unelinstu's postgame chatter: vol 15, ed 17: Illinois

One other note.

Massive, massive, MASSIVE pet peeve:  Coaches that refuse to play players after they have 2 fouls in the first half.  This is one of those "conventional" coaching strategies that is conventionally stupid.  What is the point of saving a player for the 2nd half if the game is pretty much over by the end of the first half? 

And what is the only way to absolutely maximize the amount of minutes a player plays in a game?  HINT:  It's not by benching them with 2 fouls.  The only way to maximize a players minutes is to keep playing them, because who knows, maybe they will not foul out.  And maybe, just maybe, they won't even commit any more fouls the entire rest of the game. 

Last night, Walker only played about 7 minutes in the first half and Bando also sat the rest of the half after picking up his 2nd foul.  And NU was down 11 at half, which is almost insurmountable for a team so offensively challenged. 

Some might say you absolutely must have your best players on the court for the last few minutes of the game and that is why you save them.  Hmm.  Well, last night, the only players on the court at the end of the game were the backups because it was a blowout and all the starters were taken out with 3 minutes to go.

And how many fouls did both Walker and Bando have at the END of the game?  TWO--neither of them committed a single foul in the 2nd half.  Sure is a good thing we saved those 3 fouls in the first half so they could take them to the locker room with them when the game was over! 

What’s the pulse on Hoiberg being retained assuming this season tanks? 
 

I will give this team credit in that they play hard. If the last couple Hoiberg teams played defense like this team did we may have had a chance. But, talent wise this is probably the least amount of talent we have had in some time. 

I can’t imagine Trev is eager for another coaching search. But, even with last night arguably being Hoiberg’s biggest game to date the PBA looked and sounded dead. Stylistically this is probably closer to what Trev wants out of the program. But with losing 3 of our top 4 players I see really no reason to have hope for the future if Hoiberg is retained. 

At least the “Bubble Talk” lasted until the first week of January this year, it was fun while it lasted…

10 minutes ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

What’s the pulse on Hoiberg being retained assuming this season tanks? 
 

I will give this team credit in that they play hard. If the last couple Hoiberg teams played defense like this team did we may have had a chance. But, talent wise this is probably the least amount of talent we have had in some time. 

 

I can’t imagine Trev is eager for another coaching search. But, even with last night arguably being Hoiberg’s biggest game to date the PBA looked and sounded dead. Stylistically this is probably closer to what Trev wants out of the program. But with losing 3 of our top 4 players I see really no reason to have hope for the future if Hoiberg is retained. 

This was part of the reason I asked how the fan turnout was last night.  This was a huge game and a few pictures I saw was spare 200 and even worse in 300 with multiple gaps in the 100.  Could have just been when the picture was taken.

We’ve been like top 20 in fan attendance for the past x number of years right?  Will that hold up this year?

Lots of things could be said, lots of words could be used. The only thing consistent about this program is my interest level continuing to wane. 

4 hours ago, HuskerActuary said:

I have also been disappointed in the sound team this year. What I'd give to have Chris Pankonin back! Looks like he's with the Jazz now.

Yeah that DJ thing doesn't work.

Not having the students back hurts attendance as well as the overall vibe.

I actually thought that the crowd attempted to get "into" the game on multiple occasions; but the superb play of Illinois, the subpar husker performance and the heavy dose of the referees whistles kept fan enthusiasm at bay.

38 minutes ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

What’s the pulse on Hoiberg being retained assuming this season tanks? 
 

I will give this team credit in that they play hard. If the last couple Hoiberg teams played defense like this team did we may have had a chance. But, talent wise this is probably the least amount of talent we have had in some time. 

 

I can’t imagine Trev is eager for another coaching search. But, even with last night arguably being Hoiberg’s biggest game to date the PBA looked and sounded dead. Stylistically this is probably closer to what Trev wants out of the program. But with losing 3 of our top 4 players I see really no reason to have hope for the future if Hoiberg is retained. 

I was on record being opposed to firing Tim Miles.

Who wins an NCAA tourney game first: Nebraska?; or whichever team Tim Miles is coaching?

3 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

I was on record being opposed to firing Tim Miles.

 

Who wins an NCAA tourney game first: Nebraska?; or whichever team Tim Miles is coaching?

I don’t plan on seeing Nebraska win a NCAA tournament in my lifetime and I’m in my 30’s. 
 

So I would say Tim Miles has a much better shot. 

Any word on Gary's injury yet?

44 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

This was part of the reason I asked how the fan turnout was last night.  This was a huge game and a few pictures I saw was spare 200 and even worse in 300 with multiple gaps in the 100.  Could have just been when the picture was taken.

 

We’ve been like top 20 in fan attendance for the past x number of years right?  Will that hold up this year?

I think on the postgame show someone said that the announced attendance was still 15,000 something. So I don't think the high attendance rank will really change. You could tell the crowd wasn't great on tv, but with no students, the refs calling a foul every two seconds, and just sloppy play on our end, there was a whole lot of nothing to build some juice from the crowd.

1 hour ago, NUdiehard said:

Massive, massive, MASSIVE pet peeve:  Coaches that refuse to play players after they have 2 fouls in the first half.

You might have blinked when Breidenbach picked up his 3rd foul in the first half.

Hoiberg during his career has been about middle of the road between coaches who play guys a lot of minutes with 2 fouls and those who never play them.

The game itself was a disjointed mess in general with 24 fouls being called in the first half and 14 in the second half.  Real hard to figure out a rotation when what constitute a foul fluctuates like it did last night.

The team that I saw last night looks defeated, and even gave up late. That's a sad tale. I hadn't noticed that attitude from this squad, perhaps the Juwan Gary injury deflated their hopes of a 2nd half comeback. That 17-1 scoring spree by the Illini to end the game was wildly disappointing. Yeah, the game was essentially lost, but at least our Huskers have to give a FIGHT to the finish.

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

 

You might have blinked when Breidenbach picked up his 3rd foul in the first half.

Hoiberg during his career has been about middle of the road between coaches who play guys a lot of minutes with 2 fouls and those who never play them.

The game itself was a disjointed mess in general with 24 fouls being called in the first half and 14 in the second half.  Real hard to figure out a rotation when what constitute a foul fluctuates like it did last night.

Yeahhhh— with the way that it was being called, picking up a 3rd was almost a given last night in the first half. 

2 hours ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

But with losing 3 of our top 4 players I see really no reason to have hope for the future if Hoiberg is retained. 

Yeah that's past "dean man walkin” territory. I give Hoiberg credit. He's done a damn good job this year. Too little too late. He’s brought in an, essentially, entirely new roster each year. And not once has he shown he can be successful doing this. And in only one year has he even shown he can be competitive. Seasons not over buuuuuut it could get brutal. And soon. And one thing Hoiberg has shown is he can give us a basketball team that goes through long brutal stretches. 

38 minutes ago, cornfed24-7 said:

Yeah that's past "dean man walkin” territory. I give Hoiberg credit. He's done a damn good job this year. Too little too late. He’s brought in an, essentially, entirely new roster each year. And not once has he shown he can be successful doing this. And in only one year has he even shown he can be competitive. Seasons not over buuuuuut it could get brutal. And soon. And one thing Hoiberg has shown is he can give us a basketball team that goes through long brutal stretches. 

What’s more likely, a 3-4 game Winning streak, or a 10 game Losing streak…? 

In a moment of mentally unbalanced optimism, I selected the Huskers to eke our a victory over the Illini in the HHC co test.  I should have remembered that the Illini beat a very talented Texas team and we had to shoot lights out to defeat a weak Minnesota team.  I am not ready to dump Hoiberg as we are what we are in talent.  If Gary can return we-can be competitive with mid level and lower teams.  Friday night will be ugly.

Hate to say it but I think this is where the wheels start to fall off. I don't see anything better than 3-7 or 2-8 in our next 10 games. 

3 hours ago, OmahaHusker said:

 

I think on the postgame show someone said that the announced attendance was still 15,000 something. So I don't think the high attendance rank will really change. You could tell the crowd wasn't great on tv, but with no students, the refs calling a foul every two seconds, and just sloppy play on our end, there was a whole lot of nothing to build some juice from the crowd.

Nah, paid attendance was 12,756. Plenty of gaps in the crowd. 

4 hours ago, NUdiehard said:

One other note.

 

Massive, massive, MASSIVE pet peeve:  Coaches that refuse to play players after they have 2 fouls in the first half.  This is one of those "conventional" coaching strategies that is conventionally stupid.  What is the point of saving a player for the 2nd half if the game is pretty much over by the end of the first half? 

 

And what is the only way to absolutely maximize the amount of minutes a player plays in a game?  HINT:  It's not by benching them with 2 fouls.  The only way to maximize a players minutes is to keep playing them, because who knows, maybe they will not foul out.  And maybe, just maybe, they won't even commit any more fouls the entire rest of the game. 

 

Last night, Walker only played about 7 minutes in the first half and Bando also sat the rest of the half after picking up his 2nd foul.  And NU was down 11 at half, which is almost insurmountable for a team so offensively challenged. 

 

Some might say you absolutely must have your best players on the court for the last few minutes of the game and that is why you save them.  Hmm.  Well, last night, the only players on the court at the end of the game were the backups because it was a blowout and all the starters were taken out with 3 minutes to go.

 

And how many fouls did both Walker and Bando have at the END of the game?  TWO--neither of them committed a single foul in the 2nd half.  Sure is a good thing we saved those 3 fouls in the first half so they could take them to the locker room with them when the game was over! 

 

 

Don't think this is nearly as black and white as you're laying it out here, though I do agree coaches are often too far to the conservative end of the spectrum.

To last night's game in particular, Nebraska was hanging around until the last three minutes, and it's not like Walker was doing much when he was on the court anyway. I think Hoiberg was trying to get to halftime and give Walker a chance to reset and then play freely in the second half without potentially picking up a third in the first half. Then the wheels fell off late. Like Matt mentioned, there were 24 fouls called in the first half, so the risk factor for third foul for either Walker or Bandoumel, especially considering who they'd likely be guarding, was pretty high. Part of it depends on the coach's trust in the player and understanding of the player's ability to play smart and avoid fouls. 

You'd rather have one of your best players on the court than not, but when a guy plays in foul trouble it can often make him less aggressive and a liability on defense as teams target him knowing he doesn't want to pick up another, and if he does that's also a win. It's not entirely about making sure the guy is available at the end in case of a close game (though that's certainly part of it).

1 hour ago, Handy Johnson said:

What’s more likely, a 3-4 game Winning streak, or a 10 game Losing streak…? 

Under Hoiberg's leadership, we've gone on a:

3-game winning streak 3 times

4-game winning streak one time

10+ game losing streak twice (10 and 17 game streaks)

8 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

Under Hoiberg's leadership, we've gone on a:

 

3-game winning streak 3 times

 

4-game winning streak one time

 

10+ game losing streak twice (10 and 17 game streaks)

How many of those winning streaks involved conference opponents and how many were strictly conference opponents?

1 hour ago, hskr4life said:

How many of those winning streaks involved conference opponents and how many were strictly conference opponents?

Last season we won our last 3 conference games in a row, all on the road

3 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Last season we won our last 3 conference games in a row, all on the road

Two resulting in tearful Senior Day losses for Penn St & Wisconsin. Say what you will about the Big 8 but nobody ever cried when we beat them back then…

2 hours ago, basketballjones said:

Hate to say it but I think this is where the wheels start to fall off. I don't see anything better than 3-7 or 2-8 in our next 10 games. 

That's what I'm afraid of. And if we lose Gary -- which, I mean, given what we saw last night, could happen -- it could be cataclysmic. Apocalyptic, even.

I've been thinking a strong year, culminating in any kind of post-season bid, might give us the momentum we needed to be able to sell portal transfers on the idea of coming here to play for a program on the upswing.

If we crap the bed again, that will be a difficult concept to sell to anyone.

Fred might have earned an extra year, given the clear improvements made within the program.

However, I *fear* that an extra year would just be delaying the inevitable because, unless we hit the jackpot in the portal, we once again just won't have the horses to compete.