officiating

[uneblinstu]

We discussed this some in another thread, but there are some calls that need to be overhauled.  The block/charge call for instance.  Jake Bogus and Nick Bahe talked about it for a while on The Drive and basically summed up my thoughts.  

 

 

http://theticketfm.com/index.php?option=com_podcastmanager&view=feed&feedname=4&format=raw

 

Than Nick went on a major rant on it in this one (about 6:30 in, prefaced by a discussion about commercials, which I found enteraining, I know Bahe's not everyone's cup of tea, I enjoy him, beware there is a Creighton riff in there, too, so beware) :

http://theticketfm.com/index.php?option=com_podcastmanager&view=feed&feedname=4&format=raw

 

 

[KZRider]

Just a few pet peeves of mine:

 

1) Letting players hack and otherwise beat each other up in the lane.

2) 3 second violations that aren't called. What's to point of HAVING a 3 second rule for time in the lane if you aren't going to call it?

3) Traveling. Just change the rule to 3 steps instead of two since that's how it is used.

 

They reward physicality and athleticism over basketball skills and I would prefer it to be the other way around.

[Dean Smith]

Just a few pet peeves of mine:

 

1) Letting players hack and otherwise beat each other up in the lane.

2) 3 second violations that aren't called. What's to point of HAVING a 3 second rule for time in the lane if you aren't going to call it?

3) Traveling. Just change the rule to 3 steps instead of two since that's how it is used.

 

They reward physicality and athleticism over basketball skills and I would prefer it to be the other way around.My

 

My issue is with any 3 second violation that is called. For those that like a flow to the game (previous thread) 3 seconds is the most preventable call in the game. The ref tells the player to get out of the lane, player gets out of the lane, game continues on. Of course if the idiot refuses to move then you have to make the call but that rarely happens. The spirit of or the intent of the rule is based on whether they gain an advantage. No advantage - no violation. Al McGuire said you can tell how bad an official is by how many 3 seconds they call. He felt a good official should be able to make it through a season without making that call once.

[colhusker]

You can look more athletic if you can take three steps and not two.  Officiating is pathetic all the way around.  Basketball is becoming nothing more than semi-organized street ball.

[jayschool]

Hesitation and change-of-direction dribbles: we used to call those "palming."

 

Oh my God, I'm old.

[Blindcheck]

I think the root of the bad officiating is they have allowed more and more steps.

 

Traveling and palming the ball are the root of the problem.

 

because it becomes so difficult to guard a player who takes extra steps or carries the ball, hesitating while dribbling, defensive guys began to grab and clutch...and eventually that became so common place, it was allowed...

 

Heck, most guys start their jump stop after they grab the ball instead of before they grab the ball...and so when they go up for a shot, a player may bump them with the body even if they get all ball up high and officials just let the body go, because they have given the offensive player so much of an advantage by changing what is a legal jump stop.

 

I think if they called Travelling and palming the ball, and called the clutching and grabbing that went along with it, the game would clean up in a hurry.

 

I was watching a big ten game in the big ten tourney and counted 8 travels in a 4 minute media period that went uncalled...and many times the travels put the defensive player at a huge disadvantage and they start using their hands instead of their feet to try to catch up.

[Silverbacked1]

I just wish that they would come out and say what has changed and then we wouldn't be so upset. 

 

If you are letting them have 3 steps tells us, or that grabbing is okay now,etc...

 

The biggest problem is that we as fans really don't know what it going to be called any more.

 

I also hate this "you can't call that at the end of a game" crap.  If it is a rule in the first half, it should be at the end too.

 

The other thing I wish that they could stop is all the talking to the refs. 

 

I mean there is a call and a coach comes unglued.  I mean stuff that would have got you tossed in the old days. And would make your mom wash out your mouth with soap.

 

Nothing, but the next X number of calls go for the coach who yelled the most.

 

Just don't like it.

 

I will now take my soap box and put it under my arm and quietly waddle off down the block.

[Huskerpapa]

It is interesting to watch film of the game of basketball twenty years ago versus today.  The game went (basically) from no contact to full contact...when that occurred, judgment of the officials creates issues.  When is a push part of the play and when does it become a foul?  When can you hand check, and when is it a foul.  Contact used to be a foul.  It used to be that players were admired for their artistic shots, not their artistic dunks.  Muscle matters today more than then.

 

I am not saying the game is better or worse, but it is unquestionably different.  Because of that (in my narrow little mind) official's calls and non calls are much more under the microscope today. 

[KZRider]

CWG, IMO the game is worse. For example, the Syracuse-Indiana game was decided by how the refs called it tonight. They allowed Syracuse to absolutely maul Indiana players, especially anyone near the paint. Multiple players should have fouled out and yet only one had even 4 fouls. Indiana, which has made a living getting to the FT line more than the other teams, did well just to have about the same number of attempts as 'Cuse. Now I'm not wagging a finger at Syracuse. They totally took Indiana out of its game by playing the way they were allowed. But the refs decided this game by abandoning the beauty of the sport in favor of street ball. I did not enjoy watching the game at all. Marquette plays much the same way and there could be blood on the court before that one is over.

[colhusker]

Silverback I think you are correct and will take it one more, not sure the players know what will be called anymore.  In the Syracuse-Indiana game last night the Indiana kid was coming up the court full speed and the Syracuse kid bounces into him stopping his progress as he is trying to push the ball, no call made.  A couple minutes later, the Syracuse guard gets a slight hand check at mid-court, not stoping his progress and a foul is called.  I have to give the coaches who can watch crap like this, and the steps and the double dribbling, and the palming and the foul/no foul calls for 40 minutes and just accept it.

[colhusker]

CWG, IMO the game is worse. For example, the Syracuse-Indiana game was decided by how the refs called it tonight. They allowed Syracuse to absolutely maul Indiana players, especially anyone near the paint. Multiple players should have fouled out and yet only one had even 4 fouls. Indiana, which has made a living getting to the FT line more than the other teams, did well just to have about the same number of attempts as 'Cuse. Now I'm not wagging a finger at Syracuse. They totally took Indiana out of its game by playing the way they were allowed. But the refs decided this game by abandoning the beauty of the sport in favor of street ball. I did not enjoy watching the game at all. Marquette plays much the same way and there could be blood on the court before that one is over.

Agree it is worse and your thoughts on that game last night mimic mine completely.

[Daledangdarn]

CWG, IMO the game is worse. For example, the Syracuse-Indiana game was decided by how the refs called it tonight. They allowed Syracuse to absolutely maul Indiana players, especially anyone near the paint. Multiple players should have fouled out and yet only one had even 4 fouls. Indiana, which has made a living getting to the FT line more than the other teams, did well just to have about the same number of attempts as 'Cuse. Now I'm not wagging a finger at Syracuse. They totally took Indiana out of its game by playing the way they were allowed. But the refs decided this game by abandoning the beauty of the sport in favor of street ball. I did not enjoy watching the game at all. Marquette plays much the same way and there could be blood on the court before that one is over.

Agree it is worse and your thoughts on that game last night mimic mine completely.

 

The same thing happened in the Louisville-Colorado State game, CSU basically had no chance due to how the refs decided to let them play and not call fouls on Louisville.

[nebrasketball10]

Charge vs. block vs. no-call is the toughest call in the game IMO.

 

My biggest peeves: anticipated calls and adjusting to a team's style. Anticipated calls need no explanation.

 

I hate when teams like Louisville (KU used to be bad, too) play an extremely physical style with hand checks, reach ins, etc. that would normally be fouls, but - since they play that way the entire game - they don't get called. It's like the refs adjust what is/isn't a foul because of how they play. If they called all of those hand checks and reaches fouls, they would foul everyone out and no one would like that!

 

Ok, I didn't read this entire thread before drafting this post, and it looks like others have discussed this, as well.

[cozrulz]

Officiating at all levels continues to get worse.  It seems like there is never a good flow to games.  I don't necessarily think the game is much more physical.  Just maybe more fouls are being called.  Seems like we would get better action if we didn't have one team going to the line every other possession.

 

I'm for getting rid of block/charge.  Nobody will be flopping if there won't be a call.  Most of the time it is a setup anyway.  Player being set has turned into player that can slide under a guy in the air and get set.

[greymonkey]

Officiating at all levels continues to get worse.  It seems like there is never a good flow to games.  I don't necessarily think the game is much more physical.  Just maybe more fouls are being called.  Seems like we would get better action if we didn't have one team going to the line every other possession.

 

I'm for getting rid of block/charge.  Nobody will be flopping if there won't be a call.  Most of the time it is a setup anyway.  Player being set has turned into player that can slide under a guy in the air and get set.

 

You forgot to add this...here you go.

 

[Cazzie22]

Indiana did get mauled by Syracuse and never adjusted.  I've never been a fan of the Big East mugging style BB.  The officiating is worse in the Women's game.

[colhusker]

My other issue with crappy officiating is watching to see if the shot goes in before calling a foul or not.  It is either a foul or not a foul.

[Norm Peterson]

Y'know, I'm beginning to wonder if, to a certain extent, bad officiating isn't a product of the fact that we seem to handle officials with kid gloves.  Everyone else in a game gets criticized.  You can criticize the coaching, you can criticize the players.  But you don't see the talking heads criticize the officials. 

 

Seems like you see fewer and fewer replays of questionable calls looking to see if they got it right.  In basketball, that is.  Football, they'll show it over and over.

 

But, in basketball, it seems like broadcasters bend over backwards not to call officials out on missed calls.  Especially apparent with the Big Ten network.  I mean, the coaches get fined for saying anything bad about refs and I wonder if the play-by-play and color analysts for the Big Ten network are subject to being punished if they point out a missed call.

 

And when the officials know that really no one can/is going to call them out, I'm not sure there's much of an incentive for them to get it right.  Or do it better.  Or whatever.

 

I just think that broadcasters and leagues might be coddling the refs too much trying to protect "the integrity of the game" by not calling officials into question.  And the bad officiating we continue to see may be a product of that kind of policy.

[Daledangdarn]

Y'know, I'm beginning to wonder if, to a certain extent, bad officiating isn't a product of the fact that we seem to handle officials with kid gloves.  Everyone else in a game gets criticized.  You can criticize the coaching, you can criticize the players.  But you don't see the talking heads criticize the officials. 

 

Seems like you see fewer and fewer replays of questionable calls looking to see if they got it right.  In basketball, that is.  Football, they'll show it over and over.

 

But, in basketball, it seems like broadcasters bend over backwards not to call officials out on missed calls.  Especially apparent with the Big Ten network.  I mean, the coaches get fined for saying anything bad about refs and I wonder if the play-by-play and color analysts for the Big Ten network are subject to being punished if they point out a missed call.

 

And when the officials know that really no one can/is going to call them out, I'm not sure there's much of an incentive for them to get it right.  Or do it better.  Or whatever.

 

I just think that broadcasters and leagues might be coddling the refs too much trying to protect "the integrity of the game" by not calling officials into question.  And the bad officiating we continue to see may be a product of that kind of policy.

It's ridiculous what refs can get away with. If Joey Crawford was a player or coach he would have been permanently kicked out of the NBA, its not good when the biggest hothead on the court is a ref.

[cozrulz]

Y'know, I'm beginning to wonder if, to a certain extent, bad officiating isn't a product of the fact that we seem to handle officials with kid gloves.  Everyone else in a game gets criticized.  You can criticize the coaching, you can criticize the players.  But you don't see the talking heads criticize the officials. 

 

Seems like you see fewer and fewer replays of questionable calls looking to see if they got it right.  In basketball, that is.  Football, they'll show it over and over.

 

But, in basketball, it seems like broadcasters bend over backwards not to call officials out on missed calls.  Especially apparent with the Big Ten network.  I mean, the coaches get fined for saying anything bad about refs and I wonder if the play-by-play and color analysts for the Big Ten network are subject to being punished if they point out a missed call.

 

And when the officials know that really no one can/is going to call them out, I'm not sure there's much of an incentive for them to get it right.  Or do it better.  Or whatever.

 

I just think that broadcasters and leagues might be coddling the refs too much trying to protect "the integrity of the game" by not calling officials into question.  And the bad officiating we continue to see may be a product of that kind of policy.

 

Good points.  Is there an incentive to get better?

 

And that brings us to...How many refs are betting on games?  Especially concerning the NBA.  Officiating certainly has gotten worse under Stern.  Does it change after he is gone? 

 

My biggest concern is the flow of the game is bad.  Too much stoppage of action.

[Blindcheck]

too much stoppage is bad...but for it to get fixed, it will take a whole lot of stoppage until players adjust.

 

They need to call travelling, fouls, etc...as the rules state it...

 

Eventually, players will adjust...it will just be an ugly game as they get the game back.

 

I play a lot of ball at the YMCA at noon and play with a younger generation...they are very skilled, but if they had to play with the rules that I had to play with, some would not be able to showcase their skills..

[Huskerpapa]

Credibility of officials are typically in question.  And now this...

 

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21989633/pac-12-head-of-officials-investigated-for-targeting-arizonas-sean-miller

[TheGov21]

Credibility of officials are typically in question.  And now this...

 

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21989633/pac-12-head-of-officials-investigated-for-targeting-arizonas-sean-miller

 

I never want guys to lose jobs and feel bad for saying this, but they should fire Rush.  Whether he was joking or not, you don't say that and then one of the officials there makes a contrversal tech call against him.  Doesn't look good.

[cozrulz]

Seems he probably was pulling the same stuff from 1998-2003 in the NBA.

[Huskerpapa]

Seems he probably was pulling the same stuff from 1998-2003 in the NBA.

 

I cannot swear to this coz, but I believe it is a different Ed Rush.