A theory of momentum in sports

[Norm Peterson]

I was listening to a podcast with a Stanford neuroscientist who studies dopamine. I can't think of his name. I'll find it if anyone's really interested.

 

Anyway, the subject came up of the production of testosterone as a result of repeated "wins" versus suppression of testosterone when you're on a losing streak.

 

Made me wonder if that's why winners tend to continue to win and losers tend to continue to lose. And maybe lends some scientific support to the approach of scheduling a soft non-con so that your team learns to win. You could call it the Doc Sadler approach. As opposed to the Tim Miles approach, which was to schedule aggressively in a season in which we had a bunch of talented freshmen who were still just learning the college game and who were almost totally demoralized by the end of the buzzsaw year they went through.

 

Anyone with a sciency background want to take a stab at this and give us an explainer? Anyone know of any research? #toolazytogoogle

[Chuck Taylor]

Always wondered what our problem was. Turned out to be low T.

 

[cornfed24-7]

14 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

Always wondered what our problem was. Turned out to be low T.

 

They make pills for that

[jimmykc]

Standhardinger must have been an outlier to this hypothesis.

[Norm Peterson]

Not the thread I wanted. The thread I needed.

 

[49r]

@Norm Peterson to get back to the premise, yes I believe there is something to that theory.  Bill Snyder did basically that very thing in building KSU up to be a football power.  He played four complete creampuffs in the non-con and by the time they got to Big 8 play they would be more than halfway to bowl eligibility.  Just beat Iowa State and Kansas and BOOM!  Bowl game!

 

Once they hit that bowl threshold, then they were just off to the races.  The psychology of winning is a real thing I believe.

Edited November 19, 2022 by 49r

[busticket]

2 hours ago, 49r said:

@Norm Peterson to get back to the premise, yes I believe there is something to that theory.  Bill Snyder did basically that very thing in building KSU up to be a football power.  He played three complete creampuffs in the non-con and by the time they got to Big 8 play they would be halfway to bowl eligibility.  Just beat Iowa State and Kansas and BOOM!  Bowl game!

 

Once they hit that bowl threshold, then they were just off to the races.  The psychology of winning is a real thing I believe.

Absolutely.  Learning how to win, the power of positive thinking, whatever you want to call it, it’s real.  Being confident in what your doing helps you perform, sports or otherwise.  

I personally believe after the last 20 years of NU football, we have a losing mindset firmly entrenched.  The kids have that pervading feeling of “here we go again” when something bad happens.  Having a coach who can change that mindset is huge and not everyone can do it.  That is why Bill Snyder was so amazing.  

[Silverbacked1]

This basketball game right now is showing this to be true

[Dead Dog Alley]

9 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

I was listening to a podcast with a Stanford neuroscientist who studies dopamine. I can't think of his name. I'll find it if anyone's really interested.

 

Anyway, the subject came up of the production of testosterone as a result of repeated "wins" versus suppression of testosterone when you're on a losing streak.

 

Made me wonder if that's why winners tend to continue to win and losers tend to continue to lose. And maybe lends some scientific support to the approach of scheduling a soft non-con so that your team learns to win. You could call it the Doc Sadler approach. As opposed to the Tim Miles approach, which was to schedule aggressively in a season in which we had a bunch of talented freshmen who were still just learning the college game and who were almost totally demoralized by the end of the buzzsaw year they went through.

 

Anyone with a sciency background want to take a stab at this and give us an explainer? Anyone know of any research? #toolazytogoogle

 

[hhcscott]

One of the first lessons stressed in Nebraska coaching certification was that you should not be putting your players in unsafe competitive situations. When you play way above or below your "weight class" you aren't being fair to the athletes. Nebraska's problem is that we have B1G physiques, but lower division skills/execution.

[AuroranHusker]

Minnesota football has firmly believed in that strategy under PJ Fleck. It's worked well for them. Nebraska football could learn a thing or two from the Fleckster.

 

 

[Ron Mexico]

On 11/17/2022 at 9:57 AM, Norm Peterson said:

I was listening to a podcast with a Stanford neuroscientist who studies dopamine. I can't think of his name. I'll find it if anyone's really interested.

 

Anyway, the subject came up of the production of testosterone as a result of repeated "wins" versus suppression of testosterone when you're on a losing streak.

 

Made me wonder if that's why winners tend to continue to win and losers tend to continue to lose. And maybe lends some scientific support to the approach of scheduling a soft non-con so that your team learns to win. You could call it the Doc Sadler approach. As opposed to the Tim Miles approach, which was to schedule aggressively in a season in which we had a bunch of talented freshmen who were still just learning the college game and who were almost totally demoralized by the end of the buzzsaw year they went through.

 

Anyone with a sciency background want to take a stab at this and give us an explainer? Anyone know of any research? #toolazytogoogle

Here's how this looks in the real world.

My son is wrestler and baseball player. He just started HS.

All through his time in youth wrestling he struggled mightily. While he did get better every year he was never able to have a winning record, or even win that many matches in the tournaments he competed. This wasn't because he isn't a good wrestler or didn't work hard enough, it was because the competition level was so fierce. During his 7th grade youth season, he chose to forgo wrestling in junior high and instead stuck with his youth wrestling club. He was much more competitive but the results just weren't there. He's been one of those kids who has improved slowly over time.

Fast forward to his 8th grade season and I asked him if he wanted to just wrestle with his jr high friends and not wrestle for his club. Club wrestling is absolutely brutal here in the Midwest. All of those kids he wrestled where incredibly skilled. He could have done both if he wanted but I strongly encouraged him to just wrestle with his friends. He'd been wrestling with this club since he was 6yrs old, however I though he needed a change of scenery. I wanted to get a test of success, which I knew he would get in jr high. Much to the disappointment of his youth coaches he focused only on wrestling at his junior high. Up to this point I was always telling him how much he had improved, however it just wasn't registering. During his 8th grade year he had only 1 loss and that was to a kid who out weighted him by 25lbs and was also a club wrestler. We get to the end of the Jr. High season and he wanted to wrestle in districts with his club and see if he could qualify for state. I was surprised but very happy. His bracket was loaded. His 1st match was against the kid, a friend of his who ended up finishing 2nd in state that year. This kid had previously pinned him w/in 30 secs every time that they had wrestled against each other. He lost 9-3 and took him the distance. His next 2 matches where against kids who had previously pinned him every every time he had faced them before. He ended up beating them both by major decision. Because there where 11 kids in his bracket he had to win 1 more match to qualify for state. He lost to a kid who was in his club. His confidence going into HS was through the roof. The week after Thanksgiving he'll be competing in wrestle offs to make the JV starting squad. If he wins there he'll get a chance to wrestle against the varsity kids to see if he can earn a varsity spot. He has a great chance to be the JV squad starter as he dominates the 2 kids at his weight class at practice, and one of them is a sophomore.

 

All he needed was to get some wins under his belt. He needed that confidence boost. 

 

On a side note his youth wrestling coaches thought it was a bad move for him to focus only on Jr. High. When they saw him for the 1st time that season at districts they where amazed at how he performed. Said he looked like a completely different wrestler.

From 1st grade to 7th grade he had a grand total of 5 wins out of almost 75+ matches.

8th grade he had 3 total losses out of 25 matches.

 

[Handy Johnson]

You never hear John Cook complain about our facilities, the Weather, our lack of Mountains/Oceans & he seems to do alright. 

[HuskerFever]

8 hours ago, Handy Johnson said:

You never hear John Cook complain about our facilities, the Weather, our lack of Mountains/Oceans & he seems to do alright. 

 

We also have an abundance of in-state talent and close relationships with coaches across the state. Something you really can't say about our men's programs over the last few decades.

[Handy Johnson]

2 hours ago, HuskerFever said:

 

We also have an abundance of in-state talent and close relationships with coaches across the state. Something you really can't say about our men's programs over the last few decades.

There’s certainly THAT which can’t be undersold, but he’s also getting the 2-3 Best players in the Country from all over because they want to play with the BEST. That doesn’t happen by accident & internal expectations build a momentum all their own that does perpetuate. 

[brfrad]

Watching the football game today.  We went up 14 - 3, but I thought our chance to win was near zero.  We were certain to find a way to lose this game, and lo and behold we did.