From Lithuania to Lincoln

[basketballjones]

Sorry, not about a post about a Lithuanian big man with a 7ft wingspan and 22' range. 

 

Haymarket Hardwood brethren,

 

I have been promising or, at minimum, eluding to an X's and O's post for some time now. Well, here's my very raw attempt at including video and gifs into a post. Topic, Lithuania/Gonzaga Ball Screen Continuity offense - aka - what we have ran the past few seasons as a base, revolving offense.  
 

*Big-time Disclaimer - I do not do these to get into arguments or criticize anyone. So if anyone takes these as a criticism of Coach Miles, his staff, players, or anything of that nature - just stop typing your reply. I will openly discuss what I think are some weaknesses of this offense, and the strengths. But this is more informational and just a hobby of mine. Also, we actually went away from this towards the end of the year in a lot of regards (much to my enjoyment). But it's an interesting study at least. 

 

Do any of these look familiar to you? 

 

That would be what we have ran quite a bit the past few years to just get the ball moving and players moving. It worked really well when TP could hit shots at the end of the shot clock, and when Walt P. was making 3's at a 40% clip. Some people call it Lithuania Ball Screen Continuity, others call it Gonzaga Ball Screen Continuity. Coaches steal all the time... so who knows who actually invented it.

 

The basics of this offense are this:

1. In theory, a 3 out 2 in offense. Or, at minimum, a 3 guard or wing, 2 "post" offense. 
2. The point guard will initiate offense by doing one of these three things:
   1. Dribbling out a wing to create a triangle on the other side of the lane, so he can start the ball screening action. 
   2. Passing to a wing, and corner cutting to the ball side
   3. Passing to a wing, and corner cutting to the opposite side of the paint
3. The first big will typically get the action started by setting a ball screen for a guard/wing
4. The opposite post, Pops up the lane to get the reversal pass after the ball screen
5. That post then does 1 of 2 things:
   1. Looks at the higher of the two wings and backdoors him out OR
   2. Starts dribbling at the higher of the two wings and dribbles him out (both backdoors)
   3. The post with the ball tries to hit the backdoor, but more than li

Again, we went away from this offense towards the end of last year, for reasons that I will describe below (we just did not have the personnel to do so). Hence, sort of why I am making this post now, as opposed to during the season - as I don't want to look like I am being critical of Coach. He knows what he's doing. Oh yeah, and btw, you have to be able to hit open 3's if you want any offense to be successful (no kidding, right?). 
 

Why have we had such struggle scoring at times the past couple years? Well, because of this .gif right here (in my opinion):

 

You'll notice basically nothing is open going to the hoop. First, after a school has seen your action a few times - they never get beat on that backdoor, they sag off, and they stay in the paint for a count as the backdoor player clears the lane to the other side.

 

Second, and arguably more detrimental, is the action of the opposite big "popping" to the opposite lane side of the top of the key. If your big is not comfortable shooting that shot on the pop - his defender just sags in the lane and helps defend the driver. When Walt P was doing this, you had to honor him. Then, you also had to honor him after he received the reversal pass and began to hand-off/ball-screen to the wing. Because after he did that, he frequently "drifted" out to the corner instead of rolling to the hoop. You had to honor his shot from the corner because he hit it at a very high rate. 

 

Structurally, this offense isn't "wrong," at all. But your personnel is what makes an offense "wrong." For instance, this offense is great if you have a few things:

1. Versatile Bigs that can shoot a - because if that big can shoot after he pops, you put his defender in a very tough position. Do I help the drive of the guy using ball screen? Or do I stick tight to my guy? On the ball screen, if they can shoot, they are very effective at "drifting" to the corner instead of rolling to the hoop. 
2. Super aggressive guards that can turn the corner on the ball screen and get to the rim.
3. Guys who can back-cut, get to the opposite corner, and then knock down the corner 3. Think about how many open 3's Benny Parker got in the corner? Our inability to hit that shot means the guy who is defending him on the back-cut gets to sit in the paint for a long time and check off the roll man. 

What do I prefer (if you do not have versatile bigs)? Just a slight adjustment - you keep the post down in the paint, opposite of the ball screen. As described here:

 

Unfortunately, I could not find a good film that would show this offense revolve from side to side. But basically what happens is that the higher of the two wings on the opposite side (backside triangle), will get the reversal pass, look inside to the duck-in one more time, then swing it to the corner who v-cuts to get open. Then he cuts to the opposite corner - creating another backside triangle with the opposite post and the guard who came off the first ball screen. 

 

Here's a super crude drawing I through up (did not have my iPad/Computer that has the correct software - click on it to make it bigger) - A lot of people call this "20 Series" Ball Screen Continuity:

 

Hopefully some of you enjoyed this "breakdown." As I learn how to make .gifs and utilize screenshots better, I'll try to do some more stuff (especially if I can get my hands on Husker specific film). 

 

baketballjones

 

 

[basketballjones]

So, question is - What will we do next year?

 

Jack McVeigh, Michael Jacobsen, Isaiah Roby, and Jeriah Horne are versatile bigs who can pop and drift to shoot outside shots...

Glynn Watson, Tai Webster, and Anton Gill are super aggressive guards...

AWIII and McVeigh (maybe?) can stretch defenses with their shooting... 

 

Maybe we go back to some of this?

 

Ideally you don't include Ed Morrow in the "popping/drifting" action - you allow him to stay down and keep opposite (as he would in "20 Series" Ball Screen Continuity), and you let him catch dump off passes, lobs, roll passes, and offensive rebound. 

 

But I'd really like to see some more of the (what I'm going to call) 5-Out motion concepts we were doing towards the end of the year. Because of our versatility with our 6'7" - 6'8" guys, you can cause a lot of damage letting them operate on the perimeter a bit. Ala, Golden State. 

[basketballjones]

Is there anything anyone would like me to "breakdown?" I'd like to get better at these and learning how to use the tech was/is fun.

[Huskerpapa]

My experience with out of bounds plays were always pretty basic, but that said, it sure has not appeared that the Husker out of bounds plays are very detailed.  Do you have any wisdom to share?  It appears our out of bounds plays are progressive in nature and are aimed at putting us into our offense.  Then again, we have some break off (one-off) plays that seem to provide us with an immediate look at a shot.  Again, your insight would be great.

[basketballjones]

My experience with out of bounds plays were always pretty basic, but that said, it sure has not appeared that the Husker out of bounds plays are very detailed. Do you have any wisdom to share? It appears our out of bounds plays are progressive in nature and are aimed at putting us into our offense. Then again, we have some break off (one-off) plays that seem to provide us with an immediate look at a shot. Again, your insight would be great.

That is a very good question - I know what you're asking. I'll look into it. I'll have to find some game film or whatnot.

[hhcmatt]

So, question is - What will we do next year?

 

Jack McVeigh, Michael Jacobsen, Isaiah Roby, and Jeriah Horne are versatile bigs who can pop and drift to shoot outside shots...

Glynn Watson, Tai Webster, and Anton Gill are super aggressive guards...

AWIII and McVeigh (maybe?) can stretch defenses with their shooting... 

 

Maybe we go back to some of this?

 

Ideally you don't include Ed Morrow in the "popping/drifting" action - you allow him to stay down and keep opposite (as he would in "20 Series" Ball Screen Continuity), and you let him catch dump off passes, lobs, roll passes, and offensive rebound. 

 

But I'd really like to see some more of the (what I'm going to call) 5-Out motion concepts we were doing towards the end of the year. Because of our versatility with our 6'7" - 6'8" guys, you can cause a lot of damage letting them operate on the perimeter a bit. Ala, Golden State. 

 

We now have Jordy in the mix and have added a guy in Michael Lewis who was running Butler's offense

 

Some questions for Jones (or for anyone really)

- Does it seem like we have the personnel now to run the motion offense that Miles really wants to run? We can break down some lineups but just a general question

- Has anyone watched much Butler?  What sort of offense have they been running?

[Dean Smith]

 

So, question is - What will we do next year?

 

Jack McVeigh, Michael Jacobsen, Isaiah Roby, and Jeriah Horne are versatile bigs who can pop and drift to shoot outside shots...

Glynn Watson, Tai Webster, and Anton Gill are super aggressive guards...

AWIII and McVeigh (maybe?) can stretch defenses with their shooting... 

 

Maybe we go back to some of this?

 

Ideally you don't include Ed Morrow in the "popping/drifting" action - you allow him to stay down and keep opposite (as he would in "20 Series" Ball Screen Continuity), and you let him catch dump off passes, lobs, roll passes, and offensive rebound. 

 

But I'd really like to see some more of the (what I'm going to call) 5-Out motion concepts we were doing towards the end of the year. Because of our versatility with our 6'7" - 6'8" guys, you can cause a lot of damage letting them operate on the perimeter a bit. Ala, Golden State. 

 

We now have Jordy in the mix and have added a guy in Michael Lewis who was running Butler's offense

 

Some questions for Jones (or for anyone really)

- Does it seem like we have the personnel now to run the motion offense that Miles really wants to run? We can break down some lineups but just a general question

- Has anyone watched much Butler?  What sort of offense have they been running?

 

That's a strong point of a real motion as opposed to some sort of passing game. You teach people how to play the game instead of just teaching them plays. You can run motion with any personnel. A true motion adapts to the strengths of who you have on the floor instead of making players adjust to the offense. Your offensive emphasis can change every time you make substitutions. So yes, our personnel fits the motion offense but then so does everybody else's. A good coach teaches some basic principles that are constants and then they adjust the emphasis to fit their personnel. 

 

Now I know what you mean in that Miles has some things he likes to do out of motion and can we do that with who we have? Personally, i would like to see more of an emphasis on a post game and you don't need a traditional post to do that. AWIII is built to be able to post. Jack has shown some potential to be a strong post. Tai should be able to post up the vast majority of the people who are assigned to guard him. Motion creates the space needed for any player on the floor to post. When you're going through a scoring drought, there's no more consistent way to end said drought than to get a favorable isolation on the block by somebody that knows what to do with the ball when they get it there.

[basketballjones]

I think the ideal motion offense right now is what the NBA is doing with most of their bigs. The three guards (or four, depending on personnel) basically try to space off each other and react to each other's drives. While the two "bigs" are searching to set ball-screens, dribble reversals into hand-offs, and pinning guys in/down screening on back side. Their job is basically to stay away from one another (posts), and always become available for the ball to keep it moving with their actions.

It's kind of hard to "teach," because it's technically random and without a pattern, but I like the rules. It's just good basketball in my opinion.

I'd imagine you're going to see a lot of the same structurally from Nebrasketball next year. And I'm fine with that, because I think we're going to be so much better off the bounce. I think Gill/Webster/Watson attacking the paint is going to be so much more effective than Parker/Webster/Watson. Benny is one of the hardest guys to know how to talk about on this board, as I agree we all love the dude and appreciate everything he did. But he couldn't shoot the 3, and potentially worse, was also really not a threat to put the ball on the floor and create chaos. Just too small to finish near the rim. Never attracted help.

-----------

The thing that has been my biggest X's and O's beef through the TM era so far is the lack of execution or emphasis in our make/miss transition basketball offense. My hope, is that our new assistant, who was such a good point guard back in college, can help revamp what Watson needs to be doing and looking for from getting the outlet pass to recognize when and where the advantages are, and how to quickly get us into our half court offense fluidly.

That is where I would really focus on this year with the type of attacking guards we have.

[hhcmatt]

 Personally, i would like to see more of an emphasis on a post game and you don't need a traditional post to do that. AWIII is built to be able to post. Jack has shown some potential to be a strong post. Tai should be able to post up the vast majority of the people who are assigned to guard him. Motion creates the space needed for any player on the floor to post. When you're going through a scoring drought, there's no more consistent way to end said drought than to get a favorable isolation on the block by somebody that knows what to do with the ball when they get it there.

 

It's a good point but is that a skillset that any of those players possess?

[Dean Smith]

 

 Personally, i would like to see more of an emphasis on a post game and you don't need a traditional post to do that. AWIII is built to be able to post. Jack has shown some potential to be a strong post. Tai should be able to post up the vast majority of the people who are assigned to guard him. Motion creates the space needed for any player on the floor to post. When you're going through a scoring drought, there's no more consistent way to end said drought than to get a favorable isolation on the block by somebody that knows what to do with the ball when they get it there.

 

It's a good point but is that a skillset that any of those players possess?

 

Jack has shown good moves when he has had the few opportunities to use them. The skills are some that any of them could be proficient at by the beginning of the season if they want to put the work in. The question is whether or not Miles thinks that skill is important enough to emphasis.

[hhcmatt]

I think the ideal motion offense right now is what the NBA is doing with most of their bigs. The three guards (or four, depending on personnel) basically try to space off each other and react to each other's drives. While the two "bigs" are searching to set ball-screens, dribble reversals into hand-offs, and pinning guys in/down screening on back side. Their job is basically to stay away from one another (posts), and always become available for the ball to keep it moving with their actions.

 

How much of an adjustment on the floor is it for when you bring in or out bigs with different skill sets in this type of offense?

[Norm Peterson]

 

 

 Personally, i would like to see more of an emphasis on a post game and you don't need a traditional post to do that. AWIII is built to be able to post. Jack has shown some potential to be a strong post. Tai should be able to post up the vast majority of the people who are assigned to guard him. Motion creates the space needed for any player on the floor to post. When you're going through a scoring drought, there's no more consistent way to end said drought than to get a favorable isolation on the block by somebody that knows what to do with the ball when they get it there.

 

It's a good point but is that a skillset that any of those players possess?

 

Jack has shown good moves when he has had the few opportunities to use them. The skills are some that any of them could be proficient at by the beginning of the season if they want to put the work in. The question is whether or not Miles thinks that skill is important enough to emphasis.

 

 

Totally agree.  You can learn it if you decide to learn it.  You just have to put in the time.

[Dean Smith]

 

I think the ideal motion offense right now is what the NBA is doing with most of their bigs. The three guards (or four, depending on personnel) basically try to space off each other and react to each other's drives. While the two "bigs" are searching to set ball-screens, dribble reversals into hand-offs, and pinning guys in/down screening on back side. Their job is basically to stay away from one another (posts), and always become available for the ball to keep it moving with their actions.

 

How much of an adjustment on the floor is it for when you bring in or out bigs with different skill sets in this type of offense?

 

Not much. The easiest is to go from a 5 out to a 4 out to a 3 out motion. I actually think it's harder to drive without a player in the post. With 5 out there's only so much room on the perimeter and you end up getting too many players below the freethrow line which puts the defense in good help position. One in allows the other four to line up above the freethrow line either taking away immediate help on penetration (post defenders can't help up or they give away a drop off dunk) or you increase the distance that they have to rotate back on help and recovery. Every cut starts above the freethrow line and outside of the three point line and they all end up above and outside as well. The spacing opens driving lanes and post up opportunities. 

[basketballjones]

I think the ideal motion offense right now is what the NBA is doing with most of their bigs. The three guards (or four, depending on personnel) basically try to space off each other and react to each other's drives. While the two "bigs" are searching to set ball-screens, dribble reversals into hand-offs, and pinning guys in/down screening on back side. Their job is basically to stay away from one another (posts), and always become available for the ball to keep it moving with their actions.

How much of an adjustment on the floor is it for when you bring in or out bigs with different skill sets in this type of offense?

Very simple. Anyone can set ball screens. What you do out of that screen can be predicated on what type of player they are.

That's why Kevin Durant and Lebron have basically been playing 4's in a lot of these line-ups you've seen. How do you guard a ball screen if Lebron is setting it, and Kyrie is coming off it? The whole team has to react. Obviously we don't specifically have those players - but it's all relative.