Golden St vs Cleveland

[HB]

2 games, 2 OTs. This has been the sort of Finals I've been hoping for.

 

From a competitiveness standpoint, yes.  From a basketball standpoint, not so much.     I mourn over what has happened to pervert the game of basketball.  

[jimmykc]

I second that, dimes. The first two games have been interesting enough to me to revive my waning interest in the NBA. And Lebron is good enough the refs are not protecting him like they seemed to do for MJ. Wilt, and to some extent Shaque, were the only other ones so dominant physically that officials would allow them to be mugged. And he handles this treatment with surprising aplomb. I think I may be becoming a James fan. After all the guy can't help it if he has appeared to be 40 since he turned 15.

[Dean Smith]

Close finish to NBA finals game 3. Do i think, "Boy Curry didn't step up the first half but finished strong, " or is it, "LeBron is playing out of this world"? No, I'm a grouchy old guy and I'm thinking, "boy are these two very average teams." I don't see either one of these teams making it out of the second round in the 80-00's let alone win a title. Think about how either of these two match up to Michael's Bulls or the Bad Boy Pistons or the Celtic & Laker teams of the 80's or even the 76er's team with Doc, Mose, and Toney. Dellavedova is wonderful the way he has stepped up his game to fill for the missing Kyrie Irving, but he's not good enough to make the roster of any of the before mentioned teams. Norris Cole started for a championship Heat team and couldn't be a bench warmer for any of the above teams. And I really mean I don't think either of these two finals teams make it to the finals against those teams. I don't see either team beating Drexler's Trailblazers or Stockton & Malone's Jazz or the Spurs teams with the Ice Man and Artis Gilmore. Jonny Moore had a quadruple double one night. (young guys Google him = player) If we truly want to see truly great teams again, we will have to de-expand the NBA. Rosters are too thin to match up and the AAU ball has cut back on the number of people who are able to hit the catch and shoot jump shot and the number of people who can really post up. I don't see this Cleveland team being able to compete with the 90's Cavaliers of Price, Elho, Hot Rod Williams, Brad Daugherty and from KU Darnell Valentine. Now there's a player I hadn't thought of for awhile. Which makes me think of K-State's Ronaldo Blackman and his Mavericks with Derek Harper, Mark Aguirre, Roy Tarpley, James Donaldson, and Detlef Shrempf and Sam Perkins, a young Sam Perkins was on that team. My God the NBA used to be better. That's a Dallas team that never sniffed the finals and how would any team match up with that deep line up today?

[jimmykc]

Can't disagree, Dean, but from a competitive standpoint this one has been excellent since neither team is good enough to put the other one away and James and Curry are so fun to watch.

[Norm Peterson]

Close finish to NBA finals game 3. Do i think, "Boy Curry didn't step up the first half but finished strong, " or is it, "LeBron is playing out of this world"? No, I'm a grouchy old guy and I'm thinking, "boy are these two very average teams." I don't see either one of these teams making it out of the second round in the 80-00's let alone win a title. Think about how either of these two match up to Michael's Bulls or the Bad Boy Pistons or the Celtic & Laker teams of the 80's or even the 76er's team with Doc, Mose, and Toney. Dellavedova is wonderful the way he has stepped up his game to fill for the missing Kyrie Irving, but he's not good enough to make the roster of any of the before mentioned teams. Norris Cole started for a championship Heat team and couldn't be a bench warmer for any of the above teams. And I really mean I don't think either of these two finals teams make it to the finals against those teams. I don't see either team beating Drexler's Trailblazers or Stockton & Malone's Jazz or the Spurs teams with the Ice Man and Artis Gilmore. Jonny Moore had a quadruple double one night. (young guys Google him = player) If we truly want to see truly great teams again, we will have to de-expand the NBA. Rosters are too thin to match up and the AAU ball has cut back on the number of people who are able to hit the catch and shoot jump shot and the number of people who can really post up. I don't see this Cleveland team being able to compete with the 90's Cavaliers of Price, Elho, Hot Rod Williams, Brad Daugherty and from KU Darnell Valentine. Now there's a player I hadn't thought of for awhile. Which makes me think of K-State's Ronaldo Blackman and his Mavericks with Derek Harper, Mark Aguirre, Roy Tarpley, James Donaldson, and Detlef Shrempf and Sam Perkins, a young Sam Perkins was on that team. My God the NBA used to be better. That's a Dallas team that never sniffed the finals and how would any team match up with that deep line up today?

So, what you're saying is that LJ has padded his stats against competition that is far inferior to what MJ played against.

[Norm Peterson]

 

I will chime in and say while I am not a fan of LeBron I do respect him on the court. Off the court he regrets "the decision" and owns it. Since then he has matured and he has been a pretty dang good role model for young men. I would argue better than MJ and Kobe, especially since neither one of those guys came up in the twitter, social media 24 hour world.

I would second that. Lebron has been willing to make statements about things he thinks are important outside of basketball, such as being willing to join the "I can't breathe" T-shirt group knowing some people would disagree with that. Michael Jordan refused to do anything that could possibly upset anyone and cut into his ability to make a buck. Charles may have said they are not role models but they are and Jordan had a pretty good sized platform to try to make a difference about anything he really believed in but the only thing we ever found out he believed was that he liked making money. Now you can tell me that there is nothing wrong with making money but that does mean the williness to take a stand does make Lebron a better role model.

 

I might second Pimp Mario, but I don't think making "statements about things he thinks are important outside of basketball" necessarily makes Lebron a good role model.  Or good anything, other than being another celebrity who thinks being a celebrity makes his opinions matter.

 

He did the "hoodie" thing when he was with the Heat and it turns out they were all wrong on what happened with that.  Reminds me of the Rams players who did the "hands up, don't shoot" thing coming onto the field before one of their games.  Turns out we now know "hands up, don't shoot" was a total fabrication and all reputable journalists have distanced themselves from it.

 

He's not sticking his neck out when he joins in popular movements that already have plenty of momentum.  Doesn't take any particular amount of courage to join in the crowd.  Charles Barkley, on the other hand, took some heat for taking a very unpopular -- but ultimately correct -- position by saying the Ferguson Grand Jury got it right.

 

So I'm not going to be critical of MJ for not using his platform.  Let's just be thankful for the guys like Jordan who live good lives and don't get into any trouble. 

[Dean Smith]

Can't disagree, Dean, but from a competitive standpoint this one has been excellent since neither team is good enough to put the other one away and James and Curry are so fun to watch.

Yes - I watched to the end.

[Dean Smith]

 

Close finish to NBA finals game 3. Do i think, "Boy Curry didn't step up the first half but finished strong, " or is it, "LeBron is playing out of this world"? No, I'm a grouchy old guy and I'm thinking, "boy are these two very average teams." I don't see either one of these teams making it out of the second round in the 80-00's let alone win a title. Think about how either of these two match up to Michael's Bulls or the Bad Boy Pistons or the Celtic & Laker teams of the 80's or even the 76er's team with Doc, Mose, and Toney. Dellavedova is wonderful the way he has stepped up his game to fill for the missing Kyrie Irving, but he's not good enough to make the roster of any of the before mentioned teams. Norris Cole started for a championship Heat team and couldn't be a bench warmer for any of the above teams. And I really mean I don't think either of these two finals teams make it to the finals against those teams. I don't see either team beating Drexler's Trailblazers or Stockton & Malone's Jazz or the Spurs teams with the Ice Man and Artis Gilmore. Jonny Moore had a quadruple double one night. (young guys Google him = player) If we truly want to see truly great teams again, we will have to de-expand the NBA. Rosters are too thin to match up and the AAU ball has cut back on the number of people who are able to hit the catch and shoot jump shot and the number of people who can really post up. I don't see this Cleveland team being able to compete with the 90's Cavaliers of Price, Elho, Hot Rod Williams, Brad Daugherty and from KU Darnell Valentine. Now there's a player I hadn't thought of for awhile. Which makes me think of K-State's Ronaldo Blackman and his Mavericks with Derek Harper, Mark Aguirre, Roy Tarpley, James Donaldson, and Detlef Shrempf and Sam Perkins, a young Sam Perkins was on that team. My God the NBA used to be better. That's a Dallas team that never sniffed the finals and how would any team match up with that deep line up today?

So, what you're saying is that LJ has padded his stats against competition that is far inferior to what MJ played against.

 

You trying to get me in trouble? Not a comment on LJ - Just a grouchy old guy who thinks Old Time Basketball was played at a higher level with much deeper teams.

[Norm Peterson]

 

 

Close finish to NBA finals game 3. Do i think, "Boy Curry didn't step up the first half but finished strong, " or is it, "LeBron is playing out of this world"? No, I'm a grouchy old guy and I'm thinking, "boy are these two very average teams." I don't see either one of these teams making it out of the second round in the 80-00's let alone win a title. Think about how either of these two match up to Michael's Bulls or the Bad Boy Pistons or the Celtic & Laker teams of the 80's or even the 76er's team with Doc, Mose, and Toney. Dellavedova is wonderful the way he has stepped up his game to fill for the missing Kyrie Irving, but he's not good enough to make the roster of any of the before mentioned teams. Norris Cole started for a championship Heat team and couldn't be a bench warmer for any of the above teams. And I really mean I don't think either of these two finals teams make it to the finals against those teams. I don't see either team beating Drexler's Trailblazers or Stockton & Malone's Jazz or the Spurs teams with the Ice Man and Artis Gilmore. Jonny Moore had a quadruple double one night. (young guys Google him = player) If we truly want to see truly great teams again, we will have to de-expand the NBA. Rosters are too thin to match up and the AAU ball has cut back on the number of people who are able to hit the catch and shoot jump shot and the number of people who can really post up. I don't see this Cleveland team being able to compete with the 90's Cavaliers of Price, Elho, Hot Rod Williams, Brad Daugherty and from KU Darnell Valentine. Now there's a player I hadn't thought of for awhile. Which makes me think of K-State's Ronaldo Blackman and his Mavericks with Derek Harper, Mark Aguirre, Roy Tarpley, James Donaldson, and Detlef Shrempf and Sam Perkins, a young Sam Perkins was on that team. My God the NBA used to be better. That's a Dallas team that never sniffed the finals and how would any team match up with that deep line up today?

So, what you're saying is that LJ has padded his stats against competition that is far inferior to what MJ played against.

 

You trying to get me in trouble? Not a comment on LJ - Just a grouchy old guy he thinks Old Time Basketball was played at a higher level with much deeper teams.

 

Haha!!!  You avoided my trap!!!  Touché!!! 

[Dean Smith]

 

 

I will chime in and say while I am not a fan of LeBron I do respect him on the court. Off the court he regrets "the decision" and owns it. Since then he has matured and he has been a pretty dang good role model for young men. I would argue better than MJ and Kobe, especially since neither one of those guys came up in the twitter, social media 24 hour world.

I would second that. Lebron has been willing to make statements about things he thinks are important outside of basketball, such as being willing to join the "I can't breathe" T-shirt group knowing some people would disagree with that. Michael Jordan refused to do anything that could possibly upset anyone and cut into his ability to make a buck. Charles may have said they are not role models but they are and Jordan had a pretty good sized platform to try to make a difference about anything he really believed in but the only thing we ever found out he believed was that he liked making money. Now you can tell me that there is nothing wrong with making money but that does mean the williness to take a stand does make Lebron a better role model.

 

I might second Pimp Mario, but I don't think making "statements about things he thinks are important outside of basketball" necessarily makes Lebron a good role model.  Or good anything, other than being another celebrity who thinks being a celebrity makes his opinions matter.

 

He did the "hoodie" thing when he was with the Heat and it turns out they were all wrong on what happened with that.  Reminds me of the Rams players who did the "hands up, don't shoot" thing coming onto the field before one of their games.  Turns out we now know "hands up, don't shoot" was a total fabrication and all reputable journalists have distanced themselves from it.

 

He's not sticking his neck out when he joins in popular movements that already have plenty of momentum.  Doesn't take any particular amount of courage to join in the crowd.  Charles Barkley, on the other hand, took some heat for taking a very unpopular -- but ultimately correct -- position by saying the Ferguson Grand Jury got it right.

 

So I'm not going to be critical of MJ for not using his platform.  Let's just be thankful for the guys like Jordan who live good lives and don't get into any trouble. 

 

I think too many people (not sure about Norm - luckily we don't have too many "outside" discussion on this board) but people praise any and retweet/share lots of celebrities saying things they agree with and condemning them as celebrities that think that being a celebrity makes their opinion important when they disagree with what they say. I'm in favor of everyone first getting informed (that's the important part) and then making a stand on things they feel are important. I don't think anything James did would be popular with most of the people his marketing people are targeting so yes he was willing to make a statement that could "tarnish" his image with his target audience and certainly wasn't the "safe" thing to do. And I'm not so sure Jordan and his betting ways were anything I'd want my kids to emulate. 

I'm also not sure what you've been reading but the Trayvon Martin incident played out fairly close to the way the "hoodie" crowd thought except stand your ground laws make pretty much anything legal. And George has continued his winning ways since getting off in that particular case. 

 

Grand juries indict anyone the prosecutor wants them to. Maybe a trial would have shown the true story in Ferguson but we will never know now. Most times I've found the truth to be somewhere between the two sides.

 

Just like "real" people some celebrities are idiots and some have something we can learn from whether we agree with it or not. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=39&v=p3-94BBs2rk

[Norm Peterson]

1.  And I'm not so sure Jordan and his betting ways were anything I'd want my kids to emulate. 

 

2.  I'm also not sure what you've been reading but the Trayvon Martin incident played out fairly close to the way the "hoodie" crowd thought except stand your ground laws make pretty much anything legal. And George has continued his winning ways since getting off in that particular case. 

 

3.  Grand juries indict anyone the prosecutor wants them to. Maybe a trial would have shown the true story in Ferguson but we will never know now. Most times I've found the truth to be somewhere between the two sides.

 

4.  Just like "real" people some celebrities are idiots and some have something we can learn from whether we agree with it or not.

Not to try to proliferate the off-topic discussion (because that never happens around here  )  BUT ...  I have to respond to some of this.

 

1.  I agree.  Jordan's gambling was a problem, though not as bad as Tiger's Wood's issues, which were not nearly as bad as Charlie Sheen's issues, though neither of the latter two appear to be "winning" any more.

 

2.  Yeah, uh, no.  I follow some stories like this and when I do I follow them closely.  "Stand Your Ground" had nothing to do with the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman trial except in the media.  It was not raised as a defense at trial.  The "hoodie crowd" got it totally wrong.  You don't have to take my word for it.  The trial was televised and you can still watch it on line like I did.  There was not a single prosecution witness -- including the experts -- who didn't end up basically testifying for the defense until you got to the very end and had Trayvon's mom on the stand.  Even Rachel Genteel's testimony helped the defense. 

 

Bottom line:  Witness after witness after witness testified that the tall, skinny guy with the hoodie was on top of and raining punches down on the short, heavier guy with the orange jacket and that the shorter guy in orange was yelling for help and trying to dodge blows from the tall, skinny guy in the hoodie. 

 

Trayvon's dad lived 100 yards from where the shooting took place, which was less than 100 yards from where Zimmerman parked his truck.  Find out how much time elapsed from when George Zimmerman tells the 911 operator that Martin took off running and doesn't know where he went until the end of that phone call.  How much more time after the Zimmerman call ended before other calls came in about a disturbance along that sidewalk?  And how much more time before the shots ring out in the audio tape of the 911 call?  The answer is more than enough for Trayvon to have gotten all the way back home. 

 

Where the altercation occurred is a matter of feet from where Trayvon was when Zimmerman last saw him and Zimmerman is on the phone with 911 for a couple of minutes after that.  The only reasonable conclusion is that Martin hid and waited for Zimmerman to come along before confronting him and knocking him down and starting to beat on him.

 

Just trying to clear up some misinformation.

 

3.   Ferguson?  You need to read the eye-witness accounts like I have.  Available on-line.  "Hands up, dont' shoot" was a lie.  Once again, I could go into details, but the bottom line is independent witnesses observed an altercation at the police vehicle with Mike Brown appearing to punch the officer.  His fingerprints were on the officer's weapon along with his blood from when his finger got caught in the slide mechanism when the weapon was discharged inside the officer's vehicle.  Indisputable fact.  And, again, witness after independent witness testified in recorded statements under oath that Mike Brown charged the officer and continued charging after he was repeatedly warned to stop.  Independent witnesses.  There's a good reason Eric Holder's justice department refused to bring Federal Civil Rights charges against the cop.  Again, clearing up misinformation.

 

4.  Totally agree with this.

 

Dean, thanks for that very civil and level-headed exchange on what could be seen as an inflammatory couple of issues. 

[Dean Smith]

 

1.  And I'm not so sure Jordan and his betting ways were anything I'd want my kids to emulate. 

 

2.  I'm also not sure what you've been reading but the Trayvon Martin incident played out fairly close to the way the "hoodie" crowd thought except stand your ground laws make pretty much anything legal. And George has continued his winning ways since getting off in that particular case. 

 

3.  Grand juries indict anyone the prosecutor wants them to. Maybe a trial would have shown the true story in Ferguson but we will never know now. Most times I've found the truth to be somewhere between the two sides.

 

4.  Just like "real" people some celebrities are idiots and some have something we can learn from whether we agree with it or not.

Not to try to proliferate the off-topic discussion (because that never happens around here  )  BUT ...  I have to respond to some of this.

 

1.  I agree.  Jordan's gambling was a problem, though not as bad as Tiger's Wood's issues, which were not nearly as bad as Charlie Sheen's issues, though neither of the latter two appear to be "winning" any more.

 

2.  Yeah, uh, no.  I follow some stories like this and when I do I follow them closely.  "Stand Your Ground" had nothing to do with the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman trial except in the media.  It was not raised as a defense at trial.  The "hoodie crowd" got it totally wrong.  You don't have to take my word for it.  The trial was televised and you can still watch it on line like I did.  There was not a single prosecution witness -- including the experts -- who didn't end up basically testifying for the defense until you got to the very end and had Trayvon's mom on the stand.  Even Rachel Genteel's testimony helped the defense. 

 

Bottom line:  Witness after witness after witness testified that the tall, skinny guy with the hoodie was on top of and raining punches down on the short, heavier guy with the orange jacket and that the shorter guy in orange was yelling for help and trying to dodge blows from the tall, skinny guy in the hoodie. 

 

Trayvon's dad lived 100 yards from where the shooting took place, which was less than 100 yards from where Zimmerman parked his truck.  Find out how much time elapsed from when George Zimmerman tells the 911 operator that Martin took off running and doesn't know where he went until the end of that phone call.  How much more time after the Zimmerman call ended before other calls came in about a disturbance along that sidewalk?  And how much more time before the shots ring out in the audio tape of the 911 call?  The answer is more than enough for Trayvon to have gotten all the way back home. 

 

Where the altercation occurred is a matter of feet from where Trayvon was when Zimmerman last saw him and Zimmerman is on the phone with 911 for a couple of minutes after that.  The only reasonable conclusion is that Martin hid and waited for Zimmerman to come along before confronting him and knocking him down and starting to beat on him.

 

Just trying to clear up some misinformation.

 

3.   Ferguson?  You need to read the eye-witness accounts like I have.  Available on-line.  "Hands up, dont' shoot" was a lie.  Once again, I could go into details, but the bottom line is independent witnesses observed an altercation at the police vehicle with Mike Brown appearing to punch the officer.  His fingerprints were on the officer's weapon along with his blood from when his finger got caught in the slide mechanism when the weapon was discharged inside the officer's vehicle.  Indisputable fact.  And, again, witness after independent witness testified in recorded statements under oath that Mike Brown charged the officer and continued charging after he was repeatedly warned to stop.  Independent witnesses.  There's a good reason Eric Holder's justice department refused to bring Federal Civil Rights charges against the cop.  Again, clearing up misinformation.

 

4.  Totally agree with this.

 

Dean, thanks for that very civil and level-headed exchange on what could be seen as an inflammatory couple of issues. 

 

We are going to have to just disagree on Martin/Zimmerman. I know Stand Your Ground was not used at that trial. I don't think it matters how close he was to home or how long the time was. Zimmerman had no business and was told by the 911 operator to not follow the kid. I don't think hiding and waiting for him is the only logical conclusion and if Zimmerman had not been following him then there is no confrontation. There are phone recording of Martin saying he was afraid because the man was following him. He quite likely could have hidden to avoid contact with Zimmerman. The bottom line is Zimmerman chose to follow the kid because he was black and wearing a hoodie which he basically said to the 911 operator. 

 

I think you might have some misinformation about Ferguson.

 

In Ferguson there is tons of conflicting eyewitness accounts. Some, like the lady they proved was out of state at the time of the incident was clearly lying, but there are witnesses that say Brown turned around and did have his hands up.  My point is they could of had a trial but the prosecutor didn't want one for whatever reason so we will never have a trial to try to find the truth. Brown according to the officer's testimony held the cigars with his right hand, and punched him with his right hand and the only marks on the officer's face was his right side which would be physically difficult. And I think you need to re-research the fingerprint thing. No one ever tested the gun for fingerprints because as the investigator testified to the grand jury, "Wilson never lost control of his gun." The fact that the gun was never tested for fingerprints is in the grand jury minutes - indisputable fact. You are correct when you say  Brown's blood in car would seem to support Wilson. Again my point is there was no trial to sort through the discrepancies that came from both sides. The reason there was no civil rights violation is because that law requires proving intent and that just couldn't be done unless Wilson came out and made incriminating statements.

 

I think the big issue in Ferguson is not Brown at all. If this was the first altercation between the police and the people that lived there you don't get any protest it is just an unfortunate event. The issue becomes not whether Wilson shot Brown as he stood there with his hands up, it is the fact that the residents based on their past experience found that story completely plausible. 

 

I also appreciate your civil tone. I'm pretty sure we are still going to disagree on a couple of these issues so lets just agree to go back to basketball.

[Norm Peterson]

But I don't mind disagreeing with you about this stuff and still agreeing with you about basketball. 

[Fullbacksympathy]

I disagree that the teams were deeper then.  They weren't nearly as athletic or talented defensively, in my opinion, but they were more skilled in offensive fundamentals, particularly spot up shooting.  

 

If LBJ pulls this series off with that dilapidated lineup, however, I think he should be including in any GOAT conversation.

 

For comparison's sake:

 

'95-'96 Bulls is most people's pick for GOAT team based on the 72-10 record.  Let's look at the rosters vs. the Cavs healthy starting lineup:

 

PG -- Steve Kerr vs. Kyrie Irving

SG -- Michael Jordan vs. Iman Shumpert 

SF -- Scottie Pippen vs. Lebron James

PF -- Dennis Rodman vs. Kevin Love

C -- Luc Longley vs. Timofey Mozgov

 

I personally think that starting lineup is a tossup.  Coming off the bench for Chicago is Tony Kukoc, Ron Harper, Jason Caffey, BIll Wennington.  Coming off the bench for Cleveland is Delly, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson, and sometimes Mike Miller.  

 

I don't see how there is any distinguishable difference between these squads on paper, and the Cavs are a very average "championship caliber" team.  There are more NBA-caliber athletes now than there were then, so there are more teams.  It doesn't necessarily translate to skill (and most GMs are awful these days when putting together a team of role players) though.  

[bleujay]

Lebron is a far better role model for children than MJ was. The gambling aside, MJ is a pretty well documented jerk. Part of that comes with the territory of being the best - but take a look at his HOF acceptance speech. Also, if you want a guide on how to not run an NBA franchise, take a look at MJ's history in the business - you could take a class on how poorly he has handled ownership

[49r]

Don't forget the part about MJ the world-class philanderer while we're running the poor fella down...

[hhcmatt]

Irrational like or dislike is certainly not limited to this particular topic on this board.

[AuroranHusker]

Charlotte Bobcats now Hornets (once again) have actually improved quite a bit once MJ got involved. Didn't go so well in DC, but that's not uncommon as the team there hasn't done too much in their history worth noting except changing their name from Bullets to Wizards.  

 

Oh well, to each their own. This thread is a real jewel, anyone can find something to pick apart. Have at it, the vultures are circling...

[Red Rum]

I really like the Finals this year. The only thing I don't like is they start at 8:00. I'm getting old and I get up early. I usually go to bed at halftime.

[HuskerFever]

I really like the Finals this year. The only thing I don't like is they start at 8:00. I'm getting old and I get up early. I usually go to bed at halftime.

 

Unfortunately NBA = West Coast (predominately).

[Handy Johnson]

For the sake of argument, who was the best Team the Bulls beat to win a Title? I'll say the '91 Lakers with Magic, Worthy and Sam. Maybe the '93 Suns with Barkley and KJ. Any team with Greg Ostertag ('97-'98 Jazz) doesn't count.

[Handy Johnson]

Imagine Jordan, Bird or Magice sitting at a podium after a Playoff loss ( a LOSS) and bragging about how they're the Greatest Player in the World.

[kldm64]

That's the difference is those great players just let their play do the talking where LeBron has to tell everyone how great he is.  And he wonders why people don't like and respect him as much as MJ. 

[Huskerpapa]

I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.

Michael Jordan

 

 

By the way, if you want to read a few great Michael Jordan trash talking stories, here ya go.  LeBron is great, Kobe was great, Magic was great, Bird was great, Jabbar was great, Oscar was great, Wilt was great, Russell was great...but there was/is only one MJ...

 

http://www.viralhoops.com/michael-jordan-trash-talking-stories/

[Dean Smith]

The Jordan talking trash made me think of Petro. Drazen Petrovic was no Michael Jordan. I assume many of the younger crowd have no idea who he even was. But if he didn't die in a car crash at 28, everyone would know who he was. He couldn't shut Jordan down by any means, but he would never back down from the challenge. Petro was the one player I saw that no matter the effort Jordan gave, Jordan could not shut him down either. Whether it was Nets vs. Bulls or USA vs. Croatia, Petro scored on Jordan. Classic shooter (over 40% from 3 for his short NBA career) but also just a flat out scorer. A joy to watch play because you could see how joyful he was to be playing.