Expectations

[NUdiehard]

I have seen a recurring theme on this board that I have difficulty digesting or understanding.  It revolves around what fans should expect from MIles, his team and his program.  I am not talking so much about wins and losses per se, but more about things like player turnover, coaching turnover, recruiting, coaching, etc.

 

For instance, when Pitchford and Tarin announce they are leaving the program (your could throw in previous players like Serge, Hawkins, etc), many people respond by saying "Well, there are 600+ players who transfer every year so this much be expected".  Uh, Okay? Does this somehow make it fine or better for our program?  I am not sure what the point of this comment is.  If my son gets in trouble at school for having poor behavior, is it excused if he says that "all the other kids were doing it too"?  This may be a bit dramatic, and I get that coach Miles can't control everything, but in the end it is his program and he is responsible for everything that happens in his program.

 

There are approximately 340 div. 1 programs, and each year about 250 of them are terrible and another 60 are not good enough to get an at-large bid to the dance.  So do we want or expect our program to be just like them? 

 

If Nebraska simply continues to do what is "expected" or "usual" or "commonplace" in college basketball, then NU will continue to be terrible and have no chance to be a regular top tier member of the B1G and a regular participant to the dance.  In order for NU to get where we all want it to be, NU must go against the norm and against the current.  We have no tradition to fall back on.  We cannot expect to just show up and win year after year.  Our coach is going to have to be special.  Above the grade.  Better than most.  He is going to have to be able to do something that so many coaches at NU have failed to do during their tenure here.  Doing the norm, or what other schools are doing, will not get it done.

 

Most fans simply acknowledge that assistant coaches leave and that is to be expected and maybe actually a good thing (shows we are moving up heh?)  Well, you might want to investigate Bo Ryan's staff at Wisconsin and see how much turnover he has had over the years.  How about Osborne (I know, I know, different time different era, etc).

 

And as for players leaving.  So we don't need Tarin, or Pitchford, or Hawkins, or Serge.  I would take Serge right now in a heartbeat.  Mock me all you want.  But argued he should have redshirted his first year here and now he would be a RS sophomore next year.  He is a legit 7 feet tall.  He has much better hands than stone hands Moses.  Is he stiff?  Yes.  Is he a total stiff?  I have no idea because he never had the chance to stay and develop here.  And why not?  Last year NU had an open scholarship--completely unused.  thus, it would have cost Miles and NU nothing (in terms of other recruits) to keep him.  This year, 2 unexpected players left (which apparently happens every year so Miles could "expect it"), and now we are trying to fill 2 scholarships in May with no big man on the roster.  If Serge ends up playing any productive minutes at Bradley (or wherever he is at), then I am going to be frustrated that he isn't still here. 

 

If Miles wants to succeed here at NU, he needs to find a way to break down the wall of expectations.  If he simply accomplishes what is "expected" of him, then he will join the long list of failures.  So for players, he either needs to recruit like a monster every year just like so many other elite coaches in the conference do (ie, OSU, Mich, MSU, UW, Maryland, IU, Ill, not to mention teams like Purdue, Iowa, etc) OR he needs to recruit solid players and "develop" them over 4 or 5 years.  Those are the only two options.  Hate to break it, but Miles is not going to "out-coach" the bulk of the coaches in this league.  Too many great coaches.  Hopefully he can match the best, but he will not outcoach them.  So its either recruit entire roster of 4* and a few 5*, or coach up and develop some high 3* to join the occasional 4*.  

 

Tarin Smith is not an elite player.  And maybe Bakari will turn out to be as good or better.  But maybe not.  And frankly, I find it highly unlikely that Bakari will be better as a freshman than Tarin would be as a sophomore.  At some point, the turnover and starting over has to end and the buildup has to begin. 

 

In fact, if you take the position that it must be expected for 2-3 players to leave every year, then as fans we really can't get too excited about a good recruiting class like this year.  Let's say Watson and Morrow struggle early but show flashes and then actually start to produce some quality minutes by then end of next year.  What good is that if they both leave after next year.  Are we supposed to just chalk this up to "well, it happens everywhere, it is to be expected"?  That is the logical conclusion of that position isn't it? 

[49r]

Well...

 

That's certainly one way to look at it.

[hhcmatt]

I have seen a recurring theme on this board that I have difficulty digesting or understanding.  It revolves around what fans should expect from MIles, his team and his program.  I am not talking so much about wins and losses per se, but more about things like player turnover, coaching turnover, recruiting, coaching, etc.

 

I would think our expectation is that every year we recruit better and better players based on building relationships, program, brand, etc. Regardless of whether they stay here for a year or five years, players need to be replace by someone of at least equal or higher talent. More turnover just means we had better be able to pull in more talent. 

 

Building a program with relatively low turnover is one way a program can achieve success. It's absolutely not the only way nor a guaranteed way.

[Norm Peterson]

Well...

 

That's certainly one way to look at it.

I'll take your word for it. 

 

Out of curiosity, what was the "it" we're looking at?  (In ten words or less, please.)

[hal9000]

I think Dimes said it best in another thread when he said that if Nebraska had little to no roster turnover then we would be in the minority rather than the norm.  If you think our expectations should be higher, why stop at player retention?  Why not have expectations that we recruit 4 and 5 star players annually?

[NUdiehard]

I think Dimes said it best in another thread when he said that if Nebraska had little to no roster turnover then we would be in the minority rather than the norm.  If you think our expectations should be higher, why stop at player retention?  Why not have expectations that we recruit 4 and 5 star players annually?

Hal, do you expect that at some point NU should be a consistent participant in the NCAA tourney?

 

If you answer yes to the question, then:

 

(1) Do you expect the coach to consistently recruit high 3* players and a few 4* players and then keep and develop the large majority of those players for 4-5 years? 

 

OR

 

(2) Do you expect the coach to consistently recruit 4* and 5* players annually?

 

OR

 

(3) If you think there is another method in which the coach can achieve the expected goal of consistently participating in the dance that does not require either 1 or 2 to be met, then I would be interested to hear that method.

 

If you answered NO to the first question (about whether you expect the team to eventually be a consistent participant in the NCAA tourney), then this would explain why we see things differently in regards to 1 or 2.

[Silverbacked1]

Well let's see. Guy left because he lost the love of basket..wait I got it back but I want a pay up grade. another actually might be good enough to play at the next level. another guy thinks he is better and should have had more playing time or was real really really homesick. Another guy wasn't that good and most likely should not have been here in the first place, he might play some or a lot at a mid major which I think you just said we don't want to become so... and then we had the last guy leave because of either he didn't get to play enough, wanted to be closer to home or his favorite person said come home because the guys around here are starting to look cuter each day.

I personally don't see where these are all on coach. but then again I may have not understood what you were saying because as you know when something gets long to read...lol look,a,squirrel.

[hskr4life]

I actually read the whoooleeee thing............. Yikes.

[HuskerFever]

 

I think Dimes said it best in another thread when he said that if Nebraska had little to no roster turnover then we would be in the minority rather than the norm.  If you think our expectations should be higher, why stop at player retention?  Why not have expectations that we recruit 4 and 5 star players annually?

Hal, do you expect that at some point NU should be a consistent participant in the NCAA tourney?

 

If you answer yes to the question, then:

 

(1) Do you expect the coach to consistently recruit high 3* players and a few 4* players and then keep and develop the large majority of those players for 4-5 years? 

 

OR

 

(2) Do you expect the coach to consistently recruit 4* and 5* players annually?

 

OR

 

(3) If you think there is another method in which the coach can achieve the expected goal of consistently participating in the dance that does not require either 1 or 2 to be met, then I would be interested to hear that method.

 

If you answered NO to the first question (about whether you expect the team to eventually be a consistent participant in the NCAA tourney), then this would explain why we see things differently in regards to 1 or 2.

 

 

I didn't log into HHC tonight to take an exam.

[hal9000]

 

I think Dimes said it best in another thread when he said that if Nebraska had little to no roster turnover then we would be in the minority rather than the norm.  If you think our expectations should be higher, why stop at player retention?  Why not have expectations that we recruit 4 and 5 star players annually?

Hal, do you expect that at some point NU should be a consistent participant in the NCAA tourney?

 

If you answer yes to the question, then:

 

(1) Do you expect the coach to consistently recruit high 3* players and a few 4* players and then keep and develop the large majority of those players for 4-5 years? 

 

OR

 

(2) Do you expect the coach to consistently recruit 4* and 5* players annually?

 

OR

 

(3) If you think there is another method in which the coach can achieve the expected goal of consistently participating in the dance that does not require either 1 or 2 to be met, then I would be interested to hear that method.

 

If you answered NO to the first question (about whether you expect the team to eventually be a consistent participant in the NCAA tourney), then this would explain why we see things differently in regards to 1 or 2.

 

Yes to your first question. 

 

I'd expect Miles and staff to recruit and develop 3 & 4 star recruits regularly, with a healthy balance of each.  Anything better than that would be beyond my expectations.  Then as the inevitable departures occur, I expect Miles to bring in new recruits equal to or better than the players they are replacing.  

 

As to retaining them all for 4-5 years on a continual rotation of players, I just don't have that expectation, and it's simply because this is the day and age we live in.  I mean it would be nice to keep and develop all of our recruits every year, but it's the players who don't have the patience for this process more than it is anything the coaches do (or don't do).  

 

Players want playing time and want to play right away.  Coaches don't always have the luxury develop them year by year so that by they time they are juniors and seniors they are starters.  Instead they need to try to get players who are able to come in and contribute right away.  In a way, freshman, jucos and transfers have replaced the 4 year traditional player development system.  

 

So to me it's not that much of a problem, and every team out there pretty much has to deal with the same thing.  

[NUdiehard]

 

 

I think Dimes said it best in another thread when he said that if Nebraska had little to no roster turnover then we would be in the minority rather than the norm.  If you think our expectations should be higher, why stop at player retention?  Why not have expectations that we recruit 4 and 5 star players annually?

Hal, do you expect that at some point NU should be a consistent participant in the NCAA tourney?

 

If you answer yes to the question, then:

 

(1) Do you expect the coach to consistently recruit high 3* players and a few 4* players and then keep and develop the large majority of those players for 4-5 years? 

 

OR

 

(2) Do you expect the coach to consistently recruit 4* and 5* players annually?

 

OR

 

(3) If you think there is another method in which the coach can achieve the expected goal of consistently participating in the dance that does not require either 1 or 2 to be met, then I would be interested to hear that method.

 

If you answered NO to the first question (about whether you expect the team to eventually be a consistent participant in the NCAA tourney), then this would explain why we see things differently in regards to 1 or 2.

 

Yes to your first question. 

 

I'd expect Miles and staff to recruit and develop 3 & 4 star recruits regularly, with a healthy balance of each.  Anything better than that would be beyond my expectations.  Then as the inevitable departures occur, I expect Miles to bring in new recruits equal to or better than the players they are replacing.  

 

As to retaining them all for 4-5 years on a continual rotation of players, I just don't have that expectation, and it's simply because this is the day and age we live in.  I mean it would be nice to keep and develop all of our recruits every year, but it's the players who don't have the patience for this process more than it is anything the coaches do (or don't do).  

 

Players want playing time and want to play right away.  Coaches don't always have the luxury develop them year by year so that by they time they are juniors and seniors they are starters.  Instead they need to try to get players who are able to come in and contribute right away.  In a way, freshman, jucos and transfers have replaced the 4 year traditional player development system.  

 

So to me it's not that much of a problem, and every team out there pretty much has to deal with the same thing.  

 

Hal, I appreciate the well-reasoned response.  Overall, I can certainly understand your thinking on this.  I do have one follow up question.  When you say "as the inevitable departures occur, I expect Miles to bring in new recruits equal to or better than the players they are replacing", do you mean the new players are better as freshmen than the players they replaced were "as freshmen" or as they would be had they returned (i.e., soph, jr. senior). For instance, if we are comparing Bakari to Tarin, do you expect Bakari next year to be better than Tarin was last year (as a freshman) or better than Tarin would be next year (as an experienced sophomore)?

 

To me, the question is whether your expectation level as to recruits and retaining players will lead to the expected result (NCAA births).  I hope you are correct that your expectations will be sufficient.  But it is difficult for me to see how recruiting mostly 3* and some 4* will lead to us finishing in the top half or third of the conference on a regular basis if we have the same turnover as the average team. 

 

In regards to recruiting, here is sample of what NU is up against in this league:

 

 

Over the past two weeks, five Big Ten opponents have added or kept the following touted big men:

>> Maryland signed 6-10, 250-pound Diamond Stone, ranked No. 7 in ESPN’s Top 100.

>> Michigan State signed 6-8, 275-pound Caleb Swanigan, No. 8 in the Top 100.

>> Indiana signed 6-10, 220-pound Thomas Bryant, No. 22 in the Top 100.

>> Illinois signed 6-11, 270-pound Mike Thorne, a graduate transfer from Charlotte who drew interest from Kansas, Kentucky and Pitt.

 

We now need to add Chris Lavert returning to Michigan for his senior year.  And there are many other such examples.  For instance, Ohio State's 2015 class has one 5* and three 4*.  Mich St. has one 5* two 4* and one 3* in addition to all their guys returning (including Valentine).    These are the teams we will need to compete with on the court on a year after year basis.  

 

But maybe it is possible as you say.  I certainly am encouraged by the 2015 recruits.  This definitely is a major step forward.  It is unfortunate that we still lack a big.  This is without a doubt my greatest concern and source of frustration.  But maybe that is just part of the building process that we are going through.  But if I am completely honest, if we don't get a transfer big in this class, I think we are looking at a bottom 6 standing in the B1G next year (early projections have us in the bottom 2 or 3).  Hopefully we will not have too many defections next year because losing any significant contributor (let along 2 or 3) would be another significant step back that would be difficult to overcome.

[jimmykc]

NUdie: I almost gave you the reflex red down arrow and then changed it to a greenie after thinking about your points. We all like coach Tim, but I personally liked Doc a lot and eventually agreed that it was best for him to go elsewhere. While next year should not be "make or break" I do think it will be critical for fans to feel that the Miles years have put us on the right road instead of just treading the same old water by next April. I think the Pelini era reached this point at this juncture and his personality just greased the slide in fan support.

[Fullbacksympathy]

Next year, we roll out:

 

Top 100 PG (F) (4*)

Top 50 SG (Jr) (4*) 

Top 50 PF (F) (4*)

Top 150 C (So.) (4*)

and potentially All Big 10 veteran Shields.

 

4 designated shooters:  Evelyn, White, McVeigh, Jacobson

 

I'm sorry.  I've been around too long to complain or be concerned about that.  Not having Rey running around the perimeter as a legitimate 3 point threat killed this team last year.  All the coaching in the world can't make someone a bonafide shooter.  

 

Tarin Smith wasn't that good.  Walt was the biggest waste of NBA talent I've ever seen come through this school.  Let's see what Miles can do with a legitimate 1-5 next year.  Keep in mind the flexibility:

 

Watson

Evelyn

White

McVeigh

Jacboson

 

We can actually put a 1-5 three point threat on the court next season if we feel like it.  It's nearly impossible to make adjustments with no adjusting personnel.  Miles will actually be able to coach next season rather than putting in the next guy who plays good defense, can sort of drive, and can't really shoot.  

[basketballjones]

Coming from me, I'm not sure this should mean a lot (since I'm also long-winded and rarely can hammer home a point either), but I'm not entirely sure what point you're getting at?

Are you saying we should be making a BIGGER deal about having a bad team this year, losing players, barely reloading as far as recruiting goes, and losing a really good assistant coach? I'm not sure we can.....

As far as expectations and mentality of the program, we share a lot of the same sentiments. I agree that we have to be the type of team that adapts to a different mindset and against the grain philosophies. For a lot of the same reasons as you state, I don't think that we'll ever have success trying to do the same things the blue blood programs are doing, we must find alternative ways to get there. How that's done I don't have an answer.... But then again, no one is paying me to figure that out yet!

[huskerbaseball13]

Next year, we roll out:

 

Top 100 PG (F) (4*)

Top 50 SG (Jr) (4*) 

Top 50 PF (F) (4*)

Top 150 C (So.) (4*)

and potentially All Big 10 veteran Shields.

 

4 designated shooters:  Evelyn, White, McVeigh, Jacobson

 

I'm sorry.  I've been around too long to complain or be concerned about that.  Not having Rey running around the perimeter as a legitimate 3 point threat killed this team last year.  All the coaching in the world can't make someone a bonafide shooter.  

 

Tarin Smith wasn't that good.  Walt was the biggest waste of NBA talent I've ever seen come through this school.  Let's see what Miles can do with a legitimate 1-5 next year.  Keep in mind the flexibility:

 

Watson

Evelyn

White

McVeigh

Jacboson

 

We can actually put a 1-5 three point threat on the court next season if we feel like it.  It's nearly impossible to make adjustments with no adjusting personnel.  Miles will actually be able to coach next season rather than putting in the next guy who plays good defense, can sort of drive, and can't really shoot.  

 

I really like the class we have coming in but I'm not expecting much out of Jacobsen, McVeigh, and Evelyn right away.  I expect minutes out of Marrow and Watson but will they be Big Ten quality minutes? Miles seems to think so...but really, what else can he say besides that?  We better prepare for next year to be ugly again but with some hope that the young guys shine some light on the future.   

[Norm Peterson]

The question of how much we get out of Morrow and Watson depends on the answer to exactly one question:  Are they worthy of their Rivals/ESPN rankings?  Because, if they are, they're going to play and they're going to be solid contributors from day one.

 

It's not hype.  It's not about living up to their hype at all.  It's really simple.  When you get to the top 75 or so players in the nation, the vast majority of them make an immediate impact on their team. 

 

We've had freshmen who weren't nearly this highly ranked come in and make waves before.  I like the odds that these very highly rated freshmen will do the same and more.

[hhcmatt]

In fact, if you take the position that it must be expected for 2-3 players to leave every year, then as fans we really can't get too excited about a good recruiting class like this year.  Let's say Watson and Morrow struggle early but show flashes and then actually start to produce some quality minutes by then end of next year.  What good is that if they both leave after next year.  Are we supposed to just chalk this up to "well, it happens everywhere, it is to be expected"?  That is the logical conclusion of that position isn't it? 

 

My personal overall reasoning for pointing out the nomadic nature of college basketball is that I assume a subset of this board follows Nebraska basketball fairly close but pays attention to little other college programs. In a vacuum, having guys come in and out of the program looks bad. When you realize that everyone from Duke to Cleveland St. is going through the same attrition problem, you realize that movement in college basketball is a systemic problem.  At that point, it becomes a matter at looking individually at each player/coach who has left and evaluating why. Overall, I don't see anything to be alarmed about. McKewon had a great piece about this recent phenomenon,

 

Overall, I think what you want is a culture/brand of excellence for the basketball program...something that we've managed to do with football over the last 50 years. I believe that is what we're trying to build here and you have kids like Terran, Shavon, Tai, and Benny who have bought into it even though it's not even close to being built. Miles was plugging in as much talent as he could get his hands at the start so once again it's not a shock that some of those guys haven't bought into this program and have moved on. I think Miles is building it...we have guys like Morrow, Roby, and Arop who have bought into the program that Nebraska is building instead of coming to school here because we just happen to play in a power conference. 

 

We bring up a Wisconsin a lot on here because they've built a program of consistent success relative to the amount of NBA-type talent they have recruited. Here's the thing: that took a long time. We didn't hire someone like Larry Brown to jump start this thing in 2 years...we hired a guy like Miles who has built his career on building programs and cultures. It's that resume along with the upward trend of recruiting year after year that has me bought into the Tim Miles Experience. It's my hope that when Miles is no longer the coach, should that be today or in 25 years, he's put us in a good enough place where the next guy can focus more on maintenance and long term goals than brand building.

[Fullbacksympathy]

 

Next year, we roll out:

 

Top 100 PG (F) (4*)

Top 50 SG (Jr) (4*) 

Top 50 PF (F) (4*)

Top 150 C (So.) (4*)

and potentially All Big 10 veteran Shields.

 

4 designated shooters:  Evelyn, White, McVeigh, Jacobson

 

I'm sorry.  I've been around too long to complain or be concerned about that.  Not having Rey running around the perimeter as a legitimate 3 point threat killed this team last year.  All the coaching in the world can't make someone a bonafide shooter.  

 

Tarin Smith wasn't that good.  Walt was the biggest waste of NBA talent I've ever seen come through this school.  Let's see what Miles can do with a legitimate 1-5 next year.  Keep in mind the flexibility:

 

Watson

Evelyn

White

McVeigh

Jacboson

 

We can actually put a 1-5 three point threat on the court next season if we feel like it.  It's nearly impossible to make adjustments with no adjusting personnel.  Miles will actually be able to coach next season rather than putting in the next guy who plays good defense, can sort of drive, and can't really shoot.  

 

I really like the class we have coming in but I'm not expecting much out of Jacobsen, McVeigh, and Evelyn right away.  I expect minutes out of Marrow and Watson but will they be Big Ten quality minutes? Miles seems to think so...but really, what else can he say besides that?  We better prepare for next year to be ugly again but with some hope that the young guys shine some light on the future.   

 

 

Agree on Jacobsen, McVeigh and Evelyn.  My evaluations are based on film.  Watson and Morrow are ready immediately, IMO.  They are elite recruits.  Same with White III.

 

So, a nucleus of Watson, White (two coaches have now said he's the best shooter they've ever coached), Shields, and Morrow should be pretty darned formidable.  They only player I'm putting "faith" in is Hammond, who I've stood by as someone that will be solid contributor next year.  He's the only real wildcard in my mind.  

 

The thing I like about the film of Jacobsen, McVeigh, and Evelyn is that they're all fundamentally sound players, and they can all shoot.  Defense can be taught.  Shooting can only be marginally improved.  The players that always worry me are the guards who do nothing but penetrate and out-athlete their high school competition.  That game doesn't always transfer.  

[NUdiehard]

Dimes, you are correct to give some context.  But I also think the "gross" number of transfers each year can skew the perception some.

 

According to a website I just checked, as of 5 days ago, there are 9 teams in the B1G that did not have a single transfer.  The only teams in the B1G that did have transfers were Ill, IU, NU, Purdue and Rutgers. 

 

I haven't researched it enough, but I would be curious to know how many players have transferred from Wisconsin over the past 3-5 years.  I know Uthoff was a big deal a few years ago, and there may have been others.  Maybe somebody knows more about this.

 

As you mention, Wisconsin is often used as the model of what we want to become.  I think even Miles has said this.  When I checked Wisconsin's coaching staff, his top two assistants have been with him forever.  As for players, I just don't recall seeing a lot of transfers from their program, but obviously I don't follow it as close.  I do know Bo has a history of redshirting and developing players over 4-5 years and that has produced miraculous results.

 

It probably is petty of me, but it is a bit of a pet peeve of mine when I see so many posters constantly say "you all are over-reacting, this happens all the time."  My favorite was during the season, when some of us would point out concerns about the team and its performance after a loss, many posters would chastise such comments and say "it is just one game, you are all over-reacting.  This isn't football.  One game doesn't make or break a season."  Ironically, they would keep saying this after loss after loss after loss.  I kept think "it isn't just one game we are concerned about, it is our performance over the entire season, including the multiple losses that continue to add up (and even the poor performances in the close wins over bad teams)."  In the end, those concerns noticed early in the season proved to be true for the whole season.

 

That is somewhat similar to my concerns here.  In isolation, it is easy to rationalize away each and every transfer, declaration for pro, assistant coach leaving, etc.  But when taken as a whole, I just think it is hard to deny that the all of them together will affect next season and possibly the long-term.  I want this program to succeed and have long-term success and stability and I think this board is simply a place to express concern or frustration when things happen that may thwart, stunt or slow-down that process.  And in some ways, I am simply saying that maybe there are some red flags that I am going to keep an eye on going forward.  I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting that it is doom and gloom and there is no hope.  But when I see areas of concern in the post season, just like many of us pointed them out during the season, I think it is fair to point them out.  And when I see good signs, such as a much improved recruiting class this year, I will point that out as well [if Miles finds a way to sign a quality transfer big for next year (2015), I will sing his praises from the rooftops!]   I just don't understand why some people think you have to pump sunshine 24/7 to be a true fan.  I just call it like I see it.  Everyone is free to disagree or make counter-points.  In fact, I feel I learn the most when I take a stance and then many people provide counter-positions.  There is nothing personal about it IMO.

[49r]

Dimes, you are correct to give some context.  But I also think the "gross" number of transfers each year can skew the perception some.

 

According to a website I just checked, as of 5 days ago, there are 9 teams in the B1G that did not have a single transfer.  The only teams in the B1G that did have transfers were Ill, IU, NU, Purdue and Rutgers. 

 

I haven't researched it enough, but I would be curious to know how many players have transferred from Wisconsin over the past 3-5 years.  I know Uthoff was a big deal a few years ago, and there may have been others.  Maybe somebody knows more about this.

 

As you mention, Wisconsin is often used as the model of what we want to become.  I think even Miles has said this.  When I checked Wisconsin's coaching staff, his top two assistants have been with him forever.  As for players, I just don't recall seeing a lot of transfers from their program, but obviously I don't follow it as close.  I do know Bo has a history of redshirting and developing players over 4-5 years and that has produced miraculous results.

 

It probably is petty of me, but it is a bit of a pet peeve of mine when I see so many posters constantly say "you all are over-reacting, this happens all the time."  My favorite was during the season, when some of us would point out concerns about the team and its performance after a loss, many posters would chastise such comments and say "it is just one game, you are all over-reacting.  This isn't football.  One game doesn't make or break a season."  Ironically, they would keep saying this after loss after loss after loss.  I kept think "it isn't just one game we are concerned about, it is our performance over the entire season, including the multiple losses that continue to add up (and even the poor performances in the close wins over bad teams)."  In the end, those concerns noticed early in the season proved to be true for the whole season.

 

That is somewhat similar to my concerns here.  In isolation, it is easy to rationalize away each and every transfer, declaration for pro, assistant coach leaving, etc.  But when taken as a whole, I just think it is hard to deny that the all of them together will affect next season and possibly the long-term.  I want this program to succeed and have long-term success and stability and I think this board is simply a place to express concern or frustration when things happen that may thwart, stunt or slow-down that process.  And in some ways, I am simply saying that maybe there are some red flags that I am going to keep an eye on going forward.  I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting that it is doom and gloom and there is no hope.  But when I see areas of concern in the post season, just like many of us pointed them out during the season, I think it is fair to point them out.  And when I see good signs, such as a much improved recruiting class this year, I will point that out as well [if Miles finds a way to sign a quality transfer big for next year (2015), I will sing his praises from the rooftops!]   I just don't understand why some people think you have to pump sunshine 24/7 to be a true fan.  I just call it like I see it.  Everyone is free to disagree or make counter-points.  In fact, I feel I learn the most when I take a stance and then many people provide counter-positions.  There is nothing personal about it IMO.

 

 

I think you may have a slightly different opinion of what the purpose of this message board is than the vast majority of others here, then...

[NUdiehard]

I notice you didn't boldface these sentences in my post:

 

 

But when I see areas of concern in the post season, just like many of us pointed them out during the season, I think it is fair to point them out.  And when I see good signs, such as a much improved recruiting class this year, I will point that out as well [if Miles finds a way to sign a quality transfer big for next year (2015), I will sing his praises from the rooftops!]

 

 So only sunshine pumping allowed huh? 

[hhcmatt]

I notice you didn't boldface these sentences in my post:

 

 

But when I see areas of concern in the post season, just like many of us pointed them out during the season, I think it is fair to point them out.  And when I see good signs, such as a much improved recruiting class this year, I will point that out as well [if Miles finds a way to sign a quality transfer big for next year (2015), I will sing his praises from the rooftops!]

 

 So only sunshine pumping allowed huh? 

 

That is not the intent of this forum and if that is the perception, it's not intentional.

I'll plan on elaborating on this a little later when I have more time.

[49r]

I notice you didn't boldface these sentences in my post:

 

 

But when I see areas of concern in the post season, just like many of us pointed them out during the season, I think it is fair to point them out.  And when I see good signs, such as a much improved recruiting class this year, I will point that out as well [if Miles finds a way to sign a quality transfer big for next year (2015), I will sing his praises from the rooftops!]

 

 So only sunshine pumping allowed huh? 

 

Nope.  You can rail against the program all you want I suppose.

 

I'm just not sure where you're going with all this.  Nor am I sure there's any real value in it.

[tbowman]

 

I notice you didn't boldface these sentences in my post:

 

 

But when I see areas of concern in the post season, just like many of us pointed them out during the season, I think it is fair to point them out.  And when I see good signs, such as a much improved recruiting class this year, I will point that out as well [if Miles finds a way to sign a quality transfer big for next year (2015), I will sing his praises from the rooftops!]

 

 So only sunshine pumping allowed huh? 

 

Nope.  You can rail against the program all you want I suppose.

 

I'm just not sure where you're going with all this.  Nor am I sure there's any real value in it.

 

 

This board is starting to become unbearable.  I get that the vast majority on this board like to talk about how great things are always and all the time.  That's fine. 

 

What has become unbearable is the mocking tone and criticism of anyone who dares question the coaching or the current health of the Nebraska basketball program.  Six comments from four different posters in this thread alone which serve no purpose whatsoever except to mock nudiehard.   

 

I get that no one like trolls, but there are legitimate concerns being raised on this board by individuals who have a long history here and are certainly not trolls.  Yet these critiques, often reasoned and thoughtful, are met with repeated snide and snarky comments from long time posters here.  It's ridiculous.  

 

Honestly 49r, what is the purpose of anything you've posted in this thread?  What value is there in it?  I don't see any. You've posted three comments in this thread and contributed nothing to the discussion other than you don't approve.  If you don't like or see value in the posts of those who take a critical eye then don't read it and don't respond to it.  

 

Nudiehard, in particular, has a long history of posting unique and thoughtful takes on this board.  I far prefer his insights to the non-stop banter about how absolutely nothing that happened this past season and now off season is in any way negatively connected to Miles or the coaching staff.  I don't happen to agree with that sunshine pumping assessment, but I don't troll every single thread of those who do and mock them.    

[49r]

Okay.  Legitimate concerns.  Sure.

 

That's fine, but it's all coming off a bit alarmist.  Like, we all know that the roster turnover this year was more than expected and frankly, more than should happen in a given year.  Yeah, that's not great.

 

Sometimes, not great things happen, and most of the time good or bad things happen to our favorite team whether we like it or not.  Furthermore, the vast majority of us have little to no say in what happens with roster and staff moves - and to that last point I'm being VERY generous.  In reality, there are probably about dozen folks - maybe less - outside of players' families and the coaches that are actually be able to make decisions regarding the makeup of the program. 

 

Do we need to sit around here like a bunch of foul tempered so-and-so's grumbling about how changes need to happen and happen QUICKLY dammit or else!!!

 

Or else, what?  We're going to sit around and furiously pound away at our keyboards writing War and Peace enumerating our "legitimate concerns"?

 

Nobody's saying that there's a company line to be toed here at HHC, and sunshine pumping certainly isn't a requirement, but man, it's a whole lot more pleasant when criticism is constructive.  I don't believe NUdiehard's criticisms come across as particularly constructive.

 

Especially when he goes into a rant about how ignorant we all are about what's really going on - or as far as he cares to see it anyway.  Then proceeds to frame his destructive criticism as "only wanting what's the best for the program" and saying things like "I'll point out good stuff when it happens" as if he's the final arbiter of what is good and bad with Husker hoops.

 

It's off-putting to say the least to read stuff like this.  And to tell the truth it's not even NUdiehard's message that's the issue.  It's more the way it's presented ITT that gets me.

 

In general, I appreciate his posts too.  He's always entitled to his opinion.  I would however just ask that perhaps a more considered approach would garner more interest in it.  That's all.