2022 off-season moves: Hoiberg vs. Frost

[Norm Peterson]

Compare and contrast.

 

Go.

[cornfed24-7]

Both seem pretty much the same and we won't know jack until each season plays out.

 

The media seems to really like Frosts moves. Pretty sure we will soon be seeing the articles that proclaim we will win the West and are dark horses for the playoffs.

[49r]

[Navin R. Johnson]

Both made changes to the coaching staff.  Frost seems to have brought in the bigger names and with it bigger expectations, which means the basketball team will have the better season flying under the radar!  As in most sports though it comes down to not how good you are, but how good your competition is and the football schedule is pretty soft, especially early on while the Big 10 in basketball is always very tough as you have to play all the teams.  

 

The thing about our basketball recruits is that had it been a few years ago and we brought in this group, we would be pretty excited, but now with Hoiberg the expectations on recruiting seem to be higher and we don't see this class as anything special.  Like Hugh42 said earlier, this group may surprise us.  (paraphrasing my old college roomy!)

[Huskerpapa]

I vowed that I would carefully step away from the hype train this year.  So I am taking a wait and see/prove it approach.

That said, it looks like Frost has an upper hand.  The assistants he brought in seem to be more impactful on the surface, he has altered his own role, his offensive schemes have apparently been tweaked and he seems to have brought in a few impactful players.

But to be fair he also plays on a bigger and more visible stage.  So the shear numbers can make it seem more impactful. 

Sooooo...we shall see.  It will be an interesting year.

[Handy Johnson]

We open vs Northwestern as a 9/12 point favorite. Early prognosticators have us going 6-6 which I’d say is the WORST possible scenario. That would give us three more undeserved years of Frost. Either play for a B1G Title or move on. Offense should be better simply by eliminating 2AM, Blackshirts probably much worse. Hoiberg lost his TWO leading scorers from a 13th place team, so…

[basketballjones]

Basketball is so much harder to gauge simply because there are just not that many positions to shuffle around, and "talent" plays a more significant role in basketball than it does in football. In my opinion anyways. So, in other words, I feel it's a lot more easier to predict how well a basketball team is going to do, simply from the roster, than it is football. 

That being said. I think Frost won this, dramatically. I just wish he would have heeded the warnings (that I know he got) when he was hired, and done a lot of these moves right away. Pretty much everyone told him to not bring his entire staff, he needed some elder statesmen and big time guys - but he was too stubborn and arrogant to do it. 

But if you told me when all the firings and departures happened that we'd end up with a very experienced OC (coming off a super hot season), Mickey Joseph, Casey Thompson (who I think is going to have a great year), Chubba Purdy, Bill Busch, a new RB Coach who brought in some studs and got that room in order, and some of the transfer talent we got (Oshaun, Hill, LSU WR) - I'd have told you you are insane and there's no way. Frost hauled in some big time fish in my opinion - I just hope it's not too late, and that they're able to get everyone on the same page FAST. 

As far as Hoiberg goes - unfortunately I feel like we've missed on the only thing that I felt would truly have an impact on wins and losses next year - and that's a scoring guard like Baylor or the other dude who I'm blanking on. Feels like, for the first time in modern Nebraska basketball history, we're actually going to have TOO MANY bigs (that seem to be able to all play even!). And of course, because we're now Nebrasketball, we have no idea if we have anyone who can create or score. I don't see how Hoiberg is successful next year playing his system and his style. So hopefully they can adjust their style to the type of team we end up with, but as @Norm Peterson has suggested, I don't see that happening either. 

[Norm Peterson]

2 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Basketball is so much harder to gauge simply because there are just not that many positions to shuffle around, and "talent" plays a more significant role in basketball than it does in football. In my opinion anyways. So, in other words, I feel it's a lot more easier to predict how well a basketball team is going to do, simply from the roster, than it is football. 

That being said. I think Frost won this, dramatically. I just wish he would have heeded the warnings (that I know he got) when he was hired, and done a lot of these moves right away. Pretty much everyone told him to not bring his entire staff, he needed some elder statesmen and big time guys - but he was too stubborn and arrogant to do it. 

But if you told me when all the firings and departures happened that we'd end up with a very experienced OC (coming off a super hot season), Mickey Joseph, Casey Thompson (who I think is going to have a great year), Chubba Purdy, Bill Busch, a new RB Coach who brought in some studs and got that room in order, and some of the transfer talent we got (Oshaun, Hill, LSU WR) - I'd have told you you are insane and there's no way. Frost hauled in some big time fish in my opinion - I just hope it's not too late, and that they're able to get everyone on the same page FAST. 

As far as Hoiberg goes - unfortunately I feel like we've missed on the only thing that I felt would truly have an impact on wins and losses next year - and that's a scoring guard like Baylor or the other dude who I'm blanking on. Feels like, for the first time in modern Nebraska basketball history, we're actually going to have TOO MANY bigs (that seem to be able to all play even!). And of course, because we're now Nebrasketball, we have no idea if we have anyone who can create or score. I don't see how Hoiberg is successful next year playing his system and his style. So hopefully they can adjust their style to the type of team we end up with, but as @Norm Peterson has suggested, I don't see that happening either. 

 

I was going to type a reply to my own post, but this popped in while I was typing and I don't think I could have said it any better.

 

So, I'll just quote it.

[Norm Peterson]

One thing I'd point out, @basketballjones, is that we might not be done on the hoops side yet. Could be there's another fish getting ready to land. Yet to see how nice of a fish it is -- have to reel it in first -- but wouldn't be surprised if we have another one hooked.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Norm Peterson

[TourneyBound]

46 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

One thing I'd point out, @basketballjones, is that we're not done on the hoops side yet. There's another fish getting ready to land. Yet to see how nice of a fish it is -- have to reel it in first -- but we've got one on the hook and the rod is dipping sharply.

If its Parker its hard to get too excited because its going to be down the road before he gets here and who knows if he will ever get here...

[HuskerFever]

Both seem like they're going to stay.

[Chuck Taylor]

15 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

Both seem like they're going to stay.

Both Lat and Trey? Based on something you've heard, or because we haven't heard anything?

[uneblinstu]

7 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

Both Lat and Trey? Based on something you've heard, or because we haven't heard anything?

I read it as Frost and Hoiberg...

[cornfed24-7]

1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

One thing I'd point out, @basketballjones, is that we're not done on the hoops side yet. There's another fish getting ready to land. Yet to see how nice of a fish it is -- have to reel it in first -- but we've got one on the hook and the rod is dipping sharply.

Well the way things have gone...

[Red Don]

Just idle talk (that is unknowledgeable and uninformed), Frost Hands-Down.  He's (belatedly) made (necessary) changes in several coaching spots, upgrading each position.  Talent-wise, I think we've got our share. It takes both to win consistently, at least in football.  But still the same for Fred (i.e. it takes both to win consistently). 

 

Navin has a good point, if this were Tim Miles We'd be thrilled with the recruits; but suddenly the Big Ten seems to look to us like this monolithic monster that only a dragon-slayer coach with legendary talent has a chance of beating.  Come to think about it, seems like Miles did more with less; Fred, less with more.  But one never knows when they might capture that "magic-in-a-bottle."  (I thought we had some when we beat Colorado so soundly in the exhibition game.)

[basketballjones]

14 minutes ago, Red Don said:

(I thought we had some when we beat Colorado so soundly in the exhibition game.)

I don't want to talk about it. 

[Cazzie22]

Both Frost and Fred need to be more flexible and not remain stubborn and insist that their system is best.  Adapt to personnel.  If Frost supervises his staff and demands excellence we should see improvement.  We lost key personnel, especially on the D line, and it remains to be seen if they have been adequately replaced.  

 

Basketball doesn’t look promising.  I just don’t believe we have enough talent.  However, improved team chemistry could result in surprisingly good play.

[Art Vandalay]

10 hours ago, basketballjones said:

Basketball is so much harder to gauge simply because there are just not that many positions to shuffle around, and "talent" plays a more significant role in basketball than it does in football. In my opinion anyways. So, in other words, I feel it's a lot more easier to predict how well a basketball team is going to do, simply from the roster, than it is football. 

That being said. I think Frost won this, dramatically. I just wish he would have heeded the warnings (that I know he got) when he was hired, and done a lot of these moves right away. Pretty much everyone told him to not bring his entire staff, he needed some elder statesmen and big time guys - but he was too stubborn and arrogant to do it. 

But if you told me when all the firings and departures happened that we'd end up with a very experienced OC (coming off a super hot season), Mickey Joseph, Casey Thompson (who I think is going to have a great year), Chubba Purdy, Bill Busch, a new RB Coach who brought in some studs and got that room in order, and some of the transfer talent we got (Oshaun, Hill, LSU WR) - I'd have told you you are insane and there's no way. Frost hauled in some big time fish in my opinion - I just hope it's not too late, and that they're able to get everyone on the same page FAST. 

As far as Hoiberg goes - unfortunately I feel like we've missed on the only thing that I felt would truly have an impact on wins and losses next year - and that's a scoring guard like Baylor or the other dude who I'm blanking on. Feels like, for the first time in modern Nebraska basketball history, we're actually going to have TOO MANY bigs (that seem to be able to all play even!). And of course, because we're now Nebrasketball, we have no idea if we have anyone who can create or score. I don't see how Hoiberg is successful next year playing his system and his style. So hopefully they can adjust their style to the type of team we end up with, but as @Norm Peterson has suggested, I don't see that happening either. 

from the latest Parker interview I think we might see some scheme changes, would love to hear what those are. We are also still looking for that wing, would love the UNC kid but not sure what chance we have but we will add someone for that role IMO

[aphilso1]

11 hours ago, Art Vandalay said:

from the latest Parker interview I think we might see some scheme changes, would love to hear what those are. We are also still looking for that wing, would love the UNC kid but not sure what chance we have but we will add someone for that role IMO

 

I saw the same thing and concluded the same thing.  Curious, indeed.

[Fullbacksympathy]

Hard to say, but I’d cautiously lean Frost.    He can make all the changes he wants, and he spent the loot to do it, but something is going to have to change to make them believe they can finish a game.  If they lose the NW, the wheels will fall off.  Win it, and who knows, but that game is enormous.  
 

I think the football team gets six wins.  It’s incredible how many days of practice they have missed out on due to not making a bowl the last several years.  That’s a couple of camps worth of development.  I’m guessing Frost gets the bowl game and the extra reps help get the program back to something more Pelini esque.  
 

Hoiberg needs one more guard to transfer here.  However, we’ll have tremendous size to roll out next season and likely a more coachable team who should significantly improve on defense and rebounding.  Offense couldn’t really get any worse than it was this past season.  
 

If I had my way right now, this is my starting lineup:

 

Griesel 

Lloyd (I’m very high on this kid)

Gary

Keita 

Walker

 

We might be able to create some bully ball problems with this bunch.  At this point, I don’t even care if we are offensively challenged.  We might be able to build a defensive/rebounding  juggernaut.  A lot depends on whether or not Keita can actually space the floor like Fred claims.  If not, Gary will likely start at the 4 and we’ll have a major logjam at the 5 because I don’t think Wilhelm can play the 4 defensively.  
 

I’m neutral on the b-ball roster right now, but I am definitely curious.  If we get an experienced, scoring wing, I think Fred will make the bigger jump.  But that will be hard to quantify in terms of wins because, top to bottom, I think the conference has a way better group of basketball talent and coaching.  It’s just a tough ass league.  

[royalfan]

I don’t know about football vs basketball. I think football has done better.  As for hoops, we might be a bit better just because I think Hoiberg can generate points with good sets.  I see a transition towards playing better defense potentially happening.  We aren’t going to have a lot of guys that will be shot hunting.  He had way too much faith in his guys last year ti just play.  When we dialed it in and structured things we did great things. Ruining Wisconsin senior day type things.  

Edited May 15, 2022 by royalfan

[Nighthawk]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:41 PM, Cazzie22 said:

Both Frost and Fred need to be more flexible and not remain stubborn and insist that their system is best.  Adapt to personnel.  If Frost supervises his staff and demands excellence we should see improvement.  We lost key personnel, especially on the D line, and it remains to be seen if they have been adequately replaced.  

 

Basketball doesn’t look promising.  I just don’t believe we have enough talent.  However, improved team chemistry could result in surprisingly good play.

Might help if Frost got a great Point Guard recruited and if Fred managed to get a Quarterback with a lot more consistency.  

 

[Norm Peterson]

I figured it out: John Cook needs to spend a couple of schollies on the girlfriends of some 5-stars football/hoops prospects.

[cornfed24-7]

42 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

I figured it out: John Cook needs to spend a couple of schollies on the girlfriends of some 5-stars football/hoops prospects.

If anything the football/bball teams should be offerring a few of the boyfriends of the 5 star volleyball recruits.

Edited May 15, 2022 by cornfed24-7

[Handy Johnson]

8 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

I figured it out: John Cook needs to spend a couple of schollies on the girlfriends of some 5-stars football/hoops prospects.

Obviously trying to get the 5 Star Sons of former All-Americans doesn’t work…