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On 3/11/2022 at 7:33 AM, nustudent said:

Washut put out his predictions on who stays/goes this morning.

 

Bryce:  Gone

Lakes:  Could apply for a medical redshirt but gone regardless

Edwards:  Gone

Tominaga:  Gone

Lat & Trey:  Both likely gone, but wouldn't rule either 100% out

 

Andre, Wilcher, Walker, McPherson, Oleg, Dawson:  Back

 

 

if this is accurate and you factor in the greisel and Lloyd updates then we have:

 

pg-sam griesel/mcpherson

sg-dawson/lawrence

sf-wilcher

pf/c-andre/keita/walker/breidenbach/oleg

 

fred has some work to do...

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11 hours ago, FredsSlacks said:

if this is accurate and you factor in the greisel and Lloyd updates then we have:

 

pg-sam griesel/mcpherson

sg-dawson/lawrence

sf-wilcher

pf/c-andre/keita/walker/breidenbach/oleg

 

fred has some work to do...

When you put it this way it’s pretty clear no way all those bigs return unless we were committed to playing some kind of two post offense. 

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12 hours ago, FredsSlacks said:

if this is accurate and you factor in the greisel and Lloyd updates then we have:

 

pg-sam griesel/mcpherson

sg-dawson/lawrence

sf-wilcher

pf/c-andre/keita/walker/breidenbach/oleg

 

fred has some work to do...

Personally, I'd rather watch this group scrap and fight than watch the previous three rosters' group of players flex and shoot arrows into the crowd and/or whine at the refs as opposed to getting back on defense during 20+ point deficits. 

I still hope Lloyd comes here. He's really talented. But he's also the one guy in this recruiting class that I was afraid would unfortunately fit in to our current culture, based on some games of his I've watched. 

 

There have been a total of 5 players in the last three years that I thought had the mental maturity and toughness that players on consistently winning teams have. Walker and CJ are two of them (Thor, Cheatham and Kobe the others). Of course, they were coached by Travis Steele and Rick Barnes before coming to Nebraska (hoping our new staff members are guys who just instill grit into players).   It seems like Dawson and McPherson are more like Walker and CJ than their other teammates. Lawrence appears to have the quiet confidence that CJ has. Griesel is tough as nails, physically and mentally.

Give me these types over more talented soft players with individual agendas any day. 

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On 3/11/2022 at 7:33 AM, nustudent said:

Washut put out his predictions on who stays/goes this morning.

 

Bryce:  Gone

Lakes:  Could apply for a medical redshirt but gone regardless

Edwards:  Gone

Tominaga:  Gone

Lat & Trey:  Both likely gone, but wouldn't rule either 100% out

 

Andre, Wilcher, Walker, McPherson, Oleg, Dawson:  Back

 

 

I could live with this it works out that way.  But no mention of Breidenbach.

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52 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

Personally, I'd rather watch this group scrap and fight than watch the previous three rosters' group of players flex and shoot arrows into the crowd and/or whine at the refs as opposed to getting back on defense during 20+ point deficits. 

I still hope Lloyd comes here. He's really talented. But he's also the one guy in this recruiting class that I was afraid would unfortunately fit in to our current culture, based on some games of his I've watched. 

 

There have been a total of 5 players in the last three years that I thought had the mental maturity and toughness that players on consistently winning teams have. Walker and CJ are two of them (Thor, Cheatham and Kobe the others). Of course, they were coached by Travis Steele and Rick Barnes before coming to Nebraska (hoping our new staff members are guys who just instill grit into players).   It seems like Dawson and McPherson are more like Walker and CJ than their other teammates. Lawrence appears to have the quiet confidence that CJ has. Griesel is tough as nails, physically and mentally.

Give me these types over more talented soft players with individual agendas any day. 

What is really cool, is when you have both talent and grit...watch basketball this weekend along with next two...you will see it 😉

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1 hour ago, millerhusker said:

Personally, I'd rather watch this group scrap and fight than watch the previous three rosters' group of players flex and shoot arrows into the crowd and/or whine at the refs as opposed to getting back on defense during 20+ point deficits. 

I still hope Lloyd comes here. He's really talented. But he's also the one guy in this recruiting class that I was afraid would unfortunately fit in to our current culture, based on some games of his I've watched. 

 

There have been a total of 5 players in the last three years that I thought had the mental maturity and toughness that players on consistently winning teams have. Walker and CJ are two of them (Thor, Cheatham and Kobe the others). Of course, they were coached by Travis Steele and Rick Barnes before coming to Nebraska (hoping our new staff members are guys who just instill grit into players).   It seems like Dawson and McPherson are more like Walker and CJ than their other teammates. Lawrence appears to have the quiet confidence that CJ has. Griesel is tough as nails, physically and mentally.

Give me these types over more talented soft players with individual agendas any day. 

The biggest thing that I see with that group is that, at least on the surface, your supporting cast is much strong and seemingly much more able and willing to do the little things.

 

Each of Hoiberg's 3 years, we've had 2-3 pretty good players.   But the drop off from those top 2-3 to the rest of the group is stark.   Alongside those 2-3, we're trotting out 2-3 guys that aren't D1 players and 2-3 that should  be low D1 players.  

 

That goes without saying we've had no size or depth on the interior which impacts just about everything, especially in the Big 10.   

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45 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

What is really cool, is when you have both talent and grit...watch basketball this weekend along with next two...you will see it 😉

For sure. But you really don’t need talented future pros to win more games than you lose in college basketball. Watch TCU play tomorrow. Most of their players can’t dribble the ball three times without bouncing it off their foot. As a team they make 5 threes per game. Their best offensive player shoots 38% from the field and 30% from the arc. They have a 6’11” kid, but they don’t play anyone else taller than 6’7”. But they’re damn gritty, unselfish, play solid defense and give great effort for 40 minutes. 

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31 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

For sure. But you really don’t need talented future pros to win more games than you lose in college basketball. Watch TCU play tomorrow. Most of their players can’t dribble the ball three times without bouncing it off their foot. As a team they make 5 threes per game. Their best offensive player shoots 38% from the field and 30% from the arc. They have a 6’11” kid, but they don’t play anyone else taller than 6’7”. But they’re damn gritty, unselfish, play solid defense and give great effort for 40 minutes. 

 

 

Doc's Mighty Mites come to mind. . . 

 

 

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4 hours ago, millerhusker said:

Personally, I'd rather watch this group scrap and fight than watch the previous three rosters' group of players flex and shoot arrows into the crowd and/or whine at the refs as opposed to getting back on defense during 20+ point deficits. 

I still hope Lloyd comes here. He's really talented. But he's also the one guy in this recruiting class that I was afraid would unfortunately fit in to our current culture, based on some games of his I've watched. 

 

There have been a total of 5 players in the last three years that I thought had the mental maturity and toughness that players on consistently winning teams have. Walker and CJ are two of them (Thor, Cheatham and Kobe the others). Of course, they were coached by Travis Steele and Rick Barnes before coming to Nebraska (hoping our new staff members are guys who just instill grit into players).   It seems like Dawson and McPherson are more like Walker and CJ than their other teammates. Lawrence appears to have the quiet confidence that CJ has. Griesel is tough as nails, physically and mentally.

Give me these types over more talented soft players with individual agendas any day. 


This straw man notion that we must choose between talented but soft players vs untalented but mentally strong players is getting out of hand. Please explain how any coach is going to consistently win in the B1G with bottom level talent. Coach Izzo recruits very talented players, are NU’s untalented but “mentally strong” players going to consistently beat the Spartans?  Does Izzo not get his talented players to play hard and execute the fundamentals?  The B1G is full of excellent coaches who recruit talent and then coach those talented players to execute and play hard. If most/all teams execute and play good hard team ball, who wins the majority of their games?  The team with more talent, obviously. 
 

Doc Sadler coached at NU for 6 years. He had mentally strong players who played their but off every minute on the floor. . . And he never went to the NCAA tourney and in his 4th season went 2-14 in Big 12 and 4-12 in his 6th season.  This is not a knock on Doc or his coaching. Doc’s issue was always lack of talent. And the B1G is a more talented and better coached league than the Big 12 was when Doc coached. If a team doesn’t have sufficient talent it doesn’t have a chance to win consistently in this league. 

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7 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:


This straw man notion that we must choose between talented but soft players vs untalented but mentally strong players is getting out of hand. Please explain how any coach is going to consistently win in the B1G with bottom level talent. Coach Izzo recruits very talented players, are NU’s untalented but “mentally strong” players going to consistently beat the Spartans?  Does Izzo not get his talented players to play hard and execute the fundamentals?  The B1G is full of excellent coaches who recruit talent and then coach those talented players to execute and play hard. If most/all teams execute and play good hard team ball, who wins the majority of their games?  The team with more talent, obviously. 
 

Doc Sadler coached at NU for 6 years. He had mentally strong players who played their but off every minute on the floor. . . And he never went to the NCAA tourney and in his 4th season went 2-14 in Big 12 and 4-12 in his 6th season.  This is not a knock on Doc or his coaching. Doc’s issue was always lack of talent. And the B1G is a more talented and better coached league than the Big 12 was when Doc coached. If a team doesn’t have sufficient talent it doesn’t have a chance to win consistently in this league. 

The point isn't that you have to choose between the two. Especially with Hoiberg as your head coach. Talented kids want to play for him. But our lead recruiter (and Hoiberg) have not valued certain intangibles that coaches like Izzo absolutely do value. But the standard or expectation at Nebraska should not be whether or not we can "consistently beat the Spartans". They will always be able to take their pick of 4 and 5 star players. You can compete for tourney bids every year with culture, cohesiveness and toughness. Wisconsin often has recruiting classes that rank near the bottom of the league, yet they're competitive every year. 

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42 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

The point isn't that you have to choose between the two. Especially with Hoiberg as your head coach. Talented kids want to play for him. But our lead recruiter (and Hoiberg) have not valued certain intangibles that coaches like Izzo absolutely do value. But the standard or expectation at Nebraska should not be whether or not we can "consistently beat the Spartans". They will always be able to take their pick of 4 and 5 star players. You can compete for tourney bids every year with culture, cohesiveness and toughness. Wisconsin often has recruiting classes that rank near the bottom of the league, yet they're competitive every year. 


If all you need is “culture, cohesiveness and toughness, then why did Doc never make the tourney and finish 2-14 and 4-12”?  
 

I used Izzo as an example of one coach in the league. I could go down the list if you want. Most teams in the league get their pick of 4 and 5 star talent. And most can coach them up.
 

As a counter example, take former coach Chambers at PSU.  He got his players to play with as much toughness and grit as any team in the nation year after year. And in 9 season he made 0 NCAA tourney and 1 NIT tourney and was fired. Not enough talent. Toughness and culture and cohesion didn’t mean squat in the end. 

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3 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:


If all you need is “culture, cohesiveness and toughness, then why did Doc never make the tourney and finish 2-14 and 4-12”?  
 

I used Izzo as an example of one coach in the league. I could go down the list if you want. Most teams in the league get their pick of 4 and 5 star talent. And most can coach them up.
 

as a counter example, Take the former coach Chambers at PSU as an example.  He got his players to play with as much toughness and grit as any team in rue nation year after year. And in 9 season he made 0 NCAA tourney and 1 NIT tourney and was fired. Not enough talent. Toughness and culture and cohesion didn’t mean squat in the end. 

Again, I do not believe you have to choose between taking talent or taking tough kids with Hoiberg as your head coach. Just have to evaluate better.

And if you go back to my original comment that you're arguing, I just said I'd personally rather watch a gritty team scrap and fight than a more talented but softer team. Despite all you've said, you haven't convinced me otherwise. I would rather watch Doc's teams than Hoiberg's previous three teams. I think you and everyone else would agree with that. 

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10 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

Again, I do not believe you have to choose between taking talent or taking tough kids with Hoiberg as your head coach. Just have to evaluate better.

And if you go back to my original comment that you're arguing, I just said I'd personally rather watch a gritty team scrap and fight than a more talented but softer team. Despite all you've said, you haven't convinced me otherwise. I would rather watch Doc's teams than Hoiberg's previous three teams. I think you and everyone else would agree with that. 


that’s fair  I guess all I am saying is I am tired of choosing one or the other because in the end they both are going to lose way more than they win.  
 

But at least if you start a season with talented players, those talented players may or may not be mentally soft, etc. we don’t know until they get punched in the face. But at least there is a chance they end up being both talented and mentally tough  

 

in contrast, if you start a season with a team that is not talented, if winning games is the objective, then  it doesn’t matter whether they are mentally tough are not because either way they are going to lose way more than they win. 
 

and FWIW, I don’t know how anyone could watch the last 3 years and think NU had a lot of “talented” players on the court. 

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5 hours ago, NUdiehard said:


If all you need is “culture, cohesiveness and toughness, then why did Doc never make the tourney and finish 2-14 and 4-12”?  
 

I used Izzo as an example of one coach in the league. I could go down the list if you want. Most teams in the league get their pick of 4 and 5 star talent. And most can coach them up.
 

As a counter example, take former coach Chambers at PSU.  He got his players to play with as much toughness and grit as any team in the nation year after year. And in 9 season he made 0 NCAA tourney and 1 NIT tourney and was fired. Not enough talent. Toughness and culture and cohesion didn’t mean squat in the end. 

 

It matters if you're so deficient in terms of toughness and culture that you're losing to teams with no stars. Is this an assistants/players problem or a Fred Hoiberg problem?  Credit Bill Moos for us spending the next 1-2 years figuring that out.

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