uneblinstu's postgame chatter: vol 13; ed 4 - South Dakota

15 minutes ago, LK1 said:

Charges are called correctly about 1/3 of the time based on most metrics.  Tonight was definitely an anomaly.  It is almost always best to crash into defenders these days because blocks are so often called.  I’m guessing that’s the rationale.  

I do think tonight was an anomaly in two regards. First, as you said, the calls in general aren't as skewed toward the charge as they were tonight. Second, most teams are now teaching their guys to jump straight up maintaining verticality. Outside of Foster Loyer from MSU, I haven't seen too many other BIG players attempt a charge 

11 minutes ago, LK1 said:

The insinuation that Thor is awesome because he isn’t selfish and can score at will but doesn’t feel like it really needs to stop.  He’s struggling to find a role with this roster, and that’s okay for now.  I’m sorry, but he getting outplayed by Shamiel and Kobe.  Look at the stat line and relative minutes.  

 

We all love Thor.  That shouldn’t negate the fact that we have a bonafide scorer in Teddy and a world class facilitator in Banton.  This team isn’t good enough from deep to frown on isolation scorers.  Teddy put on an iso clinic tonight.  Trey, Kobe, Delano, and Shamiel were all quietly in double figures.  Those are largely points that come from spreading out and taking your man off the dribble.  That ain’t Thor.  Against a zone?  Play him all night.  Against man?  At the 3?  He’s gonna have trouble getting open.  If he’s not hitting, you cannot tell me he is more valuable on the other end than Shamiel.  
 

I liked the distribution of minutes tonight, but I’d start Shamiel moving forward.  He’s earned it on both ends.  

Thor definitely has his limitations. I think he & Stevenson's minutes should be pretty even and depend on the matchups.

But Thor is one of the better 3 point shooters, we are going to need that skill. 

16 minutes ago, MichHusker said:

In terms of the jump stop, while I'm a big fan I know some coaches don't teach that anymore. Nate Oats down at Alabama spoke at our coaches clinic in Michigan two years back and teaches his guys to go off one foot all the time. Right or wrong, I wonder what our staff teaches

Yeah, guess I'm just old school. I just see so many college defenders rotate over to take a charge. The jump stop gives you a chance to find the open man down low or be able to kick it out for three (which seems to be what Coach Hoiberg likes)

6 minutes ago, Crush78 said:

Thor definitely has his limitations. I think he & Stevenson's minutes should be pretty even and depend on the matchups.

 

But Thor is one of the better 3 point shooters, we are going to need that skill. 

Thor’s passing against a zone is a sight to behold.  Against a packed m2m, those opportunities just don’t come as often unless you can be a threat off the dribble or are absolutely deadly from deep.  If he’s shooting 40% from 3, play him all night. But he’s not, and when he’s not, we have better options.  

42 minutes ago, LK1 said:

The insinuation that Thor is awesome because he isn’t selfish and can score at will but doesn’t feel like it really needs to stop.  He’s struggling to find a role with this roster, and that’s okay for now.  I’m sorry, but he getting outplayed by Shamiel and Kobe.  Look at the stat line and relative minutes.  

 

We all love Thor.  That shouldn’t negate the fact that we have a bonafide scorer in Teddy and a world class facilitator in Banton.  This team isn’t good enough from deep to frown on isolation scorers.  Teddy put on an iso clinic tonight.  Trey, Kobe, Delano, and Shamiel were all quietly in double figures.  Those are largely points that come from spreading out and taking your man off the dribble.  That ain’t Thor.  Against a zone?  Play him all night.  Against man?  At the 3?  He’s gonna have trouble getting open.  If he’s not hitting, you cannot tell me he is more valuable on the other end than Shamiel.  
 

I liked the distribution of minutes tonight, but I’d start Shamiel moving forward.  He’s earned it on both ends.  

Thor starts because With Delano, Teddy and Trey handling the ball and Lat being a sniper we don't really need another true scoring threat on the floor to start the game. Thor is good enough defensively against most 4's and enough of a threat from deep to be a 3 and D Stretch 4 with that starting group. He's also good at setting screens for those guys and taking the charges. That's what his role is.

Stevenson is a better overall player but again he's not needed right now in that starting lineup. He along with Webster give us that scoring punch off the bench when a guy like Yvan is on the floor and Lat and Banton aren't. In fact you can even think of it that way. Stevenson is replacing Lat and Yvan is replacing Thor for the sake of offensive production even though they aren't playing the same positions or doing that scoring the same way.

Once Walker and/or Andre are back I'd actually expect one of those guys to start next to Banton, Teddy, Trey and Lat and still have Stevenson coming off the bench with Kobe Yvan and Thor.

FWIW. Thor is playing the role Trevor Lakes will likely take next year.

According to my sources, Walker is one of the current alpha dogs on the team, one of the more vocal guys, and was about a lock to start. He, Yvan, and Eduardo were practicing at the 5, in about that order depth chart wise. 

Teddy is a hell of a player if he can ever become selective on when to shoot the deep ball and recognize hes damn near unstoppable driving to the bucket he hands down will be one of the best Nebrasketball players ever.

Speak of Husker greats has there ever been anyone as productive off the bench as Webster? That kid is a heck of a player and a great shot in the arm coming off the bench.

Blanton is another good player with the best court instincts and is clearly the leader of this team.

As I said in another thread with Yvan hes only 18 alot of places he would have been a red shirt last year. Anything production you get is a plus and he does produce at times.

Mayen is kinda streaky but definitely adds another demotion when hes on.

Thought tonight's game was a bigger win than what the score indicated. Defensively inside will still be the weakness of this team which is why I think we will be closer to .500 unless Walker is special on defense 

Overall theres no denying year 2 is an improved team and fun to watch. 

2 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

Found something tonight with Stevenson. McGowens is a great defender but it's tough to ask him to lock down on someone the size of Umude

 

 

That type of defense on a player who was killing NU is a big part of the 'why' the Huskers won this type of ballgame. Last year this kid would've put up 40!

6 hours ago, Blackshirt83 said:

 

Thor starts because With Delano, Teddy and Trey handling the ball and Lat being a sniper we don't really need another true scoring threat on the floor to start the game. Thor is good enough defensively against most 4's and enough of a threat from deep to be a 3 and D Stretch 4 with that starting group. He's also good at setting screens for those guys and taking the charges. That's what his role is.

 

Stevenson is a better overall player but again he's not needed right now in that starting lineup. He along with Webster give us that scoring punch off the bench when a guy like Yvan is on the floor and Lat and Banton aren't. In fact you can even think of it that way. Stevenson is replacing Lat and Yvan is replacing Thor for the sake of offensive production even though they aren't playing the same positions or doing that scoring the same way.

 

Once Walker and/or Andre are back I'd actually expect one of those guys to start next to Banton, Teddy, Trey and Lat and still have Stevenson coming off the bench with Kobe Yvan and Thor.

 

FWIW. Thor is playing the role Trevor Lakes will likely take next year.

In a previous presser,  I heard coach Hoiberg say that Banton was guarding the 4's which makes sense.   I  agree with your  assessment that Walker may join the starting 5.  He may not do that his first game back but within a couple of games I think.    I think that lineup matches up best to most B1G starting lineups.   They can go from there then.   For now though I like the idea of swapping Thor and Stevenson depending upon the match ups.  

I've noticed that McGowen likes to just stop or cut right in front of people when bringing the ball down the court in traffic.  Pretty heady way to pick up 2-3 cheap fouls a game on the other team.  Seems like he has eyes in the back of his head for a defender coming down the court a little out of control.  

11 minutes ago, RedEyedFanatic said:

I've noticed that McGowen likes to just stop or cut right in front of people when bringing the ball down the court in traffic.  Pretty heady way to pick up 2-3 cheap fouls a game on the other team.  Seems like he has eyes in the back of his head for a defender coming down the court a little out of control.  

He has done that a few times, my son and I have noticed he looks out of his peripheral and sees a guy coming, will then angle in front and just slow down- it’s kind of funny because it works 

The jump-stop and shot is an anathema in Hoiberg's offense. He uses metrics that say either take it to the rim or shoot the 3. I know that last year it was hammered into the guys to take it all the way to the rim and not pull up for the 6-8 footer and I assume that's the same this year. 

My old fogey brain has trouble processing those jump stops and euro steps.   Half the time it looks like traveling to me.   I could of swore there were a couple of instances last night where players jumped in the air, landed and then passed the ball.   Oh well, don't get me started.   I could go on and on about high dribbles and carries and traveling.    I think we have gotten away with more than a few travels....

I thought it was good for the team to play a game early in the season with foul trouble.  I think when it happens again this season they will be more comfortable with the rotation and rolls.  Hoping the team learned a lot and got better, the most you can ask for these early season games.

9 hours ago, MichHusker said:

I do think tonight was an anomaly in two regards. First, as you said, the calls in general aren't as skewed toward the charge as they were tonight. Second, most teams are now teaching their guys to jump straight up maintaining verticality. Outside of Foster Loyer from MSU, I haven't seen too many other BIG players attempt a charge 

Let me tell you a story about a guy named Brad Davison

4 games in 6 days will cause one to have a kind of klinker of a game.  Other years we loose this game, but we have some depth this year that will help a lot.

In think we win a few more in the league than the "experts" think.  But man is this league going to be tough to win much.

Teams are pretty much daring us to shoot the 3 ball. The book is out on Banton and Stevenson and they are still hard to stop. If they can develop a outside shot watch out. 
 

Didn't anyone else get the sense that the refs completely flipped the script on block/charge calls from one half to the next last night?

In the first half, we were getting called for charges; second half they were getting called for blocks on pretty much the same action.

I think the second half was more representative of how the games are typically called. A guy sliding between two defenders while driving to the rim isn't usually going to get called for a charge when the defender flops.

But the fact our guys were getting hammered with offensive fouls in the first half had a dramatic affect on how aggressive they could be for the rest of the game. Teddy Allen had 3 PFs in the first half and didn't have any in the 2nd.

8 minutes ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

Teams are pretty much daring us to shoot the 3 ball. The book is out on Banton and Stevenson and they are still hard to stop. If they can develop a outside shot watch out. 

Imagine next year when we add three legit perimeter shooters to the lineup.

7 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

Didn't anyone else get the sense that the refs completely flipped the script on block/charge calls from one half to the next last night?

 

In the first half, we were getting called for charges; second half they were getting called for blocks on pretty much the same action.

 

I think the second half was more representative of how the games are typically called. A guy sliding between two defenders while driving to the rim isn't usually going to get called for a charge when the defender flops.

 

But the fact our guys were getting hammered with offensive fouls in the first half had a dramatic affect on how aggressive they could be for the rest of the game. Teddy Allen had 3 PFs in the first half and didn't have any in the 2nd.

I knew we were in for a long first half when we had two techs in like 5 minutes of game time.  Those two calls screamed “I’m going to control this show” which you can do by calling things like charges.

10 hours ago, REDitus said:

 

Maybe Thor isn't feeling well?   

 

I noticed Lat was sweating profusely fairly early.  He didn't sweat that much in the other games.   I wonder if he is a bit under the weather.   Isn't Lat the one that had an upset stomach the previous game? 

He reportedly threw up due to chugging an energy drink before the North Dakota St game.  Perhaps for the first night game he threw down some jalapeño poppers.

In regards to the conversation about Thor in the starting lineup. From everything I've heard from Hoiberg in his press conferences, Fred has mentioned a couple of times that they hadn't practiced much with this starting lineup that they have used in the first few games and that Lat had been practicing at the 4 spot, so he is a little out of position at the 5 right now. To me, it sounds like when Andre and/or Walker are available to play, one of them will start at the 5 and Lat will start at the 4 spot and Thor will come off of the bench. Also, Hoiberg has brought up Walker, unsolicited, in 3-4 separate press conferences over the last 2-3 weeks and has talked about his leadership on the court, as well as saying that he is Nebraska's best post player at this point. That makes me think that he could be the one that starts in the 5 spot, once he is eligible. So my guess is that the starting lineup will have Lat at the 4 spot and Walker at the 5 spot, then Yvan and Andre will sub in for those guys in various combinations.

I don't want to bag on any player unnecessarily, so I'll hide this comment in the post-game chatter rather than in a thread specifically about one or the other. Having said that ...

After last night, Yvan's effective FG% is better than Thor's. Thor's 3-pt shooting hasn't been great at 21%, but his 2-pt shooting is even worse at 16.7%. If you factor in the added value of the 3-pt shots he's made, his effective shooting % is 27.5. Yvan has ONLY taken 2s. He made his only attempt last night (on a very strong move where he got done what he usually struggles with -- going up strong and banking it in from down inside without getting blocked) and now his effective FG% is 31.6%.

I was honestly surprised to see that Yvan is outscoring Thor on the season. Yvan is also far and away our best offensive rebounder, averaging about 6 per 40 minutes of playing time. That's pretty good.

11 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

Found something tonight with Stevenson. McGowens is a great defender but it's tough to ask him to lock down on someone the size of Umude

 

 

I was wondering about his minutes after the first weekend of games. Seemed they’d have to go up, but also understand why maybe he was playing less the first few games. I understand Thor getting minutes over him for his experience factor, and other guys (Teddy, Lat, Trey) because their ceilings are probably higher. It just seems he does the right things without many wrong things, but maybe can’t do as many things as others who were getting more minutes. And last night he showed some great defense. Feels that his role might be similar to Cheatam last year, but he might better at it.

Teddy is going to be this year's lightning rod because when we do lose games the first thing that gets looked at is who is taking shots and Teddy is taking shots. We'll see how he holds up in the conference but he's Terran Petteway reborn and I mean that in a good way.

Lat brings the shooting and tonight the rebounding we absolutely need from the 4.  Ball handling isn't part of the package just yet.

We shot 70% from the FT line last night. After last year didn't feel like 50%?  The weird thing is that Teddy Allen and Lat Mayen, two guys who shot over 80% from the line last year, are the guys bringing down the team average.

Yvan was playing very under-control.  His one shot was a 'this shot is going to go in two armed bank against the backboard' and at one point when he got the ball in a crowd he didn't force it up.