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Now that we know Trev is willing to fire a coach mid-season ...

Norm Peterson

By Norm Peterson
in The Haymarket Hardwood

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hskr4life

hskr4life

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

Fine upstanding citizens usually don't get a lifetime ban from the Lincoln Country Club, especially when they have the highest profile job in the state.


Wait— what!?!? Is this legit?

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basketballjones
basketballjones

I actually have some decent football "insider" connections and what I have heard is basically this:    Mickey does not want the job and the team and everyone knows that. It was made known in

uneblinstu
uneblinstu

🙄   Now that we know Trev is willing to fire a coach mid-season, I'm hoping Fred's team gets off to a good start.

Huskerpapa
Huskerpapa

I'm not yet prepared to dance on a coaching grave quite yet.  Am I optimistic about an uber successful basketball season?  No; but I am willing to give it a chance. That said, I am still upset ab

Dead Dog Alley

Dead Dog Alley

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, hskr4life said:


Wait— what!?!? Is this legit?

 

I can't say for 100%, it's from a second hand source but from one I trust - a former player and graduate assistant who has plenty of contacts.  I heard this at the start of the 2021 season.

Edited by Dead Dog Alley
hskr4life

hskr4life

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

I can't say for 100%, it's from a second hand source but from one I trust - a former player and graduate assistant who has plenty of contacts.  I heard this at the start of the 2021 season.


Just searched in Twitter and it was heavily discussed last year.

Edited by hskr4life
  • 1 month later...
Norm Peterson

Norm Peterson

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I've been rethinking this. I think there's more to the equation than just a willingness to fire a coach mid-season.

  • They didn't wait till the buyout went down substantially. Must have therefore had *significant* motivation.
  • Recently-released metrics indicate there was a very low bar to keep his job and reinstate his $5 mill salary.
  • Chances are they lose to OU regardless, so ...
  • Did they not want to risk him beating Indiana as his last game before firing him? Could they have fired him IU game-day morning? Probably couldn't have done that.
  • Rumors swirling about a turbulent life off the field may be the difference between a coach who gets to finish a season and a coach who does not? Does this save Hoiberg, hypothetically?

Problem is now this:

  • Firing Frost after game 3 instead of waiting until the buyout goes down puts you in a new predicament: Mickey Joseph having success.
  • If MJ picks up home wins against Illinois and Minnesota and then either Wisconsin or Iowa to finish the season, he'll have six wins -- Frost's metric. How do you not hire him permanently at that point? Does the ND win count for bowl eligibility? If he gets bowl eligible ...
  • Rumors I've heard, though, they aren't looking at Joseph. Is this incorrect? Would they consider MJ?

If you intend to fire Frost, but don't want to permanently hire any of the potential interim candidates, Game Theory, or whatever strategic concept you'd employ, would suggest the following:

  • Let Frost stay on and lose to OU.
  • Fire him either before or after the IU game (probable loss) and save the difference in buyout $$$.
  • His interim would then not have enough season left to right the ship and get bowl-eligible; saves you the PR problem of not appearing to give the interim guy a chance.
  • Go after whoever you want at the end of the season.

Can we reasonably, logically infer, therefore, that Trev is open to hiring MJ if we earn a bowl invite?

 

Can we also reasonably, logically infer, therefore, that there was much more than a losing record involved in the decision to terminate Frost early? There were some good reasons to wait even if he was doing poorly, and they did not.

 

And, how this applies to Hoiberg is that it seems reasonable to conclude that there's not likely to be a mid-season coaching change in hoops even if we seem headed for another 7-10 win season.

Fullbacksympathy

Fullbacksympathy

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

I've been rethinking this. I think there's more to the equation than just a willingness to fire a coach mid-season.

  • They didn't wait till the buyout went down substantially. Must have therefore had *significant* motivation.
  • Recently-released metrics indicate there was a very low bar to keep his job and reinstate his $5 mill salary.
  • Chances are they lose to OU regardless, so ...
  • Did they not want to risk him beating Indiana as his last game before firing him? Could they have fired him IU game-day morning? Probably couldn't have done that.
  • Rumors swirling about a turbulent life off the field may be the difference between a coach who gets to finish a season and a coach who does not? Does this save Hoiberg, hypothetically?

Problem is now this:

  • Firing Frost after game 3 instead of waiting until the buyout goes down puts you in a new predicament: Mickey Joseph having success.
  • If MJ picks up home wins against Illinois and Minnesota and then either Wisconsin or Iowa to finish the season, he'll have six wins -- Frost's metric. How do you not hire him permanently at that point? Does the ND win count for bowl eligibility? If he gets bowl eligible ...
  • Rumors I've heard, though, they aren't looking at Joseph. Is this incorrect? Would they consider MJ?

If you intend to fire Frost, but don't want to permanently hire any of the potential interim candidates, Game Theory, or whatever strategic concept you'd employ, would suggest the following:

  • Let Frost stay on and lose to OU.
  • Fire him either before or after the IU game (probable loss) and save the difference in buyout $$$.
  • His interim would then not have enough season left to right the ship and get bowl-eligible; saves you the PR problem of not appearing to give the interim guy a chance.
  • Go after whoever you want at the end of the season.

Can we reasonably, logically infer, therefore, that Trev is open to hiring MJ if we earn a bowl invite?

 

Can we also reasonably, logically infer, therefore, that there was much more than a losing record involved in the decision to terminate Frost early? There were some good reasons to wait even if he was doing poorly, and they did not.

 

And, how this applies to Hoiberg is that it seems reasonable to conclude that there's not likely to be a mid-season coaching change in hoops even if we seem headed for another 7-10 win season.

 

I think if Mickey gets this group to a bowl game he absolutely deserves to be hired, especially after that metric was released.  Crazier things have happened.  There could be a huge upside in terms of an assistant pool as well.  

 

I'm very curious to see how Trev handles Fred.  I enjoyed watching the scrimmage.  Fred could very well establish a culture Trev likes this season and Trev would have an equally difficult decision to make.  I think the guy likes to develop leaders and work with what he has.  I would think something like .500 would be a reasonable metric for Fred at this point, though, which may not be attainable.    

nustudent

nustudent

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

I've been rethinking this. I think there's more to the equation than just a willingness to fire a coach mid-season.

  • They didn't wait till the buyout went down substantially. Must have therefore had *significant* motivation.
  • Recently-released metrics indicate there was a very low bar to keep his job and reinstate his $5 mill salary.
  • Chances are they lose to OU regardless, so ...
  • Did they not want to risk him beating Indiana as his last game before firing him? Could they have fired him IU game-day morning? Probably couldn't have done that.
  • Rumors swirling about a turbulent life off the field may be the difference between a coach who gets to finish a season and a coach who does not? Does this save Hoiberg, hypothetically?

Problem is now this:

  • Firing Frost after game 3 instead of waiting until the buyout goes down puts you in a new predicament: Mickey Joseph having success.
  • If MJ picks up home wins against Illinois and Minnesota and then either Wisconsin or Iowa to finish the season, he'll have six wins -- Frost's metric. How do you not hire him permanently at that point? Does the ND win count for bowl eligibility? If he gets bowl eligible ...
  • Rumors I've heard, though, they aren't looking at Joseph. Is this incorrect? Would they consider MJ?

If you intend to fire Frost, but don't want to permanently hire any of the potential interim candidates, Game Theory, or whatever strategic concept you'd employ, would suggest the following:

  • Let Frost stay on and lose to OU.
  • Fire him either before or after the IU game (probable loss) and save the difference in buyout $$$.
  • His interim would then not have enough season left to right the ship and get bowl-eligible; saves you the PR problem of not appearing to give the interim guy a chance.
  • Go after whoever you want at the end of the season.

Can we reasonably, logically infer, therefore, that Trev is open to hiring MJ if we earn a bowl invite?

 

Can we also reasonably, logically infer, therefore, that there was much more than a losing record involved in the decision to terminate Frost early? There were some good reasons to wait even if he was doing poorly, and they did not.

 

And, how this applies to Hoiberg is that it seems reasonable to conclude that there's not likely to be a mid-season coaching change in hoops even if we seem headed for another 7-10 win season.

IMO they fired Frost for the reasons Alberts said.  It was early enough to attempt to salvage the season.

 

Making a bowl game with this schedule and our roster is not a specifically difficult feat.  Despite Frost's inability to get us to a bowl game, getting to a bowl is a very very minor accomplishment.  So I don't think that alone is going to hitch Mickey to this job.  Especially considering our schedule this year.  We seem to praise Mickey for simply not sucking.  I think he's done a decent job overall, but I don't think he's walking on water.  I think people just underestimate how bad Frost was.   

 

I think Trev was also being strategic and knew that the Georgia Southern game was the final gut punch to everyone.  He struck while the iron was hot.  Politically, after that game, he had virtually everyone on his side.  The last thing he wants is for Scott to pull off some random wins over mediocre opponents to earn back a little support.   

 

Additionally, CFB and CBB are different animals.   There's more to gain in getting a jump on things in CFB than there is in CBB.  Strategically and structurally, it makes far more sense to rip the band aid off when Trev did, rather than wait until the end of the year.   That doesn't apply as much in CBB.  Even if this season starts off poorly and seems destined to the same end the last 3 have.  I don't see Fred getting fired until the day after the B10 tourney.  There's just not the same value there and Fred has at least acted in a responsible manner, even if he has failed as a coach.

 

Ultimately, I think there is a sizeable difference in the character (or at least assumed character) between the two head coaches.  Hoiberg may have gotten a lot wrong in his first 3 years here.  Like Frost on the football side.  But he hasn't been an arrogant fool who blames everyone else for their issues.  Hoiberg didn't try to cancel an OU series.  He didn't (at least officially) have us being investigated by the NCAA.  He didn't talk trash on/blame his predecessor only to have a much lower winning percentage.  Both have embarrassed us performance wise from a win-loss percentage.  But really, only one has embarrassed us from a PR standpoint.   If Hoiberg has shown a willingness to change and try to adapt, that carries some weight.   

 

I don't except Hoiberg to survive this year.  But I think there is a world of difference between firing Frost when we did and firing Hoiberg mid-season.

Edited by nustudent
Navin R. Johnson

Navin R. Johnson

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

I've been rethinking this. I think there's more to the equation than just a willingness to fire a coach mid-season.

  • They didn't wait till the buyout went down substantially. Must have therefore had *significant* motivation.
  • Recently-released metrics indicate there was a very low bar to keep his job and reinstate his $5 mill salary.
  • Chances are they lose to OU regardless, so ...
  • Did they not want to risk him beating Indiana as his last game before firing him? Could they have fired him IU game-day morning? Probably couldn't have done that.
  • Rumors swirling about a turbulent life off the field may be the difference between a coach who gets to finish a season and a coach who does not? Does this save Hoiberg, hypothetically?

Problem is now this:

  • Firing Frost after game 3 instead of waiting until the buyout goes down puts you in a new predicament: Mickey Joseph having success.
  • If MJ picks up home wins against Illinois and Minnesota and then either Wisconsin or Iowa to finish the season, he'll have six wins -- Frost's metric. How do you not hire him permanently at that point? Does the ND win count for bowl eligibility? If he gets bowl eligible ...
  • Rumors I've heard, though, they aren't looking at Joseph. Is this incorrect? Would they consider MJ?

If you intend to fire Frost, but don't want to permanently hire any of the potential interim candidates, Game Theory, or whatever strategic concept you'd employ, would suggest the following:

  • Let Frost stay on and lose to OU.
  • Fire him either before or after the IU game (probable loss) and save the difference in buyout $$$.
  • His interim would then not have enough season left to right the ship and get bowl-eligible; saves you the PR problem of not appearing to give the interim guy a chance.
  • Go after whoever you want at the end of the season.

Can we reasonably, logically infer, therefore, that Trev is open to hiring MJ if we earn a bowl invite?

 

Can we also reasonably, logically infer, therefore, that there was much more than a losing record involved in the decision to terminate Frost early? There were some good reasons to wait even if he was doing poorly, and they did not.

 

And, how this applies to Hoiberg is that it seems reasonable to conclude that there's not likely to be a mid-season coaching change in hoops even if we seem headed for another 7-10 win season.

 

I think Trev was afraid Frost might beat Indiana and Rutgers thus making it difficult to fire a coach after that.  With the rest of the schedule if NU plays well they could beat probably all the others teams not named Michigan.  

 

The Joseph thing is getting interesting.  I don't think you can base his hiring off wins and losses but more so on how he handles head coaching duties and if the kids play hard all the time.  They seem to be doing that which makes it tough for Trev if he has another person in mind, or even locked up, which I think he does.

 

I said before that I think Fred would really have to tank it this year to be fired and I think the admin knows the difficulty of the basketball team's schedule and will take that into account.  The problem is we lose Sam, Bando and Walker so it is almost like starting over again next year.

 

 

Norm Peterson

Norm Peterson

Posted
  • Author
Posted
10 minutes ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

I said before that I think Fred would really have to tank it this year to be fired and I think the admin knows the difficulty of the basketball team's schedule and will take that into account.  The problem is we lose Sam, Bando and Walker so it is almost like starting over again next year.

 

Well, fortunately, we landed a stellar 2023 recruiting cla ...

Navin R. Johnson

Navin R. Johnson

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Well, fortunately, we landed a stellar 2023 recruiting cla ...

 

I think that class is okay but it might take time for them to develop so you are looking at a rebuild for another year after a year that could be average at best.

uneblinstu

uneblinstu

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

I said before that I think Fred would really have to tank it this year to be fired and I think the admin knows the difficulty of the basketball team's schedule and will take that into account.  The problem is we lose Sam, Bando and Walker so it is almost like starting over again next year.

We'll see. You're also going to have Wilcher, Kieta, Kiese, Lloyd, Dawson, Gary, Wilhelm and others have eligibility after this season. So if you see solid growth from that group over the season, the drop off may not be as sudden as many fear.

Navin R. Johnson

Navin R. Johnson

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

We'll see. You're also going to have Wilcher, Kieta, Kiese, Lloyd, Dawson, Gary, Wilhelm and others have eligibility after this season. So if you see solid growth from that group over the season, the drop off may not be as sudden as many fear.

 

That could be and if you add from the portal, who knows?  Does Keise have another year or is he done after this year?

uneblinstu

uneblinstu

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

 

That could be and if you add from the portal, who knows?  Does Keise have another year or is he done after this year?

I believe he has one more year since one of his JUCO years was the covid season. The portal will always be a part of the equation. Just the way of the college sports world right now.

Handy Johnson

Handy Johnson

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HuskerFever said:

 

Depends if Adolph Lewandowski is available or not.

All kidding aside though, unless we’re surprisingly GOOD or at least scaring .500, hasn’t the die already been cast…? 

Edited by Handy Johnson

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