Passion vs Talent

[AuroranHusker]

 

Thought was worth a thread to discuss the virtues of "Passion" vs "Talent": I personally believe talent is primary, but passion is also necessary. St. Peter's is a poster child for a will to win. Nebrasketball could learn from the Peacocks in that regard, and the last two weeks of the 2021-22 season proved that it was possible all along.

 

 

[Chuck Taylor]

Not to derail the discussion before it began, but Saint Peters lost to Canisius, St. Francis NY, Siena, Stony Brook, Rider and Iona this year. They beat an overrated bunch of mercenaries from Kentucky and then won a close game over a 7 seed. Not sure what conclusions you can draw from their season.

[hhcmatt]

It's best to have both.

[AuroranHusker]

19 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

Not to derail the discussion before it began, but Saint Peters lost to Canisius, St. Francis NY, Siena, Stony Brook, Rider and Iona this year. They beat an overrated bunch of mercenaries from Kentucky and then won a close game over a 7 seed. Not sure what conclusions you can draw from their season.

 

I don't take anything away from their season, in particular, other than concepts to consider. How does one harness the power of passion combined with the extreme talent aspect?

 

 

[uneblinstu]

26 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

It's best to have both.

For sure. Doc's teams generally played with "passion". They lacked for "talent". But that passion they played with most nights kept them in a few games a year they shouldn't, teams more talented than them, but when they went up vs a team that had the talent and the passion, they'd lose by 40. Kansas was master at this. They rarely took nights off. 

[AuroranHusker]

7 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

For sure. Doc's teams generally played with "passion". They lacked for "talent". But that passion they played with most nights kept them in a few games a year they shouldn't, teams more talented than them, but when they went up vs a team that had the talent and the passion, they'd lose by 40. Kansas was master at this. They rarely took nights off. 

 

And, that's the frustrating part of the Freddy/Doc combo at Nebraska. I had such high hopes that they'd be able to combine the talent with the passion mindset to win a lot of ballgames. So, why exactly hadn't it worked here (thus far), aye there's the rub. . .

[hhcmatt]

19 minutes ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

I don't take anything away from their season, in particular, other than concepts to consider. How does one harness the power of passion combined with the extreme talent aspect?

 

Some of it is a coaching staff that demands passion.  Part of why Iowa St went from 2 wins to the Sweet 16 is at the beginning of the year T.J. Otzelberger got rid of all the guys who weren't committed to playing hard which included some pretty talented guys.  Fred isn't that guy so that's why it's important that everyone else he brings in from the staff to the players are.

 

Also:

Note to self: Don't recruit anyone from the Iowa St transfer portal

[uneblinstu]

16 minutes ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

And, that's the frustrating part of the Freddy/Doc combo at Nebraska. I had such high hopes that they'd be able to combine the talent with the passion mindset to win a lot of ballgames. So, why exactly hadn't it worked here (thus far), aye there's the rub. . .

My hope that is one of the changes and they can bring in some coaches/players that can help make that culture changes. It needs to be a day-to-day thing, not just on gameday. That fizzles out quickly once the game starts. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by uneblinstu

[AuroranHusker]

6 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Some of it is a coaching staff that demands passion.  Part of why Iowa St went from 2 wins to the Sweet 16 is at the beginning of the year T.J. Otzelberger got rid of all the guys who weren't committed to playing hard which included some pretty talented guys.  Fred isn't that guy so that's why it's important that everyone else he brings in from the staff to the players are.

 

Note to self: Don't recruit anyone from the Iowa St transfer portal

 

 

And, I also think part of the formula would have to fall on the players themselves. They must contain an inner will to compete hard, and at the highest level. These dudes have to will one's self to become what one wants to be. Right? It can't all land in the lap of the coaching staff. But, I totally agree that the coaches demand what they expect, in other words: "You reap what you sow."

 

Yet, despite whatever coaching efforts--good, bad, indifferent--I happen to think NU has tried to help players in that regard, it just hasn't worked out. Maybe next year they can piece it all together with Sam Griesel at the Point. Perhaps his passion for NEBRASKA will carry his teammates to a more finished product early on, and then they can build off of that right outta the gate, much in the same light as ISU has done under TJ this season, getting out to a 12-0 start only to be able to withstand the Febr. speedbumps in the process, and finally find Sweet 16 success. One can hope, anyway, for NU to get a big NCAA dub. It has to happen, eventually...

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by AuroranHusker

[uneblinstu]

1 minute ago, AuroranHusker said:

And, I also think part of the formula would have to fall on the players themselves. They must contain an inner will to compete hard, and at the highest level. These dudes have to will one's self to become what one wants to be. Right? It can't all land in the lap of the coaching staff. But, I totally agree that the coach's demand what they expect, in other words: You reap what you sow. Yet despite whatever coaching efforts--good, bad, indifferent--I happen to think NU has tried to help players in that regard, it just hasn't worked out. Maybe next year they can piece it all together with Sam Griesel at the Point. Perhaps his passion for NEBRASKA will carry his teammates to a more finished product early on, and then they can build off of that night, much in the same light as ISU has done under TJ this season. One can hope, anyway.

And when you heard about Dawson coming in and diving for more loose balls than the rest of the team had combined, and getting Briedenbach back, who was very willing to get on the floor, I'm hopeful we'll see that change start to happen next season. It needs to be an identity for this team to win. 

[AuroranHusker]

Just now, uneblinstu said:

And when you heard about Dawson coming in and diving for more loose balls than the rest of the team had combined, and getting Briedenbach back, who was very willing to get on the floor, I'm hopeful we'll see that change start to happen next season. It needs to be an identity for this team to win. 

 

It's a mindset, no question.

 

 

[Huskerpapa]

Yeah, this thread goes a long way to define the frustration of the year.  We had talent, but to be blunt, we played and coached, with what appeared to be, "an I don't give a sh** attitude. 

I watch this years tournament versus our teams approach to games and the teams lack of effort/passion and my frustration is further magnified. 

We can only hope for Iowa State like improvement.  Our collective voices were apparently heard and with the changes being made...we shall see.

[AuroranHusker]

3 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

Yeah, this thread goes a long way to define the frustration of the year.  We had talent, but to be blunt, we played and coached, with what appeared to be, "an I don't give a sh** attitude. 

I watch this years tournament versus our teams approach to games and the teams lack of effort/passion and my frustration is further magnified. 

We can only hope for Iowa State like improvement.  Our collective voices were apparently heard and with the changes being made...we shall see.

 

I am very hopeful. I saw the same things, that's why that post on St. Peter's struck a nerve. Kind of insane that it took 3 years for this shitshow to be rectified.

 

 

[HuskerFever]

Passion and Talent are important factors. I'd also argue that Fit was an element missing this past season.

 

If we can recruit to positional needs and find a group of players who gel together, those are the teams that people tend to remember in mid-March.

[basketballjones]

24 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

And when you heard about Dawson coming in and diving for more loose balls than the rest of the team had combined, and getting Briedenbach back, who was very willing to get on the floor, I'm hopeful we'll see that change start to happen next season. It needs to be an identity for this team to win. 

Let's be honest here, I'm the biggest fan of Wilhelm's potential on the board as proven by my amazing profile pic.... But I must admit, he did not show me much from a consistent effort, attention to detail, dirty work, doing the little things perspective that I hoped to see. Looked to me like a lot of fake effort plays on ball screens (fouling while hard hedging) and wanting to dribble through his legs and shoot step back 3's. He's a guy who's role needs to be more defined and needs to be held more accountable from a coaching perspective. 

[Huskerpapa]

Just now, basketballjones said:

Let's be honest here, I'm the biggest fan of Wilhelm's potential on the board as proven by my amazing profile pic.... But I must admit, he did not show me much from a consistent effort, attention to detail, dirty work, doing the little things perspective that I hoped to see. Looked to me like a lot of fake effort plays on ball screens (fouling while hard hedging) and wanting to dribble through his legs and shoot step back 3's. He's a guy who's role needs to be more defined and needs to be held more accountable from a coaching perspective. 

Yup, I agree.

That said, remember he came to us still recovering from a high school injury, so his initial indoctrination into college ball and our program was slowed.  He was then injured as he was starting to catch on.  Look at the progress Bryce made in the last third of the season...perhaps Breidenbach would have progressed as well.

My concern now is his durability and whether his knees can hold up to major conference pounding....

[basketballjones]

31 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

Yup, I agree.

That said, remember he came to us still recovering from a high school injury, so his initial indoctrination into college ball and our program was slowed.  He was then injured as he was starting to catch on.  Look at the progress Bryce made in the last third of the season...perhaps Breidenbach would have progressed as well.

My concern now is his durability and whether his knees can hold up to major conference pounding....

I feel like you should be able to see immediately whether a kid is willing and able to do the dirty work, small, consistent effort stuff. Progression should come in the form of skills and shot making. 

[uneblinstu]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

Let's be honest here, I'm the biggest fan of Wilhelm's potential on the board as proven by my amazing profile pic.... But I must admit, he did not show me much from a consistent effort, attention to detail, dirty work, doing the little things perspective that I hoped to see. Looked to me like a lot of fake effort plays on ball screens (fouling while hard hedging) and wanting to dribble through his legs and shoot step back 3's. He's a guy who's role needs to be more defined and needs to be held more accountable from a coaching perspective. 

He definitely didn't score like I was hoping he would, but he was way more willing to do the dirty work than some of the other guys, diving for loose balls, getting in the mix on the boards more than others, that sort of thing. He also seems to struggle adjusting to the college game a bit, but that's pretty normal for a true freshman. Depending on how much the injuries affect him long term, the ceiling's still really high for him, I think.  There's a place for him to be a piece of a long term core that can maybe build something over the next few years.

[millerhusker]

3 hours ago, Chuck Taylor said:

Not to derail the discussion before it began, but Saint Peters lost to Canisius, St. Francis NY, Siena, Stony Brook, Rider and Iona this year. They beat an overrated bunch of mercenaries from Kentucky and then won a close game over a 7 seed. Not sure what conclusions you can draw from their season.

Not that it matters but Kentucky wasn't overrated this year (although they usually are). I watched them beat Tennessee and UNC by 30 points apiece and manhandle KU in Allen Fieldhouse. Very different from past Calipari teams. They were old, physical and out-toughed those three teams mentioned. Tshiebwe is an old school enforcer. They played poorly against Saint Peter's. Otherwise I agree with you. 

[cipsucks]

7 hours ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

And, that's the frustrating part of the Freddy/Doc combo at Nebraska. I had such high hopes that they'd be able to combine the talent with the passion mindset to win a lot of ballgames. So, why exactly hadn't it worked here (thus far), aye there's the rub. . .

Because somewhere out there, a 110 year old goat (not you, jimmy)  has eluded its duty to be sacrificed.  Find and kill the damn goat and we'll be good!

[AuroranHusker]

2 hours ago, cipsucks said:

Because somewhere out there, a 110 year old goat (not you, jimmy)  has eluded its duty to be sacrificed.  Find and kill the damn goat and we'll be good!

 

Maybe @jimmykc is the key to breakin' the curse. . . 

 

 

[AuroranHusker]

6 hours ago, millerhusker said:

Not that it matters but Kentucky wasn't overrated this year (although they usually are). I watched them beat Tennessee and UNC by 30 points apiece and manhandle KU in Allen Fieldhouse. Very different from past Calipari teams. They were old, physical and out-toughed those three teams mentioned. Tshiebwe is an old school enforcer. They played poorly against Saint Peter's. Otherwise I agree with you. 

 

None of that is really the point of the discussion, but I appreciate the clarification. Basketball is a streaky sport. One day you're a king, next day a goat. (not G.O.A.T. )

 

 

[Ron Mexico]

9 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

My hope that is one of the changes and they can bring in some coaches/players that can help make that culture changes. It needs to be a day-to-day thing, not just on gameday. That fizzles out quickly once the game starts. 

I'm going to resurrect part of a post I made a while ago about this:

Everyone is trying to solve our problems with players when in reality the problem is and has always been the coaching. Recruitniks understand recruiting because it is easier to understand than what it takes to be competitive and win. Winning for next season happens during the off season. It happens in the gym and weight room when no one is watching. It takes discipline, accountability, and attention to detail. 

 

[AuroranHusker]

5 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

I'm going to resurrect part of a post I made a while ago about this:

Everyone is trying to solve our problems with players when in reality the problem is and has always been the coaching. Recruitniks understand recruiting because it is easier to understand than what it takes to be competitive and win. Winning for next season happens during the off season. It happens in the gym and weight room when no one is watching. It takes discipline, accountability, and attention to detail. 

 

 

 

100% -- the work unseen by outsiders is the key to success on the court during wintertime. Nebraska needs to upgrade coaching significantly, and must make sure to have the right dudes in the room, and even at that, that's only to give NU a fighting chance as every other Big Ten program appears to have a 'leg up' on the Huskers so it's an uphill climb to achieve in the B1G for a middling program. Northwestern got their elusive NCAA victory (on their 1st try, ugghhh) yet have not even notched a post-season berth of any sort since then. It's tough sledding!

 

 

 

 

[huskerbill85]

St Peters wouldn't be in this position with the talent they have if they were in the big 10. You have to have both but talent goes along way in the big boy leagues.