NUdiehard

So if we have just been missing "role players" like Juwan, now that have Juwan, who are our "difference makers" ? Or are you suggesting we can win in the B1G with a team full of just role players?

This team/program has been missing a lot of things, but primarily it has been missing players that are BOTH athletic and skilled. Not just one or the other. We have players that are skilled but not athletic enough to hang in the B1G, and we have some athletes that are not skilled enough to be difference makers in the B1G. At some point, we need to get players that are BOTH athletic and skilled. It's that simple. I agree that Juwan will probably be a contributor, maybe a starter, and will be a solid "role" player. But he appears to be yet another addition that is a one-dimensional player. Do we need a "dog" on this team? Absolutely. But if Trey doesn't return, then it is a wash at best. Based on what little I have seen/read about Juwan, I would probably rather have Trey than Juwan. Trey is a "dog" and he can at least occasionally hit the outside 3 and drive, etc. Right now, we don't need more role players. What we need is a player like Reeves who is athletic and can come in and immediately shoot and get buckets, be a difference maker. Sure, we have stiff competition with teams like Kentucky, etc, recruiting Reeves. But at some point, we need to start getting guys like Reeves if we want to compete for the top half of the B1G. Everyone expects Fred to win at least half his games in the B1G. Is he supposed to do that with significantly inferior talent? With a bunch of one-dimensional players while everyone else has players that are athletic and skilled? I really like the incoming class with Lloyd, Lawrence and Keita, that is a big reason I wanted Fred to return. Fred (and Matt A) beat out some serious blue bloods to get Lloyd. But he will just be a freshman. Was really hoping to land a big-time transfer to compliment that class and be able to come in and really make a difference this year. Because if he doesn't, even if Lloyd, Lawrence, Wilhelm, Keita show a lot of "potential", that probably isn't going to be enough for most on this board, you all expect Fred to get it done this year or bust.

Well, he's listed at 6'5" or 6'6" depending on the source. He was listed as a SF on his recruiting profiles. He averaged 3.4 rebounds per game last year. We are already undersized at the center position with Walker at about 6'7". We don't need to compound it by playing a 6'5" PF. If he is playing PF, it is most likely because he is not skilled enough to play SF or guard not because of his size.

Agreed. Just trying to understand the logic behind this recruit. We are already bringing in two 6'6" athletic recruits in Dawson and Lloyd. Do we really need another one? Especially one that can't shoot (he is career 20% from 3 and a poor free throw shooter). Granted, I have not seen any film on him, but it just seems we have other more urgent needs for next year's roster, including a high level scorer and a legit stretch PF.

Dude looks like he’s 40. I want to see a birth certificate

Granted its on somewhat low volume, but Roby is shooting 44% from 3 this season (52.5% overall)

Dickinson shot 64 3s this season alone. To put that in perspective, Verge only shot 54 all season. Playing Walker and Keita together should be for emergency purposes only We need either Wilhelm to get healthy and be a reliable stretch 4 or recruit one in the portal

that’s fair I guess all I am saying is I am tired of choosing one or the other because in the end they both are going to lose way more than they win. But at least if you start a season with talented players, those talented players may or may not be mentally soft, etc. we don’t know until they get punched in the face. But at least there is a chance they end up being both talented and mentally tough in contrast, if you start a season with a team that is not talented, if winning games is the objective, then it doesn’t matter whether they are mentally tough are not because either way they are going to lose way more than they win. and FWIW, I don’t know how anyone could watch the last 3 years and think NU had a lot of “talented” players on the court.

If all you need is “culture, cohesiveness and toughness, then why did Doc never make the tourney and finish 2-14 and 4-12”? I used Izzo as an example of one coach in the league. I could go down the list if you want. Most teams in the league get their pick of 4 and 5 star talent. And most can coach them up. As a counter example, take former coach Chambers at PSU. He got his players to play with as much toughness and grit as any team in the nation year after year. And in 9 season he made 0 NCAA tourney and 1 NIT tourney and was fired. Not enough talent. Toughness and culture and cohesion didn’t mean squat in the end.

This straw man notion that we must choose between talented but soft players vs untalented but mentally strong players is getting out of hand. Please explain how any coach is going to consistently win in the B1G with bottom level talent. Coach Izzo recruits very talented players, are NU’s untalented but “mentally strong” players going to consistently beat the Spartans? Does Izzo not get his talented players to play hard and execute the fundamentals? The B1G is full of excellent coaches who recruit talent and then coach those talented players to execute and play hard. If most/all teams execute and play good hard team ball, who wins the majority of their games? The team with more talent, obviously. Doc Sadler coached at NU for 6 years. He had mentally strong players who played their but off every minute on the floor. . . And he never went to the NCAA tourney and in his 4th season went 2-14 in Big 12 and 4-12 in his 6th season. This is not a knock on Doc or his coaching. Doc’s issue was always lack of talent. And the B1G is a more talented and better coached league than the Big 12 was when Doc coached. If a team doesn’t have sufficient talent it doesn’t have a chance to win consistently in this league.

Yes, so many “really good players”. Hard to count them all. Lol.

No doubt we will need at least 2 transfers to fill gaps. Freshman, no matter how good, are not going to come in and dominate the B1G in their first year. But getting all the current commits on to campus is important not only for next season, but potentially the next four years. If we get all 4 of them here, for the first time we should have a solid base to build upon for many years (especially when you add Wilhelm, Wilcher, Andre, Oleg, McPherson, etc) That is why it is so important, and it would be very unfortunate if Matt A's departure results in a loss of any, let alone multiple, current commits. This is a rebuild and next year may be ground zero. I know nobody wants to hear that, but if these guys can at least compete next year, and show signs they can grow and develop into a strong core in the following years, then I am good with that.

Not a fan of Walker at the 4 at all. In his two years at NU, I can't remember a single shot that wasn't either a layup or a baby-hook. He can't dribble and can't shoot. The opponent wouldn't even guard him outside of 5 feet from the hoop. With that said, Hoiberg did play Andre and Walker together for a few minutes during that OSU game with so much foul trouble, but I just don't think it is a long-term solution at all. Need to find a PF who can shoot and handle a bit. With that said, Dawson is listed at 6'6". When I watch him during warmups, he looks all of that and maybe more. I don't know if he has the skill to play next year, but he could maybe be an undersized PF if we are in a pinch. He seems quite a bit taller than Wilcher, who played a lot of 4 this year.

Based on what I have seen in warmups, Oleg is nothing close to be a stretch 4, at least not at this point. He will have to significantly improve his speed, lateral quickness and his outside shot to have any chance at playing the 4 under Hoiberg's system. I don't see that ever happening TBH. Which does mean that if Robin's predictions come true, NU will have four centers on the roster next year. It is a dilemma, because having both Walker and Andre return is very important, but I'm not sure having four centers (who are completely unable to play the 4) is the best allocation of scholarships/roster spots at this point. There is a grave need for a quality PG (or 2) as well as a solid stretch 4 (and a backup?). With only 3 spots available (and maybe 2 if Trey returns), Hoiberg and staff are going to have to nail the recruits who fill those spots, there isn't any room to miss.

Other than Trey, this is probably about as good a result as one could hope for.

Just curious, did his brother Trey get the same underwhelming defensive coaching? Or was it just Bryce? Did they separate Bryce and Trey when coaching defense? I am really curious to know, since you seem to have this inside information.

Weber had 184 wins in 10 years at KSU Hoiberg had 115 wins in just 5 years at ISU Weber had 5 NCAA tourneys in 10 years at KSU Hoiberg had 4 NCAA tourneys in 5 years at ISU Imagine wanting to fire the coach with the much better resume.

Lat passes the ball to Trey when Verge is calling for it.

Ugh

Bryce playing like someone who was told by his agent “just don’t get hurt”

Cowboys website lists him as a sophomore, but shouldn't he be a freshman in light of the covid non-year last year?

Don't even know where to start with this. Even the coaches themselves will tell you it all starts with recruiting. You can't make a great meal if you don't start with the right ingredients. If coaching is "way more important" than recruiting, and if development and improvement was all that matters, then hard-working walk-ons should be able to come in and dominate by their 2nd or 3rd year. Just coach 'em up. No problem. Sure, he's only 5'10" with a 15" vertical, but that doesn't matter, just develop them. How about Ivan, sure, he shoots like a shot put off the palm of his hand and can't catch a ball cleanly to save his life, but hey, just coach him up, develop him. We have been doing this for 50 years now. I have seen hundreds of student=athletes come through the program and bust their tail and do everything possible and still not win. Why? Because they weren't talented enough. Doc's six year tenure is proof of that. Or do we need John Wooden reincarnated to make a savory meal out of mediocre ingredients? Coaching is absolutely important. Development is absolutely important. But even the best coach in the world can't win consistently without talent. Here is the record for the Golden State Warriors the past 5 seasons, who have a great coach in Steve Kerr: 2016–17 82 67 15 .817 1st, Pacific NBA champions, 4–1 (Cavaliers) 2017–18 82 58 24 .707 1st, Pacific NBA champions, 4–0 (Cavaliers) 2018–19 82 57 25 .695 1st, Pacific Lost in NBA Finals, 2–4 (Raptors) 2019–20 65 15 50 .231 5th, Pacific Did not qualify 2020–21 72 39 33 .542 4th, Pacific Did not qualify Why did the only win 23% of their games in 2019-20 (finishing with the worst record in the entire league)? Oh ya, it was because Curry and Thompson were hurt. Talent.

Due to the vagaries of the schedule, NU only got to play the other bottom three teams (Minnesota, PSU and Maryland) once. What are the odds? Needless to say NU would probably have a couple more wins on their record had they played at least two of these teams twice.

Walker only played 13 minutes and NU still won. Wouldn’t have predicted that

Could Wilcher become what we hoped Joe McCray would be?