Taunting

[Norm Peterson]

Players taunt all the time. Sometimes it's obvious and direct; other times it's more subtle.

 

I've seen plenty of times where opposing players will waive their fingers in front of their faces as if to indicate they can hit that shot with a hand in their face and you can't stop them.

 

I've seen players get called for technical fouls for taunting. Usually, the technical is when the taunting is directed at a specific opposing player and is at close range. The kind of taunting where you might anticipate retaliation that could lead to a fight.

 

But the sort of general, from across the floor, firing an imaginary arrow or something like that is pretty benign.

 

Which is why I find it so confusing that people are comparing the Reese girl from LSU literally following Caitlin Clark around the floor as the final seconds ticked off of the national championship game trying to get in her face and taunt her with Clark waiving her hand in front of her face in the middle of the Louisville game some distance away from any Louisville players and trying to say those two situations are equivalent.

 

There's taunting, and then there's taunting that will draw a technical foul. What Clark did vs. Louisville is obviously the first type. What Reese did at the end of the title game is obviously of the second variety. And people are trying to say they're the same?

 

I mean, have people lost their ever-loving minds?

[AuroranHusker]

It seems so.

 

 

[Huskerpapa]

I will argue (gotta get a debate going) that what Clark did is worse.  Shoot she has done it to various players and teams that did not instigate or demonstrate against her.  She has strutted her talent around in an almost snobbish manner.  She backed her actions with success on the court.  But not only did she beat the players on the court  she seemed to relish belittling them as well.  She was a classic bully.

I am not privy to conversations that occurred between the two players in the championship game; but I heard earfulls from Clark and Leah Brown this year.  I am telling you, they were surprisingly bad.  

I do not condone trash talking on the floor.  It has no place in the game of basketball or any other place in society.  There was a time where you respected your opponent.  You fought for the win; but you won it with your talent/skill, not words and boorish behavior. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Huskerpapa

[Norm Peterson]

Papa, can you think of any instance where Clark followed an opposing player around the court for 15 seconds  during the closing moments of a game, or any other part of a game, making taunting gestures to them?

 

Have you ever seen any player not named Angel Reese follow an opponent around the floor for 15 seconds making taunting gestures in their face and NOT get whistled for a T?

[Huskerpapa]

No.  But the length of a taunt is not as material to me, as the taunt itself. 

In this instance, Reece taunted a player that is notorious for taunting others.  

Perhaps Clark will learn that, with her talent, she doesn't need to draw attention by belittling other players.  What did she gain by providing a brush off motion to the SC player?  Was her intention to draw more attention to herself, or to belittle her opponent?

I will say it again, all smack talk, all trash talking, all dismissive gestures should be eliminated.  Heck yes, celebrate a great shot or play; but it can be done without the trash...in my humble opinion.

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, Huskerpapa said:

No.  But the length of a taunt is not as material to me, as the taunt itself. 

In this instance, Reece taunted a player that is notorious for taunting others.  

Perhaps Clark will learn that, with her talent, she doesn't need to draw attention by belittling other players.  What did she gain by providing a brush off motion to the SC player?  Was her intention to draw more attention to herself, or to belittle her opponent?

I will say it again, all smack talk, all trash talking, all dismissive gestures should be eliminated.  Heck yes, celebrate a great shot or play; but it can be done without the trash...in my humble opinion.

 

I'd maybe buy that if Reece left it on the floor. But she continued it into the post-game interviews and onto Twitter. She's not letting it go. She's not taking the high road. She's not being the bigger person. Caitlin Clark is. By any metric you want to describe, other than actual, literal, physical stature, Caitlin Clark has clearly been the bigger person in all of this.

[HB]

I will say Clark is lucky that SC player didn’t punch her right in the mouth.  She earned it.  No fan at all of what Reece did, and has continued to do.  But I have no respect or appreciation for how Bluder and Clark go about their business, game in and game out.  Is it worse than Bird and Jordan?  I don’t know, perhaps not.   I’m probably just a grumpy old guy.  I’ve never been great at anything.  If I was, I hope I wouldn’t act like some of these superstars act.  But maybe that’s  part of what makes them great.  Anyway, Reece is out of line and making up her persecution excuse about no respect.  They are all diminished in my mind.  

Edited April 5, 2023 by HB

[hhcmatt]

 

[HB]

15 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

 

Caitlin Clark and I disagree.   She suggests that smack talk is what draws fans to the game, rather than the sport of basketball itself.  I hope she's wrong, and her promotion of the antics of Reece and her is rejected.    I suppose sportsmanship is a tired old virtue that has run its course.   Now, excuse me; I have to go shake my fist at a cloud.  

[hhcmatt]

4 minutes ago, HB said:

 

Caitlin Clark and I disagree.   She suggests that smack talk is what draws fans to the game, rather than the sport of basketball itself.  I hope she's wrong, and her promotion of the antics of Reece and her is rejected.    I suppose sportsmanship is a tired old virtue that has run its course.   Now, excuse me; I have to go shake my fist at a cloud.  

 

Honestly don't think there is a right or wrong answer here which makes it a great sports talk segment.

My take away was that I found the women's final 4 to be must see TV which I've never felt before and it would seem a lot of people felt that way given the ratings.

[HB]

6 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Honestly don't think there is a right or wrong answer here which makes it a great sports talk segment.

My take away was that I found the women's final 4 to be must see TV which I've never felt before and it would seem a lot of people felt that way given the ratings.

 

There was some great basketball played by ridiculously talented players.   Would hope we wouldn't need it to flirt with being an all-star wrestling event.  Individuals drawing attention attention to themselves, such as a coach dressed like a pink flamingo impersonating Elton John.  I'm sure it's just my generational challenge showing up again, but this (Reece over the top taunting followed by days of doubling down comments; Clark doing her thing to a lesser degree) depresses me.  It will become a new standard, and we will see much more of it.  And in my  old man views, athletic competition will be lessened because of it.    Do the strutting visuals in the Reece/Clark stuff take it to a different level than the Bird/Jordan smack-talking days?    Did Rodman degrade anything long-term?  I'm trying to be reflective on it all, but I can't get to "this" deserving of praise at worse and "it's cool; it grows the game" at best.   

 

Damn, another cloud  that needs a fist shake.

[Huskerpapa]

So, we watch hockey to see the fights...we watch NASCAR to see the crashes...we watch rastling for the artistic beauty of the stunts and now we watch Women's basketball for the gestures and fighting.  

[Bugeaters1]