you ever thought there was a competitive imbalance in Nebraska HS basketball, it will be dramatically increased with the shot clock. Good teams will just look better. And, for what it's worth, I'm all for the shot clock, but I'm not sure even the slowest teams hold the ball for much longer than 30sec a possession. Most teams don't have the fundamentals to hold it that long.

Edit: I read your post wrong, thought you were saying you want the shot clock. My bad!

 

 

jones -- I feel you. I'm not ever saying a coach should let his team go rogue. Heck, Paul Westhead had rules. What I'm saying is, we see more and more teams try to control EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION from the bench with a set play rather than letting players play. Do your Jimmies and Joes have some say in that? Absolutely. I just think that a coach that could teach a simple system that leads to good, quick solid shots would have an advantage.

[basketballjones]

So, my nomenclature is a bit off.  Need to tighten that up.  Thanks for the lesson, both of you.

 

OK, so let's go with this:  Lack of foot speed in the post on the offensive end can somewhat be offset by just decisiveness:  Knowing what you're going to do in terms of move and counter while the ball is still in the air.  If you've practiced your Dream Shake and your Sikma moves enough that you don't even have to think your way through them but can just execute them, you can make up for lack of quicks.  Even better if you have some quicks to go along with knowing your moves.  But the most important thing is probably being decisive and familiar enough with the moves that you can just press a button in your mind and it just happens.

Nailed it, norm. Although I'd argue, quick and decisive are the same thing. I'm as frustrated with you in our lack of post development.

[Huskerone]

Wasn't Kenyan Hunter brought in to coach the post posiition?  Didn't he work with posts at Georgetown?  Kenyan is a good coach from everything I've heard.

[bobcat402]

Wasn't Kenyan Hunter brought in to coach the post posiition?  Didn't he work with posts at Georgetown?  Kenyan is a good coach from everything I've heard.

he can coach and teach all he wants, but walt dosnt do it, and until are new guys come in, we dont have anyone talented enough to bench him. Ideally walt is best off the bench, IMHO

[Norm Peterson]

Wasn't Kenyan Hunter brought in to coach the post posiition?  Didn't he work with posts at Georgetown?  Kenyan is a good coach from everything I've heard.

It's Kenya and he is a good coach.  As akstooc said upthread, it's more about Walt's want-to.  He hasn't learned this stuff or at least shown the ability to execute it, because he doesn't want to.  He wants to be the guy shooting threes.  That's what he wants.

 

If he wanted to become a guy who could not only shoot threes but also post people up inside, I think he could easily do it.  It just takes time practicing the moves and then, in games, letting instinct take over.

 

There's only so much Kenya can do about that.