Game: Create an All-Time Starting Five with $15

[Dean Smith]

I have watched a lot of players come and go.  Lots.  You have great players, you have elite players and then you have the best player ever, at any position.  Michael was the greatest player ever.  There are a lot of elite players including Oscar, Dr. J, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Wilt, Kareem, and Kobe among others.  But Michael had no holes in his game.  Of the others, Kobe may be close, but Michael was more physical as well as being an athletic.With

With all due respect, I've always been of the camp that Michael has always been over-rated. One of the greatest of course, but by what criteria do you claim he is THE greatest? He's not the biggest winner - Bill Russell. He's not the greatest scorer - Abdul-Jabar all time and Wilt for game and season. Not the best all-around player - Oscar and Magic cleaned up the triple doubles. Oscar averaged a triple double for an entire season. 

 

He came around at the right time TV-wise. Magic may have had the all-time greatest single game performance in game 6 of the 1980 NBA finals vs. Philadelphia. Kareem out with an ankle and Magic steps in to jump center and goes off for 42 points, 14 of 14 from the free throw line, 15 rebounds, seven assists, and 3 steals. I watched that game on tape delay after the 10:00 news. Magic and Larry save the NBA, and you have this fabulous player who is made for TV that comes along right after them. That guy would have been the ABA version of Dr. J if anyone would have seen that version play. 

 

No player (that I've seen, I not THAT old) has been given the benefit of the doubt like Michael. Ask Bryon Russell about that. Michael is Michael and is a great one, but the 1998 finals by all rights should have gone to a game 7. The announcer has the audacity to say Russell slips on the play after Michael pushes him down to get open. David Stern decided to sell the NBA by selling the stars and this greatest ever myth was made up as an ad campaign. And yes, I admit he started that campaign with the Magic/Bird rivalry. It made great TV and the way Michael played made great TV.

 

We are all the product of our youth and love the players of "our" era. So I admit I may be bias but I would prefer both Larry and Magic over Michael if I was starting a team.  And along those lines, How is Patrick Ewing not on the list of centers?

[Huskerpapa]

Yep, a couple other teams thought the same about Michael, and how many championships did they win.  And with all due respect to Russell, he wasn't the best center of his time frame, Wilt was.  Russell just had the best team and best coach of his time.  Russell could defend, but was more limited on offense.  Wilt chose to play on defense when his mood allowed for it.  Michael had all around game and played like a warrier each night, both offensively and defensively.  Bird was a terrific player, but he was not at all athletic.  He may have had the best basketball IQ during his playing days, but he had many limitations. 

 

There is a reason that Michael is named on so many sites as the greatest in history.  It is usually just those that cheered for other teams who do not consider Michael as #1

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history#photo-title=Tim+Duncan+%25281997-present%2529&photo=30219331

[Silverbacked1]

Also agree with you on your thoughts Dean.

biggest thing that always bothers me about when we try to compare different players from different times is which rules and equipment are we going to use?

Would like to see what some of the "old" guys would have done with today's rules. Also would have liked to see how well today's players would do without the traveling, palming, physical play. Just some things to think about.

What would Jessie Owns run today with the nutrition and equipment? He ran on a cinder track and dug holes for starting blocks. He also came back to the US and couldn't even eat in most of the restaurants in the country. If he could have worked out with the US Olympic training facilities.

Just fun to talk about it.

[hhcmatt]

With all due respect, I've always been of the camp that Michael has always been over-rated. One of the greatest of course, but by what criteria do you claim he is THE greatest? He's not the biggest winner - Bill Russell. He's not the greatest scorer - Abdul-Jabar all time and Wilt for game and season. Not the best all-around player - Oscar and Magic cleaned up the triple doubles. Oscar averaged a triple double for an entire season. 

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

 

#1 MVP award shares

#1 PPG

#1 Player Efficiency Rating

#1 Win Shares per 48 minutes

 

If being in the top 10 instead of being #1 is your definition of overrated...I guess.

 

 

How is Patrick Ewing not on the list of centers?

 

He's not knocking anyone out of the top 4.  You could make the argument he deserves to be there over Hakeem.  I won't.

[Dean Smith]

 

With all due respect, I've always been of the camp that Michael has always been over-rated. One of the greatest of course, but by what criteria do you claim he is THE greatest? He's not the biggest winner - Bill Russell. He's not the greatest scorer - Abdul-Jabar all time and Wilt for game and season. Not the best all-around player - Oscar and Magic cleaned up the triple doubles. Oscar averaged a triple double for an entire season. 

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

 

#1 MVP award shares

#1 PPG

#1 Player Efficiency Rating

#1 Win Shares per 48 minutes

 

If being in the top 10 instead of being #1 is your definition of overrated...I guess.

 

 

How is Patrick Ewing not on the list of centers?

 

He's not knocking anyone out of the top 4.  You could make the argument he deserves to be there over Hakeem.  I won't.

 

Yes that is my definition of over-rated. Top 10 definitely but I see no criteria that puts him on top as the GOAT.  And I'd rather have Ewing than O'Neal. I might have Hakeem sitting number 2 on my list.

[Fullbacksympathy]

At age 29, Lebron is better than MJ, Kobe, Bird and Magic were at the same age.  At the very least, he's more accomplished, statistically.  I'm not calling him the GOAT yet, but he certainly has a case based on current trajectory.