OT (Kinda?): NSAA, Class A/B Conferences, OPS, etc...

[Fullbacksympathy]

On 4/24/2023 at 10:03 AM, basketballjones said:

 

This is kinda where I was interested in this thread giong...

What are your thoughts about how schools effectively don't even really care if they have a teacher in the building coaching - and are more concerned if their guy is an AAU coach? 

 

I can only speak from personal experience.  There are pros and cons to both based on what I've seen.

 

Pros of teacher-coaches:  the educator is 1) available during the day 2) generally more reliable in terms of communication skills 3) typically is aware of building culture and what standards to uphold.  

 

Cons of teacher-coaches:  they don't always know how to coach.  

 

Pros of non-teacher coaches:  1) the coach is usually going off multi-year relationships with players/families before they ever begin high school (they are constantly coaching in and out of the HS system) 2) they typically have good relationships with personal trainers to hook up their players with in the offseason to continue establishing good individual skills.

 

Cons of non-teacher coaches: they are often undereducated and communicate in a substandard way (think basic grammar in some instances).  They also tend to approach the culture as a representative of their AAU program rather than the HS.  So, in their mind, HS is almost an extension of their program, sort of like a fun exhibition.  It's interesting.  

 

So it's really a wash at this point as far as what's best for the kids.  I'm the rare educator that only coaches AAU at this point.  I've seen the beautiful and ugly on both sides.  

[Fullbacksympathy]

On 4/24/2023 at 11:42 AM, Norm Peterson said:

All you people lamenting the regression of public education to a time where poor kids got sent to the school for coal mines, etc., explain to me how you square this concern about the privatization of high school sports with the complaint that interscholastic sports allocates scarce resources to the benefit of the very few athletically gifted in a way that is profoundly inequitable.

 

There are so many opportunities in the city of Lincoln for children to experience and incredibly wide range of things via public education.  It's actually incredible.  Sports is just one of them.

 

But I will always scream to the rooftops that private donations to public schools (i.e. paying for this theater to be built for this specific school) should be completely illegal and instead go to LPS pot to be distributed evenly.  

[Dean Smith]

1 hour ago, Fullbacksympathy said:

 

I'm not sure that's true.  There are the Erick Stricklands of the world who could go pro in three sports, and the just good athletes who need the advanced skills required to have their college paid for at a lower level.  More kids in the area are getting opportunities to play collegiate sports because of specialization.  

 

I understand your sentiment though.  

All the studies show the sooner a kid specializes the greater chance they drop out all together and the number of injuries skyrockets due to the continuous  and repetitive stress that comes from playing the same sport year around. I know lots of college coaches that would recruit a two-sport athlete over one who only plays "their" sport when all things are equal. If you are going to specialize, wait until after your sophomore year at least. The benefits far outway any negatives. I was a small school, three sport kid but I guarantee you that I managed to get my basketball skill work in year around. 

[Fullbacksympathy]

1 hour ago, Dean Smith said:

All the studies show the sooner a kid specializes the greater chance they drop out all together and the number of injuries skyrockets due to the continuous  and repetitive stress that comes from playing the same sport year around. I know lots of college coaches that would recruit a two-sport athlete over one who only plays "their" sport when all things are equal. If you are going to specialize, wait until after your sophomore year at least. The benefits far outway any negatives. I was a small school, three sport kid but I guarantee you that I managed to get my basketball skill work in year around. 

 

I think this is sound advice for small schools, but there are some rarely discussed privileges that come from playing lower competition in terms of opportunities.  Not very many kids can play two or three sports in Class A because they aren't good enough (I think it's only like 30% at that level).  The higher up you go in class competition, the lower percentage of kids playing multiple sports, and not all kids even like three sports.  If a kid is talented enough to letter in more than one sport, they definitely should do it though, I agree.  

 

And, yes, college coaches look for multi-sport athletes because they are obviously the best athletes.  Most kids don't have that gift.  Most kids' ceiling in bigger districts is high school athletics and, in most instances, they have to work extremely hard to make one high school team before their athletic career ends at 18 (at the oldest).  I'd rather a kid have to push through emotional burnout than never be able to experience high school athletics at all.  I'm not sure what the solution is in bigger populations.  I also think emotional burnout happens to kids who are constantly playing a sport and have no true offseason.  I loathed going straight into basketball from football after the basketball season had already started in high school.  It was multiple sports that personally burned me out and made me skip a spring sport to recharge.  I see it now with kids I coach who begin baseball training in the middle of basketball season.  

 

For younger kids, it's important to expose them to multiple sports and let them decide, but I'm a pretty big proponent of keeping them physically active year round whether they like multiple sports or not given childhood obesity has tripled in the past 30 years.  Basketball, specifically, should focus on individual skills in the summer and less games.  Unfortunately, that trend is the polar opposite in many programs.  I think kids should play 15-20 basketball games max in the summer (April-July), but a lot of them are playing 40-50 which is awful.  

[Fullbacksympathy]

On 4/24/2023 at 5:35 PM, Cazzie22 said:

Who says inter scholastic athletics has to be equitable?  Who says life has to be equitable other than the woke crowd.  Not everyone has musical ability to be in band or chorus, not everyone can be a thespian and be in the plays and not everyone has athletic ability.   These are all cocurricular or extra curricular activities.   You try out and hope to make the team.  In small schools you are going to make the team.  Hence, the success of small class parochial schools having success.  Opportunities are provided for most students just as life provides opportunities.  Opportunity does not mean success.

 

I mean, I generally agree, but didn't you just complain about AAU creating inequity in your own situation?  How do you reconcile those two things?  It sounds like the kid you mentioned who skipped the game had more of an ethics problem than an AAU one.  

 

I personally believe club sports should be a younger kid thing and summer/offseason thing for HS kids, but I'm not the only person allowed to determine what has equitable value.  Some people value club sports more.  It is what it is.

 

That said, the pageantry of HS crowds and student culture, to me, will always make HS way better than AAU anything, and I think it will always lure great athletes.  

[basketballjones]

12 hours ago, Fullbacksympathy said:

Cons of teacher-coaches:  they don't always know how to coach.  

Probably not the only place you should have put this "con." At least the teachers don't wear backpacks, hats, and crocs when they coach. 

 

12 hours ago, Fullbacksympathy said:

Pros of non-teacher coaches:  1) the coach is usually going off multi-year relationships with players/families before they ever begin high school (they are constantly coaching in and out of the HS system) 2) they typically have good relationships with personal trainers to hook up their players with in the offseason to continue establishing good individual skills.

You don't think an in-building teacher who lives in the community has a multi-year relationship with the players and families before they get to high school? Maybe, maybe, in Omaha and a couple places in Lincoln, but not anywhere else in Nebraska. Anyone has connections to personal trainers, it's called "find on twitter, pay money." haha, jk. 
 

12 hours ago, Fullbacksympathy said:

They also tend to approach the culture as a representative of their AAU program rather than the HS.  So, in their mind, HS is almost an extension of their program, sort of like a fun exhibition.

Yuck. 

[Fullbacksympathy]

3 hours ago, basketballjones said:

Probably not the only place you should have put this "con." At least the teachers don't wear backpacks, hats, and crocs when they coach. 

 

Fair, sorta, but the AAU coaches who get hired to coach high school have already demonstrated success at the AAU level.  The AAU coaches that coach in HS dress up like anyone else does for HS games.  Summer ball is what it is.  

 

My personal opinion is that every HS coach, whether or not currently employed, should be required to have a teaching certificate to be in that sort of an intense environment with public school students.  I think it would weed out a lot of bad apples who make it into the HS ranks.  

 

3 hours ago, basketballjones said:

 

You don't think an in-building teacher who lives in the community has a multi-year relationship with the players and families before they get to high school? Maybe, maybe, in Omaha and a couple places in Lincoln, but not anywhere else in Nebraska.

 

Why would an AAU program start up anywhere in Nebraska outside of Lincoln or Omaha?  That would make no sense.  There is no population to support it.  It isn't even a relevant issue in smaller communities where they have one, maybe two teams per grade and no one ever gets cut.  

 

My experience as a player and coach in a larger population is that relationships are established on club teams well before kids even know who coaches high school are or where they will attend.  

 

[Navin R. Johnson]

Your outstate schools in class A have more kids that play multiple sports (Norfolk 2nd year in a row, and Kearney just won an award from the NSAA for this) because they have to as they have the same amount of sports but less of a population than Lincoln or Omaha to fill out their roster.  The one issue I have with college coaches, especially football, saying that "we want kids to play multiple sports in high school" and then turn around and encourage them to be on campus their spring semester.  If they really want kids to play multiple sports they should tell them to play basketball and baseball (or what ever the winter and spring sport is) for their high school teams as it would be better for them than going through a spring practice.

[Fullbacksympathy]

10 hours ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

Your outstate schools in class A have more kids that play multiple sports (Norfolk 2nd year in a row, and Kearney just won an award from the NSAA for this) because they have to as they have the same amount of sports but less of a population than Lincoln or Omaha to fill out their roster.  The one issue I have with college coaches, especially football, saying that "we want kids to play multiple sports in high school" and then turn around and encourage them to be on campus their spring semester.  If they really want kids to play multiple sports they should tell them to play basketball and baseball (or what ever the winter and spring sport is) for their high school teams as it would be better for them than going through a spring practice.

All true, but again with the smaller populations there is basically no AAU.  Supreme is trying to get it going in Kearney though.