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Juwan Gary - Transfer N


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11 hours ago, millerhusker said:

I think it’ll be refreshing to have a low volume, high efficiency player who’s praised for his defense and energy. Our typical recruits have been high volume, very low efficiency players who weren’t interested in defense and generally looked unmotivated when the ball wasn’t in their hands. 

I don't necessarily disagree; however, the player or players must be a threat to score otherwise our scorer's will see a plethora of double teams and gimmick defenses.  

It does sound as if this dude has some offensive skill though...but we do have to be careful as to what we wish for.

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46 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

Seems like the type of player we needed on this year's roster.  With Zo and Bryce on the court we needed more guys that would bring energy and not require the ball in their hands to make an impact.  Next year though?  IMO finding a play-making ball handler and a clutch scorer are bigger holes.  It feels like the freshmen being brought in, as well as the ones coming off of a redshirt and/or injury season, are more likely to be athletic role players next year rather than go-to scorers.  I think Lloyd can be that guy eventually but probably not in Year 1.  Just not sure where the points are going to come from.

 

Agreed.  Just trying to understand the logic behind this recruit.  We are already bringing in two 6'6" athletic recruits in Dawson and Lloyd.  Do we really need another one?  Especially one that can't shoot (he is career 20% from 3 and a poor free throw shooter).  Granted, I have not seen any film on him, but it just seems we have other more urgent needs for next year's roster, including a high level scorer and a legit stretch PF.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

 

Agreed.  Just trying to understand the logic behind this recruit.  We are already bringing in two 6'6" athletic recruits in Dawson and Lloyd.  Do we really need another one?  Especially one that can't shoot (he is career 20% from 3 and a poor free throw shooter).  Granted, I have not seen any film on him, but it just seems we have other more urgent needs for next year's roster, including a high level scorer and a legit stretch PF.

 

 

Just because their heights are the same doesn't mean their games/roles are as well.

 

Lloyd is more of a 2.  Dawson a 3 and Gray a 4.

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Just now, The Polish Rifle said:

Assuming freshman would play any meaningful minutes would be a huge mistake. 

Assuming they play meaningful minutes isn't a mistake.  Freshmen play.

Completely relying on them and not bringing in help elsewhere in a do or die year would be a huge mistake

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1 minute ago, nustudent said:

Assuming they play meaningful minutes isn't a mistake.  Freshmen play.

Completely relying on them and not bringing in help elsewhere in a do or die year would be a huge mistake

I think we're saying the same thing. Not to say Dawson and Lloyd won't play, just saying counting on them to play major minutes in the B1G as freshman and not going after a guy with major minutes in a P5 league is a huge mistake. 

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2 minutes ago, nustudent said:

Just because their heights are the same doesn't mean their games/roles are as well.

 

Lloyd is more of a 2.  Dawson a 3 and Gray a 4.

Well, he's listed at 6'5" or 6'6" depending on the source.  He was listed as a SF on his recruiting profiles.  He averaged 3.4 rebounds per game last year.   We are already undersized at the center position with Walker at about 6'7".  We don't need to compound it by playing a 6'5" PF.   If he is playing PF, it is most likely because he is not skilled enough to play SF or guard not because of his size. 

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16 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

Well, he's listed at 6'5" or 6'6" depending on the source.  He was listed as a SF on his recruiting profiles.  He averaged 3.4 rebounds per game last year.   We are already undersized at the center position with Walker at about 6'7".  We don't need to compound it by playing a 6'5" PF.   If he is playing PF, it is most likely because he is not skilled enough to play SF or guard not because of his size. 

Some of my friends have been told that size doesn't matter.  I guess it is being able to do the little things that matter most.

Edited by Huskerpapa
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15 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

Well, he's listed at 6'5" or 6'6" depending on the source.  He was listed as a SF on his recruiting profiles.  He averaged 3.4 rebounds per game last year.   We are already undersized at the center position with Walker at about 6'7".  We don't need to compound it by playing a 6'5" PF.   If he is playing PF, it is most likely because he is not skilled enough to play SF or guard not because of his size. 

 

That's part of my hesitancy, as well.  Unless we are are going to completely rethink Hoiberg's system, I'm not sure what role a 6'6" guy will have who doesn't have range, isn't a primary ball handler, and doesn't snag a lot of rebounds.  Even when we rolled Banton out as an oversized PG with limited range, he was still a plus rebounder.

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I'm a bit hesitant on him, but his energy and ability to fill in off scorers is something this team has needed for years. Athleticism pops off also when watching. My concern is how much offensive skill does he have right now. 

 

Getting a scorer through the portal is still necessary even if they get him. That much is definitely true. 

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1 hour ago, NUdiehard said:

Well, he's listed at 6'5" or 6'6" depending on the source.  He was listed as a SF on his recruiting profiles.  He averaged 3.4 rebounds per game last year.   We are already undersized at the center position with Walker at about 6'7".  We don't need to compound it by playing a 6'5" PF.   If he is playing PF, it is most likely because he is not skilled enough to play SF or guard not because of his size. 


When he got big minutes he produced pts and rebounds.  I’m not saying he is the missing piece however he can hold his own on the boards and would allow us a better small ball 4 rebounding/def than CJ who is more of a wing. Just gives us physicality which we desperately need and flexibility on the types of line ups we can put on the floor.

 

i would welcome the addition as long as we get a wing scorer as well since that is the biggest need. That would give us a more well rounded roster. I also think they see Lloyd as a back up PG this year. We should have much better size and strength next year if nothing else

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Gary is an above average rebounder and defender. Don't let the per game averages fool you because he had plenty of games where he only played a few minutes.

He's already what we hope Denim Dawson will be, especially in the GATA department. 

 

The thing people miss when they see Gary's career 20% 3pt numbers is that he's a career 61.3% 2pt shooter. His eFG% clocks in at 54.5%.  He's a slasher who is tall enough and athletic enough to finish at the rim who shoots enough from 3 to keep defenders honest.  That 54.5% eFG number is better than the best seasons from the guys he's replacing in Trey McGowens or Lat Mayen.

 

The big concern with him is he's injury prone. Not sure he can make it through an entire season without missing time.

Fit I guess is a concern but really there are so many question marks with this roster.  To me it makes sense to grab this guy if McGowens and Mayen will both be gone and is a no brainer if we'll lose any other scholarship players.

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3 hours ago, NUdiehard said:

Well, he's listed at 6'5" or 6'6" depending on the source.  He was listed as a SF on his recruiting profiles.  He averaged 3.4 rebounds per game last year.   We are already undersized at the center position with Walker at about 6'7".  We don't need to compound it by playing a 6'5" PF.   If he is playing PF, it is most likely because he is not skilled enough to play SF or guard not because of his size. 

Walker isn't 6'7".   And if height was everything.....Mayan at 6'9" and Andre at 6'11" would've been a great frontcourt.   Our best frontcourt since we've been in the Big 10 came with two 6'8" guys in it.

 

Gray is a stretch 4 and would be just fine doing it here.

 

We don't need him to play 40mpg.  We need him to compliment Wilhelm at the 4.  The guy has produced on some teams that were pretty good.   Would we rather have Lat back?  C'mon.

Edited by nustudent
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Based on just reading this thread and doing absolutely zero stats browsing or film watching, I am getting some David Rivers vibes. And every tournament team Nebraska has had this century, has had a David Rivers-type player on the roster. 

 

I'm all in on Juwan Gary and also just talked myself into believing Nebraska's making the tournament this year.

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Robin Washut was on the Husker Online podcast and said Lat is going to Australia pro ball.  (Not an official announcement)  Sounded pretty confident.   Also said (like others)  that the longer it goes without an announcement from Trey the more likely he's gone.  Said Gary would help fill in at the 4 spot if he came to Nebraska.  

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Reminds me of Jason Dourisseau with more weight.  Definitely an energy guy.  I don't mind the 6'6" frame as he is a general pain to guard and go against due to his energy and slashing ability.  He also weighs 220 so he could probably barely hold up at the 4.  He's heavier than Lat and infinitely better at scoring at the rim/handling the ball.  He's really a wing.  Looks like an upgrade to me.

 

Defensively, he gives us a nice option for switching on the perimeter.  Between Griesel, Lloyd, and potentially Gary, that's a ton of length and strength on the perimeter.  I'd love to see us bully other teams for once with size.  Roll something out that at least gives us a decided advantage somewhere.

 

Griesel 6'6" 220

Lloyd 6'6" 190

Gary 6'6" 220

Keita 6'11" 235

Walker 6'9" 240

 

^^^ this group would give you barely enough shooting and a completely different planet of improvement on the defensive end and the glass.  

 

Lots of options at the 4 with Wilcher as well, but Gary would give us a 4 body that can actually guard 3s, which Wilcher cannot from what I've seen.  I think Wilhelm is a 5 personally just due to lack of lateral quickness.  Put some weight on him and turn him into a Walton type with his IQ and skill.  He should weigh close to 250 next season.

 

I'm an eternal optimist to a fault, but the above looks a lot more B1G to me than anything we've ever rolled out, and I don't see Quad 3-4 teams being able to handle that physicality.  

 

 

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15 hours ago, Shawn Eichorst's Toupee said:

Based on just reading this thread and doing absolutely zero stats browsing or film watching, I am getting some David Rivers vibes. And every tournament team Nebraska has had this century, has had a David Rivers-type player on the roster. 

 

I'm all in on Juwan Gary and also just talked myself into believing Nebraska's making the tournament this year.

A stronger David Rivers is a good Nebraska comp. But also, teams like Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan State, etc have three or four Gary-type players every year. And they all play the 4. Most fans still seem to think Big Ten teams roll out players the size of Karl Malone at power forward along with a traditional center. But that hasn't been true in about 20 years. Painter tried starting a traditional power forward type (Trevion Williams, who was probably their second best player) at the 4 with Edey at the 5 this year. But it didn't work, so Williams got moved to the bench. Purdue's starting 4 was Mason Gillis, who is the same exact size at Gary. He averaged 6.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 apg on 50% shooting. Does all the little things and is a versatile defender. He wasn't a shooter when he got to Purdue, but is now because that's what Painter does. Other than that, they are very similar players. 

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1 hour ago, millerhusker said:

A stronger David Rivers is a good Nebraska comp. But also, teams like Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan State, etc have three or four Gary-type players every year. And they all play the 4. Most fans still seem to think Big Ten teams roll out players the size of Karl Malone at power forward along with a traditional center. But that hasn't been true in about 20 years. Painter tried starting a traditional power forward type (Trevion Williams, who was probably their second best player) at the 4 with Edey at the 5 this year. But it didn't work, so Williams got moved to the bench. Purdue's starting 4 was Mason Gillis, who is the same exact size at Gary. He averaged 6.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.1 apg on 50% shooting. Does all the little things and is a versatile defender. He wasn't a shooter when he got to Purdue, but is now because that's what Painter does. Other than that, they are very similar players. 

Did someone say Gary was too small to guard the 4?  I feel like you're arguing against a strawman.  The cause for pessimism is about fit.  I'll quote myself for reference:

 

"Unless we are are going to completely rethink Hoiberg's system, I'm not sure what role a 6'6" guy will have who doesn't have range, isn't a primary ball handler, and doesn't snag a lot of rebounds."

 

Hoiberg doesn't run a typical B1G system, he runs four out.  That leaves room for one non-shooter (Walker/Keita) on the floor, two max (whoever plays PG).  At 6'6" Gary absolutely would be severely undersized guarding the opposing team's center, so one would assume that he gets minutes as basically a SF or PF here (yes, I know we run position-less basketball at the 2-4 technically, but I still feel the need to call those spots on the floor something).  So again, in Hoiberg's system, I am concerned about what role he would have.  If he isn't a primary ball handler (1), nor shooter (2-4), nor rebounding machine/rim protector (5), then what is he in this system? 

 

Ironically enough, I think he is a great fit at the schools you mention.  He is indeed the sort of player that when suited up for tOSU or Purdue gave us fits at the 4.  He's too quick for Lat to guard, and too strong for Wilcher (possibly too quick for him, too).  I like his game a lot, but just am struggling to see how our offense works with him and Walker or Keita on the floor together.

 

EDIT: additional concern is with roster management and filling the few open spots we have left.  We have zero proven primary ball handlers and zero proven alpha dogs who will create their own shot and go and get you buckets when you need it. Lloyd seems like the best chance at filling one (or maybe even both) roles, but he's a true frosh.  Just seems like we have higher priority holes to fill, in addition to the concerns with fit.

Edited by aphilso1
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I voiced similar concerns about Shamiel when we signed him despite most fans being very high on him.  Again, just not seeing the fit. But given how little success Fred's had since moving here, perhaps the coach is looking to modify his system and is recruiting to a new type of player.  One can hope, at least.  Gary does seem like the type of player that would be great to have if used correctly.  Standing around 3' outside the 3pt line is not how to best use him.

Edited by aphilso1
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2 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

additional concern is with roster management and filling the few open spots we have left.  We have zero proven primary ball handlers and zero proven alpha dogs who will create their own shot and go and get you buckets when you need it.   Just seems like we have higher priority holes to fill, in addition to the concerns with fit.

Sounds like someone Matt A targeted before he left. 😀

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2 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

Did someone say Gary was too small to guard the 4?  I feel like you're arguing against a strawman.  The cause for pessimism is about fit.  I'll quote myself for reference:

 

"Unless we are are going to completely rethink Hoiberg's system, I'm not sure what role a 6'6" guy will have who doesn't have range, isn't a primary ball handler, and doesn't snag a lot of rebounds."

 

Hoiberg doesn't run a typical B1G system, he runs four out.  That leaves room for one non-shooter (Walker/Keita) on the floor, two max (whoever plays PG).  At 6'6" Gary absolutely would be severely undersized guarding the opposing team's center, so one would assume that he gets minutes as basically a SF or PF here (yes, I know we run position-less basketball at the 2-4 technically, but I still feel the need to call those spots on the floor something).  So again, in Hoiberg's system, I am concerned about what role he would have.  If he isn't a primary ball handler (1), nor shooter (2-4), nor rebounding machine/rim protector (5), then what is he in this system? 

 

Ironically enough, I think he is a great fit at the schools you mention.  He is indeed the sort of player that when suited up for tOSU or Purdue gave us fits at the 4.  He's too quick for Lat to guard, and too strong for Wilcher (possibly too quick for him, too).  I like his game a lot, but just am struggling to see how our offense works with him and Walker or Keita on the floor together.

 

EDIT: additional concern is with roster management and filling the few open spots we have left.  We have zero proven primary ball handlers and zero proven alpha dogs who will create their own shot and go and get you buckets when you need it. Lloyd seems like the best chance at filling one (or maybe even both) roles, but he's a true frosh.  Just seems like we have higher priority holes to fill, in addition to the concerns with fit.

I wasn't really meaning to argue. Just rambling. I agree with you for the most part. But I'm fine with Hoiberg trying to fit Gary in as a scrappy 4.  He's very similar in style to Dustin Hogue and Melvin Ejim. Both guys were 6'6" 220 pounds, strong and athletic. Neither were good shooters when they got to Iowa State. Spacing would take a hit with Walker and Keita at the 5, but hopefully Gary can become a serviceable shooter. On paper, Lat and Kavas should've been the 4's that Hoiberg wanted, but that type of player just hasn't panned out. They're longer, but not nearly as strong or athletic and didn't live up to their expectations as shooters. Aside from CJ, all of our shooters have had non-shooter's numbers while at Nebraska. Fact is, if there are 6'9" athletes who are legitimately skilled offensively in the portal, they're probably not coming to Nebraska. 

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