What happened to next year's senior class?

[Norm Peterson]

As everyone knows, we only have one senior next year and that player is Ray Gallegos.  Who redshirted.  And if he hadn't redshirted last year, he'd be a senior this year, in which case we'd have no senior class for next year.

 

So, what happened?   I couldn't really recall.  So, I went back and looked and ...

 

This was our fall signing class ...

 

http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=20&SPID=24&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=204833493

 

And this was our spring signing class ...

 

http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=20&SPID=24&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=204928817

 

None of whom would be seniors next year.

[FredsSlacks]

As everyone knows, we only have one senior next year and that player is Ray Gallegos.  Who redshirted.  And if he hadn't redshirted last year, he'd be a senior this year, in which case we'd have no senior class for next year.

 

So, what happened?   I couldn't really recall.  So, I went back and looked and ...

 

This was our fall signing class ...

 

http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=20&SPID=24&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=204833493

 

And this was our spring signing class ...

 

http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=20&SPID=24&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=204928817

 

None of whom would be seniors next year.

Doc happened.

[Norm Peterson]

That class was a serious problem for this program.  It drives home the point of how you cannot consistently make a living with juco players.  Theyr'e gone too soon.  Caleb Walker was a good player for us (not great, but certainly good.)  But we only had him 2 years and one of those years he was basically adapting to the D1 game.  Andre has struggled with injuries and weight but has had moments of decent productivity.  Refuse to call him a wasted scholarship.  But Kamyron Brown was a total waste.  I think we had two players transfer in under Doc and neither one of them panned out.  One of them never played; the other played half a season.  Both were kicked out of the program for one reason or another.

 

But if you look at what we signed that year -- Caleb, Andre, and Kamyron Brown -- you have to call that a horrid recruiting class.  Find one that's worse.  (OK, maybe don't.  That might get depressing.)

 

And let me ask this question:  Can a program like Nebraska afford to have a year where you wind up with a recruiting class that contributes a grand total of 2,278 career minutes, 692 career points and 76 career starts for the whole recruiting class*?

 

For comparison purposes, Brandon Ubel alone has 2875 career minutes, 837 career points and 85 career starts**.

 

 

 

*With 2 games left to play in that class's final season.

** With 2 games left to play in his career.

[TheKamdyMan]

Jorge Diaz, Bear Jones, and Chris Niemann would be a good fight for worst class.

[BannedAccount]

Jorge Diaz, Bear Jones, and Chris Niemann would be a good fight for worst class.

Worst class?  How is that?  Diaz and Jones were some of the most skilled players that Doc ever recruited!

[Norm Peterson]

The class after Andre's, unfortunately, is also already somewhat of a disappointment. 

 

Of the 4 original players in that next class, two left the team after one season, a season in which, as a group, the four players combined for 917 minutes and 279 points.  One of the departures (Josiah Moore) could be blamed on the coaching change but I honestly don't think he was legit B1G material.  The other (Corey Hilliard) was kicked off for unspecified legal problems.  Two remain, but one (Dylan Talley) graduates after a 2-year career.  Very good player for us, to be sure.  Wish we had the kid another year. 

 

But, as a whole, we got 2 players for 1 season, 1 player for 2 seasons, and the remaining player (David Rivers) for probably a 4-year career.  But David Rivers will be the only one left in his recruiting class for his last two years here.  So, out of those 4 players, we got only two kids who are productive and only one out of four will be here for more than two seasons (we hope.)

[TheKamdyMan]

Jorge Diaz, Bear Jones, and Chris Niemann would be a good fight for worst class.

Worst class?  How is that?  Diaz and Jones were some of the most skilled players that Doc ever recruited!

 

How are they doing this season at Nebraska....oh wait thats right none of them are still here.  Skilled or not they never lived up to any of their hype and are not here anymore so thats a wasted class when not one of them are here anymore.

[Concrete]

2005- Balham, Marks, Mike Smith, BJ Walker, Marcus Walker, Jamel White

 

wow.  I think a lot of people thought that class (mostly Balham, both Walkers, and White) thought that class could turn us around.  disaster

[Norm Peterson]

Our current entering class has exceeded the first-year point total of last year's recruiting class with two games still to go -- 295 to 279.

 

In addition, this class has accounted for 31 starts (will be 33) compared with just 2 for last year's class in their first season.  And they've played 1516 minutes so far compared to last year's class, which logged just 917 minutes their first season.

 

In further addition, this year's entering class also includes 3 guys who are sitting out this season, and so their career numbers as a class will skyrocket compared to last year's class who has one guy left after this season.  I mean, to the extent last year's class attrited significantly, this year's class will do the opposite -- it will grow after a season.

 

For comparison again, the 2012 class started with 4 players playing and was down to 2 after 1 season.

 

The 2013 class also started with 4 players playing and will be up to probably 6-7 players next year.  (It'll be difficult to see how Peltz gets minutes next year.)

[Norm Peterson]

 

Jorge Diaz, Bear Jones, and Chris Niemann would be a good fight for worst class.

Worst class?  How is that?  Diaz and Jones were some of the most skilled players that Doc ever recruited!

 

How are they doing this season at Nebraska....oh wait thats right none of them are still here.  Skilled or not they never lived up to any of their hype and are not here anymore so thats a wasted class when not one of them are here anymore.

Not one of them completed their eligibility for us.  Not of those three.

[Norm Peterson]

2005- Balham, Marks, Mike Smith, BJ Walker, Marcus Walker, Jamel White

 

wow.  I think a lot of people thought that class (mostly Balham, both Walkers, and White) thought that class could turn us around.  disaster

That class probably has the biggest negative ratio between hype and productivity of any recruiting class we've ever had.

 

It might, in fact, rival the '11 class for lowest aggregate career productivity in terms of minutes played, starts and points.  Someone want to try to add the numbers up?

[GoBigRed]

2005- Balham, Marks, Mike Smith, BJ Walker, Marcus Walker, Jamel White

 

wow.  I think a lot of people thought that class (mostly Balham, both Walkers, and White) thought that class could turn us around.  disaster

That class probably has the biggest negative ratio between hype and productivity of any recruiting class we've ever had.

 

It might, in fact, rival the '11 class for lowest aggregate career productivity in terms of minutes played, starts and points.  Someone want to try to add the numbers up?

In that class's first year on campus (2005-06), Marks, BJ Walker, Marcus Walker and Jamel White all played. They combined for 16.8 mpg, 32 starts and 5.3 ppg. These numbers are similar to what Andre Almeida, Caleb Walker and Kamyron Brown combined for in two years (17.3 mpg, 49 starts, 5.3 ppg).

 

If you take it a step further by evaluating the entire careers of those 6 from 2005, their numbers drop to: 11.7 mpg, 71 starts, 4.0 ppg. The problem with that 05 class wasn't that they didn't have ability. It was actually one of Doc's better groups. He just didn't manage it very well. The best player (Jamel) was kicked off the team midway through his sophomore year, the second best player (Marcus) left after his first year, the third best player (BJ) transfered/was dismissed after one year and the fourth best player (Chris) had injuries that killed his career, even though he was the only one of the 6 who made it to his senior year. Marks wasn't good and Smith was worse, but in a class of 6 recruits if you have 4 that can play you've done ok. Unfortunately for us they were the only 2 that didn't get in trouble/get hurt. That class killed us because the top 3 producers couldn't even last 2 seasons here. Looking back now, it's not hard to see why our program has been such a dump. Hard to consistently win games when your top recruits end up leaving.

[Concrete]

 

2005- Balham, Marks, Mike Smith, BJ Walker, Marcus Walker, Jamel White

 

wow.  I think a lot of people thought that class (mostly Balham, both Walkers, and White) thought that class could turn us around.  disaster

That class probably has the biggest negative ratio between hype and productivity of any recruiting class we've ever had.

 

It might, in fact, rival the '11 class for lowest aggregate career productivity in terms of minutes played, starts and points.  Someone want to try to add the numbers up?

 It was actually one of Doc's better groups. He just didn't manage it very well. 

I think that's the point.  The class had a lot of hype coming in, and then when we saw it in person we all thought "well damn, we actually might have something here.." and then before we knew it, they were all gone.  disappointment 

[BannedAccount]

 

Jorge Diaz, Bear Jones, and Chris Niemann would be a good fight for worst class.

Worst class?  How is that?  Diaz and Jones were some of the most skilled players that Doc ever recruited!

 

How are they doing this season at Nebraska....oh wait thats right none of them are still here.  Skilled or not they never lived up to any of their hype and are not here anymore so thats a wasted class when not one of them are here anymore.

Last I check Bear was leading his team in scoring and did pretty well last year.  It's not their fault Doc didn't use them properly and wouldn't take the leash off.  And if they were here this would be a much improved team. 

[tcp]

This thread illustrates why I don't follow recruiting that much. What looks good on highlight reels in high school and on paper too often doesn't pan out; plus, everyone else's recruits probably looked good on film and paper, too, so it's not like you're going to turn around a moribund program in a year or two unless you have amazing luck. And then the intangibles come in; maturity, team chemistry (which killed Doc's last two classes/teams), fit with system. And as coaches start creeping into their magical "5 year plans", one early mistake can start a cycle of dice rolling with shaky recruits that can bring the whole house down.

 

One thing I like about Miles' contract is the addition of an extra year or two over the norm. Guy can have some job security on paper that will extend to his 3rd or 4th class, which gives him a little room for error.

[Norm Peterson]

Miles, that '05 class was Collier's class.  Doc inherited some of them when he took over.

[BannedAccount]

Miles, that '05 class was Collier's class.  Doc inherited some of them when he took over.

So what is the classification on the class?  Best/Worst on paper?  Best/Worst after completion? Best/Worst based on a record?  Best/Worst based on individual talent?   Best/Worst at time here?  I think there is many ways you could go.

[Norm Peterson]

Well, coug, I think that '05 class certainly represented the biggest disparity between hype and performance of any Husker class.  Maybe 2nd only to the Chad Ideus, Andy Markowski, Lief Nelson class that Danny Nee dubbed his best recruiting class ever.

 

But Collier kicked BJ Walker off the team.  Marcus Walker quit before Collier did.  So did Mike Smith and Doc called Mike up and asked him to come back, but that lasted only an additional year.  I believe Kyle Marks left of his own accord.  And Doc had no choice but to kick Jamel White off the team, and anyone who lists Jamel as an example of Doc not managing that '05 class needs to take a stroll down memory lane and think about what Jamel did to get himself uninvited to be a Husker.

 

And, tcp, for that '05 class, there was plenty of hype but very little film.  We didn't know much about what those guys would look like.  At least I didn't.  And for the '10 class, there was hype about Andre when he signed, and the hype was probably deserved.  But he faded a bit in his 2nd season in juco and there were constantly concerns raised about his weight.  I wish you could go back and look but they don't keep archives over at Huskers Illustrated.  I honestly don't think there was a great deal of hype over that 2010 class.  I think there were concerns about both Andre and Kamyron, with guarded optimism about Caleb.

 

I don't think anybody was talking about that group the way they talk about the kids we have signed for next year, for example.  But those kids, we've seen decent amounts of film on them.  We can get a bit better handle.  Quite a bit we don't know about Webster, but I feel pretty confident that I know what we're getting with the other two.

[TheKamdyMan]

 

 

Jorge Diaz, Bear Jones, and Chris Niemann would be a good fight for worst class.

Worst class?  How is that?  Diaz and Jones were some of the most skilled players that Doc ever recruited!

 

How are they doing this season at Nebraska....oh wait thats right none of them are still here.  Skilled or not they never lived up to any of their hype and are not here anymore so thats a wasted class when not one of them are here anymore.

Last I check Bear was leading his team in scoring and did pretty well last year.  It's not their fault Doc didn't use them properly and wouldn't take the leash off.  And if they were here this would be a much improved team. 

 

I'd hope he was leading a D-2 team in scoring after being a D-1 transfer.

[Norm Peterson]

tcp, just for you, I went back onto the old site and found this post from moi on April 15, 2010, the day after the class was announced, and here's what I said:

 

My biggest eye-opener is not the years of D1 experience but the fact of no freshmen on the team in '10-'11 -- unless Doc finds one between now and August. I don't remember ever seeing that before. I'd like to start gaining confidence in Doc's recruiting and, after 3 straight seasons of steady progress his first 3 years, I don't think it should have been a reach to find a potential difference-maker in the HS or Prep ranks to sign last November.

The best we got was a commit and no LOI from Kenyon McNaeiou(and sometimes y)ll and he ended up dropping out. And I'm not sure he was all that good. And this coming November isn't all that far away now either but are we in the mix for any potential difference makers in the HS ranks that we know of?

(BTW, I'm going to use the words "real deal" in describing Mike Gessell and I'm going to say for the first time right now that I'll be really disappointed if we don't get him for the 2012 class. He is one helluva player.)             

 

[Donkey]

1.  The 2005 class was recruited and coached by Barry Collier not Doc Sadler.  Doc's first season coaching at Nebraska was 2006-2007.  Oddly enough, the 2006 class that Barry brought in had promise with Roburt Sallie, Toni Soda, Kris Douse, and Ryan Anderson (I think Jay-R Strowbridge and Sek Henry were added by Doc, please correct me if I am wrong).  

 

2.  Doc's first real class was the 2007 group which, as I recalled, was supposed to fill roster spots with ready-to-play guys like Steve Harley and Adie Dagunduro mixed with some good high school kids in Cookie Miller, Alonzo Edwards, and Tony McCray.  But there was immediate trouble in the front court with JC's Adam Chapman and Shang Ping.  Those two misses were HUGE as pretty much all of Barry's big men, with the exception of a hobbled Balham, were gone.  We were left with a guard heavy team and no future front court outside of Edwards (who transferred). 

 

3.  2008 Was supposed to cure the front court problems but . . . the facts speak for themselves.  Niemann had knee problems and Diaz was not even admitted until half way through the season.  However, it seems Doc's attempt to just fill the bench with warm bodies backfired as there were not enough scholarships to bring in more than 3 players (also wasn't Bear Jones a last minute addition when he had qualification issues??).  

 

4.  2009: Good class but it almost seemed Doc was just trying to fill out his bench.  Cookie Miller and Alonzo Edwards transfer.  Harley, Adie, and Balham graduate.  Sek Henry and Ryan Anderson are left from 2006, and Richardson and McCray remain from the 9 member class of 2007.  That FIVE (5) players remaining from classes comprising FIFTEEN (15) players.  Keeping 1 of 3 recruited and signed players is NEVER a good thing.

 

As a result Doc had to bring in Jeter (a solid player) and Hankins (McDonald's anyone?): two more JUCO players when he should have been giving scholarships to high school players.  The high school players, Standhardinger, Gallegos, Ubel, Holley were probably Doc's best group of high school players.  However, Ubel was supposed to be more of a stretch PF (so no true big man) and there was no true point guard in the high school class.  

 

5.  2010: Walker and Almedia.  While both had their value, the complete lack of high school kids pretty much signaled the end of Doc.  Still no young point guard since Cookie Miller and no high school inside banger.

 

6.  2011: Finally a high school PG in Hilliard with two SF's; no JUCO's; still no high school big man to play in the post.  I think this class was finally in the right direction but it was too late.

 

Looking back, Doc was poor at planning around his needs.  He seemed to keep loading up on combo guards and wings.  That is fine except when having those players defend a 6-8 to 6-10 bruiser in the middle.  Yes the big guys he recruited had unforeseeable issues (transfers, injuries, and qualification issues), but his fix was short term in the form of JUCO's.  Plus, factor in issues at PG, and a squad comprised entirely of combo guards and wings just will not work without a ball distributor or a legitimate post presence.  If Doc had not relied so heavily on JUCO's and focused on developmental guys, there probably would be more depth on this team.

 

One last thing to think about.  Let's assume Gallegos had not redshirted, Rivers would be most senior player on the team with him and Biggs being the only upperclassmen.  Now that is even more scary to think about.  

[Norm Peterson]

By the way, the answer to the question I posed in the 2nd paragraph of my 4/15/2010 post would be a resounding "no."

 

And I would also like to emphasize to those who think that I NEVER criticized Doc and was always and forever a complete Doc apologist -- read that 4/15/2010 post.  There are plenty of examples if you look through my whole body of work posting on HHC, but that's just the one that came up today when I was searching re: this topic.  Clearly, I was questioning and criticizing Doc's recruiting long before anyone was calling for him to be fired.

[Norm Peterson]

Good post, Donkey.  Strowbridge was a Collier recruit, tho.

[BannedAccount]

 

 

 

Jorge Diaz, Bear Jones, and Chris Niemann would be a good fight for worst class.

Worst class?  How is that?  Diaz and Jones were some of the most skilled players that Doc ever recruited!

 

How are they doing this season at Nebraska....oh wait thats right none of them are still here.  Skilled or not they never lived up to any of their hype and are not here anymore so thats a wasted class when not one of them are here anymore.

Last I check Bear was leading his team in scoring and did pretty well last year.  It's not their fault Doc didn't use them properly and wouldn't take the leash off.  And if they were here this would be a much improved team. 

 

I'd hope he was leading a D-2 team in scoring after being a D-1 transfer.

Actually it's a division I team

[TheKamdyMan]

 

 

 

 

Jorge Diaz, Bear Jones, and Chris Niemann would be a good fight for worst class.

Worst class?  How is that?  Diaz and Jones were some of the most skilled players that Doc ever recruited!

 

How are they doing this season at Nebraska....oh wait thats right none of them are still here.  Skilled or not they never lived up to any of their hype and are not here anymore so thats a wasted class when not one of them are here anymore.

Last I check Bear was leading his team in scoring and did pretty well last year.  It's not their fault Doc didn't use them properly and wouldn't take the leash off.  And if they were here this would be a much improved team. 

 

I'd hope he was leading a D-2 team in scoring after being a D-1 transfer.

Actually it's a division I team

 

Sorry they just made the move THIS season.  When he transferred there last year they were still D-2.